Halloween!

[JRSut1000]

Off-limits? As you will see, there is a variety of opinions on the forum concerning this.

 

[PaladinValer]

Off-limits? As you will see, there is a variety of opinions on the forum concerning this.

Theologically, they are.

 

[JRSut1000]

Again, NOT necessarily. Theology isn't always truth after all. And I'm so glad I didn't just take for granted everything I was taught growing up.

 

[Johnny Todd]

Mods, if there is a better location for the thread, please move.

October is here!

I love your feedback on the halloween issue. Should christians celebrate it?

We've not celebrated it for years, but I'll be doing something a bit different this year. I'm going to go out trick r treat'n with the kids. Then we'll come home and eat candy and have an evening bible study. Im going to use it at as an opportunity to study the origins and history of death in the Bible. We'll also study what the Bible has to say about Satan, Angels (fallen and holy), and the occult. Pumpkin pie will also be in there somewhere.

Halloween has always confounded me as a christian. I've not been very clear on how to deal with it. I certainly didn't want to be judgmental about it toward my neighbors, so we always gave out candy. I then did some in-depth study on the holiday and found out some interesting things—primarily its american roots. The rest of the world is fairly ignorant about it. And its roots in ancient pagan rituals are a bit tenuous I discovered.

But the way I look at it, why let such a fun holiday go by? Why not use it? Physical death is very important in Christian theology. There is a very real sense in which we can celebrate it.

Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’: “Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field. In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return.”

And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Without physical death, we could never become bodily united with God! Physical death releases us from one contract, so we can enter into a new one. The way I look at it, we've christianized the Dec. 25th holiday, why not this one? And it does have christian roots. Halloween literally means holy evening.

Now, I fully respect those whose consciences don't allow them to do what I'm doing. I hope this thread doesn't get combative and judgmental. I would love your thoughts and feedback, regardless of where you stand on this issue.

I think Christians should try to incorporate every pagan holiday and pagan god into the church as a means to try to draw unbelievers in the true faith of Jesus Christ........wait a minute thats what the Catholic church tried........I think we all can see how that turned out

 

[JRSut1000]

Like I said, that which is unholy can't suddenly be deemed holy...

 

[Izzy23]

Like I said, that which is unholy can't suddenly be deemed holy...

I agree. You can put any spin you want on Halloween but it is what it is and I would think that it's fairly obvious.

 

[Freedom63]

I agree. You can put any spin you want on Halloween but it is what it is and I would think that it's fairly obvious.

 

[PaladinValer]

Again, NOT necessarily. Theology isn't always truth after all. And I'm so glad I didn't just take for granted everything I was taught growing up.

If theology isn't about truth, then you are promoting Nihilism by default.

No one is suggesting taking things for granted. The problem is, Jesus makes those Jewish festivals null and void. Any participation in them in any sort of a religious sense is theologically contradictory for a Christian.

Either Christ is the Messiah or He is not. You cannot have cake and eat it too.

I think Christians should try to incorporate every pagan holiday and pagan god into the church as a means to try to draw unbelievers in the true faith of Jesus Christ........wait a minute thats what the Catholic church tried........I think we all can see how that turned out

It worked out well.

Particularly since Lutherans continued in the same essential beliefs and practices...so much for the idea that (Vatican) Catholicism = Paganism. Luther would be in arms...

Like I said, that which is unholy can't suddenly be deemed holy...

The salvation is impossible. You've just said so.

I agree. You can put any spin you want on Halloween but it is what it is and I would think that it's fairly obvious.

I know the history of Halloween. There is nothing wrong with All Hallow's Tide, nothing wrong with the secular Halloween, and for Lutherans and Protestants, there is nothing wrong with Reformation Day. Only Neopagan celebrations are forbidden.

 

[JRSut1000]

Well, there's a lot I'd like to respond to that, but I'm not going to go off-topic. It's just fruitless. I'm no nihilist and it's perfectly fine to disagree with your stance on many of these issues, it doesn't mean I'm wrong or a theological 'outcast' because my theology is different.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I agree. You can put any spin you want on Halloween but it is what it is and I would think that it's fairly obvious.

The eve before All Saints Day.

That's what it is.

And it is what it is.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

It depends what you mean by 'harvest' festival. I have to agree with you that most of the time, it still is pagan. Unless of course you mean the fall feasts of Yahweh (Yom Teruah, Sukkot, etc).

All Saints Day? Very iffy in my opinion!

How is a day set aside to remember the lives of those Christians who have gone before us, so that we can reflect upon the victory and glory of our Lord Jesus as witnessed in their lives "iffy"?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[JRSut1000]

Easy, all saints day is a day in which we do more than 'remember' former believers. It deals with purgatory, day of the dead, etc. Really, we need to focus more on the living already. "God is a god of the living, not the dead". But it's a halloween debate, not 'all souls day'. So this is all I'll say on this particular topic.

 

[sk8Joyful]

October is here!
I love your feedback on the halloween issue. Should christians celebrate it?

We've not celebrated it for years, but I'll be doing something a bit different this year. I'm going to go out
trick r treat'n with the kids. Then we'll come home and eat candy
and have an evening bible study.
Im going to use it at as an opportunity to study the origins and history of death in the Bible.
We'll also study what the Bible has to say about Satan. Pumpkin pie will also be in there somewhere.

Your poor children are to be pitied: Imagine,
you're INTENTionally comfuzling their poor minds with:
Pumpkin pie, then Satan, then candy, & then death!!

I hope before they grow up, someone is able to Empower them with HEALTHY-emotions , about
a really FUN-way to PRAISE God on Halloween...

 

[PaladinValer]

Easy, all saints day is a day in which we do more than 'remember' former believers. It deals with purgatory, day of the dead, etc.

1. Look at my and ViaCrucis' icons: I'm an Anglican and he's a Lutheran. Our churches reject the doctrine of purgatory as authoritatively defined by the Vatican Catholic Church. In addition, both our churches accept All Hallow's Tide as a Christian festival and in fact All Saint's Day is considered a principal holy day in the Anglican Church. It is also celebrated, though on a different day, by the Eastern Orthodox and the Oriental Orthodox who also reject purgatory as above.

In other words, it has nothing to do with purgatory. None. Otherwise, we'd reject it as well on theological grounds. Since we don't, then you're arguing a Straw Man.

2. You're arguing a Straw Man in one other way: you are equivocating the Vigil of All Saint's Day with one localized secular variant of Halloween. Illogical. You'll find absolutely nothing like the Dia de los Muertos celebratings going on at Vigil of All Saints' liturgical service.

Really, we need to focus more on the living already. "God is a god of the living, not the dead".

Exactly our point. Death is powerless and defeated thanks to Jesus. Otherwise, the logical conclusion is Jesus is a false Christ.

But it's a halloween debate, not 'all souls day'. So this is all I'll say on this particular topic.

Halloween comes from the Middle English Alholowe'en. From this, we get All Hallow's Evening: the Eve of All Hallows, or, taken further down the etymological road, All Saints. It is, literally, the Evening before All Saint's Day, or the Vigil of All Saints'. Therefore, to talk about Halloween is to talk about, literally, not just the secular festivities (fun, I might add), but also the Christian Vigil of All Saints'.

 

[JRSut1000]

I guess hwere I'm coming from is pretty fundamental in a sense, I reject most holidays that arent found specifically in Scriptures. It's just my stance.

Apologies concerning purgatory, didnt know that aspect.

 

[PaladinValer]

I guess hwere I'm coming from is pretty fundamental in a sense, I reject most holidays that arent found specifically in Scriptures. It's just my stance.

The Trinity as understood and dogmatized by the Nicene Creed isn't directly found in the Holy Writ either.

Sola Scriptura, as traditionally understood by its original theological creators (the Lutherans), does NOT teach that, if it isn't in the Holy Scripture, it is wrong. Ask any Lutheran. Luther had a respectful view of Saints, and while he agreed that the Bible didn't outright promote venerations or petitions, he also recognized it didn't speak about those activities being wrong either. On such matters, he left it up to an individual's consciousness. He was bothered with the extremes that did occur at the time, not the universal general. That is why Lutherans today accept the major decisions of the 7th Ecumenical Council.

Apologies concerning purgatory, didnt know that aspect.

I must say that is the first time in a long time someone has admitted and apologized for such a mistake. Consider it very graciously accepted with much respect.

I would encourage you to remember that many traits specific to the Vatican Catholic Church are not shared by other Apostolic Churches. Be weary and be sure to always research before you bring up anything "Catholics" do: Transubstantiationism, for example, is particular to their church and isn't officially taught by Lutherans, Anglicans, either Orthodox Communion, etc, yet all of these do believe in the Real Presence officially.

 

[JRSut1000]

And I also don't see the trinity the same way either, good example! Yeah I dont admit I'm wrong as often as I should, but now and then...

 

[ViaCrucis]

On the Lutheran calendar we usually find Reformation Day on October 31st, however All Saints is still November 1st, here is the prayer from the ELCA website for the 2010-2011 liturgical calendar, Year A:

"Almighty God, you have knit your people together in one communion in the mystical body of your Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. Grant us grace to follow your blessed saints in lives of faith and commitment, and to know the inexpressible joys you have prepared for those who love you, through Jesus Christ, our Savior and Lord, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, now and forever."

I'm hard pressed to find much that's objectionable here.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[MasterpieceMesias]

Dude you are actually one of the cooler peeps here. Don't stress on what people think of you

I don't really give a crap what folks think about me I'm just curious as to why people are so overly superstitious about halloween.

 

[JRSut1000]

Not superstitious, just know what's involved. It's a day that celebrates death not life so I wont be a part of it nor will I allow my kids to be either.