Halloween

[twin.spin]

Every year it seems that this concern comes to the surface at about this time of year ...

and every year (so it seems) the day after Halloween it's "the christmas decorations are out way too early...what happened to Thanksgiving? !! "

Is it my imagination or does the Halloween apprehension thing originate from (how should one say this) from the Baptist sector of the Christian community?

\\\\\\\\

I wonder..... if Valentines Day be considered the same way, would women (my wife included):

A: till us men\husbands

B: have a meeting on how to get us men\husbands

C: still want us men\husbands take so much time and ...

• go to the card isle (preferably Wal-Mart)
• look at the .99 cards ... till somebody working there ask if we need
• buy some leftover chocolate from Halloween ....
• buy leftover roses from the Rose Bowl ....

And then turn on the TV and

 

[Studeclunker]

A valid point about the Baptists. However, I suppose you haven't heard about the witch's covens and Satanist Masses that occur on Oct. 31st here in California. Not a rumour, verifiable fact. Also, have you seen the decorations for sale in Wally World for Halloween? People are decorating as much for Halloween as for Christmas. The latter may have dodgy origins, but at least it's supposed to be about Christ. For Valentine's day, the worst I've seen is cheezy decorations and someone running around in a really dorky looking Cupid costume. More a nod to the Florists than anything else.

 

[twin.spin]

A valid point about the Baptists. However, I suppose you haven't heard about the witch's covens and Satanist Masses that occur on Oct. 31st here in California. Not a rumour, verifiable fact. Also, have you seen the decorations for sale in Wally World for Halloween? People are decorating as much for Halloween as for Christmas. The latter may have dodgy origins, but at least it's supposed to be about Christ. For Valentine's day, the worst I've seen is cheezy decorations and someone running around in a really dorky looking Cupid costume. More a nod to the Florists than anything else.

I have heard of them and don't want to give the impression that it's not real. We can't expect that if every possible objection to Halloween or whatever secular (which is what I consider Halloween) "celebration" is out there is gone, that Christian kids will not be exposed to some devilish plans.

There has to be at some point a trust factor that God protects in greater measure than the devil attacks. Speaking in general terms, most kids are not aware of the dark side of most issues, so why implant a different view of life rather, instead why not say:

Psalm 118:24
This is the day the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it.

My brother used to live in Fallbrook, so I know of the issues you face. But we used to hear of that happening in rural WI in the 60's --- and I can tell you that if my parents would not have allowed us to go it would not have stopped anybody from doing Satanist Masses or the occasional animal sacrifices found in forests around rural WI.

I can remember one Nov 1 that in front of our church door there was a Satanic circle left drawn on the concrete with candles left behind (That was in Milwaukee). The pastor didn't sound the alarm bells of "the sky is falling". It seems that adults back then understood the reality of the adult world and the innocence of the childrens world.

I see no fruitful purpose in taking away the innocence of the childrens world from children. Adult problems will come soon enough...

But that's just one guy's opinion

 

[Flipper]

My daughter is going to be Piglet. My son is going to be a horse. Got the costumes as hand me downs from my sister-in-law. No reason to go all out when they don't really know what the holiday is. Also, they don't like most candy so guess who gets their treats?

My church and a lot of other places around here do Trunk or Treat. Different groups of people, in the case of my church the small groups, youth group, etc., decorate a select trunk of one of the cars in the group, and the kids in tasteful costumes come around and get treats, and Bible verses and crosses, etc. Sometimes instead of a trick, they have to say a Bible verse.

 

[seajoy]

I like what your church does, Flip. I expect to see photos of your cuties, by the way.

 

[Kalevalatar]

In our neck of the woods, halloween is considered to be marginal American "humbug" not part of our culture & tradition, and I sincerely hope it stays that way. We observe All Saints' Day, which is a quiet, solemn national holiday spent with one's immediate family, both past and present.

As to the question whether participating in the halloween hullaballoo would be considered spiritually questionable or some such, nah. Today, halloween is first and foremost a commercial celebration not unlike Valentine's/Mother's/Father's Days, to make the cash registers sing ka-ching by selling loads of (ultimately) unnecessary halloween-themed stuff to the consumers. Now, if one has kids, I recognize that these kind of family traditions of doing stuff together hold importance. I'm much more worried about the way the two main Christian seasons of importance, Christmas and Eastern, are being sacrificed in the same altar of commercialism, the commercial coulisse threatening to take precedence over the Gospel.

 

[porterross]

We LOVE Halloween and I can hardly wait to have our décor shipped over. There's just not the same excitement over it here and it's unfortunate, 'cause it can be such good fun and I miss seeing the little ones wandering around the neighborhood. So cute!

Fat Tire is ale, Stude. My father loves the dark stuff, but it's a bit too strong for my taste.

 

[RadMan]

Every year it seems that this concern comes to the surface at about this time of year ...

and every year (so it seems) the day after Halloween it's "the christmas decorations are out way too early...what happened to Thanksgiving? !! "

 

[Flipper]

I like what your church does, Flip. I expect to see photos of your cuties, by the way.

Unfortunately in the place of trunk or treat this year, the weekend of my kids' baptism, my church did a huge barbecue/festival style fundraiser for a local Iraq war veteran who was injured and is now a quadriplegic. I'm not complaining, it was for a good cause.

Other churches are doing it, and I think my son's school is doing it, so we'll find one. We will probably also do the traditional trick or treating thing. I feel like what many of the others say, it's a commercial holiday.

That all being said, I did post on Facebook a reading of "The Raven" (one of my favorite poems) by various actors - Vincent Price's version is my favorite. Further, our friend the professional clown is working at one of the big haunted houses this year (Lemp Mansion for anyone familiar with St. Louis and it's haunted history), and we are working on securing a babysitter so we can go check it out and have the honor of being scared senseless by him.

 

[Flipper]

I'm much more worried about the way the two main Christian seasons of importance, Christmas and Eastern, are being sacrificed in the same altar of commercialism, the commercial coulisse threatening to take precedence over the Gospel.

That is definitely a problem everywhere. Being new parents, we are figuring out how to best celebrate. "Santa" happens to be "Grandpa" in our family so we can't completely get out of that. We do have the option of having two Christmases and two Easters for our kids. Our kids are from Ethiopia, which follows the Julian calendar, and Orthodox holidays. I'm wondering if it would work to have the commercial stuff on one of them, and spiritual stuff on the other. Our church, of course, only follows one of the holidays and Santa seems to do so as well, so that can make it difficult.

 

[Studeclunker]

Flipper, I'm confused by this statement:

We do have the option of having two Christmases and two Easters for our kids. Our kids are from Ethiopia, which follows the Julian calendar, and Orthodox holidays. I'm wondering if it would work to have the commercial stuff on one of them, and spiritual stuff on the other. Our church, of course, only follows one of the holidays and Santa seems to do so as well, so that can make it difficult.

I understood that you've adopted these children (maybe I've misunderstood??). That they are a part of your family. If you aren't E.O. then what are you celebrating, or even considering their holidays and calendar for?

Forgive me please, your children are no longer in Ethiopia. You also seem to be doing a great job, so please don't take this as a criticism. All the same, wouldn't it be best for your children to see you steadfast in your faith rather than compromising?

Are you perhaps being forced into this kind of thing by the adoption agency? I just don't get it.

Rad, I love the Cartoon! LOL, Merry Thanksgivoween, gotta love it! Even the Santa in the window looks a bit confused! Oh my, isn't Fifth Avenue a mess(LOL)?

 

[Flipper]

The holiday thing is just something I'm throwing out to think about in figuring out what OUR family's traditions are going to be. Don't worry, we will be celebrating Christ's birth on December 25 and His resurrection on date that is Easter on our calendar. I just would like to find a way to incorporate the other days if at all possible. Shoot, Christ was more than likely born in August, which isn't on either calendar.

No one is forcing me into anything. Huh?

Of course the kids are going to be American as soon as we readopt them here, but I strongly believe we should keep some Ethiopian traditions because they are also in fact Ethiopian. To do otherwise is almost like child abuse to these kids. It's part of their identity and who they are - they can be our kids and Christian and American and Ethiopian. What's so wrong with that?

It's almost like you are equating them being Ethiopian as though they were not Christians. They actually come from a strong Christian, albeit charismatic, background. Frankly as they are learning more English (and refusing to use Wolayta which saddens us), we're finding they have a much stronger grasp on who Christ is than we ever would have thought. They won't say their Wolayta prayers, but they do pretty well in English with little to no prompting from us.

I'm not seeing where you think I'm compromising, unless you have an issue with Santa playing a small roll in the holidays - frankly another thing we were thinking about is finding a way to incorporate St. Nicholas day (December 6, I believe) as the date "Santa" comes - I know quite a few families who do that. Like I said, Grandpa is Santa in our family - I can minimize it or maybe make it a different day, but I can't tell Grandpa no. The way I see it, the extra dates are there, why not use them? Why not celebrate Christ's birth and resurrection every day while we are at it.

I think I need to just start keeping my mouth shut about this stuff. I'm not good at explaining myself and everyone seems to misunderstand me.

 

[SonOfTheWest]

I have no problem celebrating Halloween. Some holidays are purely cultural, some are purely religious and some are a bit of both.

 

[seajoy]

I think I need to just start keeping my mouth shut about this stuff. I'm not good at explaining myself and everyone seems to misunderstand me.

We are all learning - please keep talking, Flip.

 

[Kalevalatar]

That is definitely a problem everywhere. Being new parents, we are figuring out how to best celebrate. "Santa" happens to be "Grandpa" in our family so we can't completely get out of that. We do have the option of having two Christmases and two Easters for our kids. Our kids are from Ethiopia, which follows the Julian calendar, and Orthodox holidays. I'm wondering if it would work to have the commercial stuff on one of them, and spiritual stuff on the other. Our church, of course, only follows one of the holidays and Santa seems to do so as well, so that can make it difficult.

I can so relate. With kids, the moral/educational principle stuff is complicated enough; with multicultural kids, even more so. It's about my (and DH's) Christian POV vs. the "mainstream" stuff kids inevitably get from their peers, commercials, telly, internet etc. They way I see it, the dilemma is, is it worth depriving my kids of the more commercial stuff of Christmas (Santa, presents, cards, brownies/gnomes, Rudolf etc.) in the name of my religious belief vs. their feelings of being "left behind", peer pecking etc. My personal answer has been no, it's not worth if. The trauma for my kids (for being "different", standing out, possibly for decades to come) would surely be worse than my compromising some of my principles that do not even matter that much.

Let me just say that I ADMIRE the way you are absolutely committed to your kids, and you seem to be doing just fine & (text book) right with your Ethiopian-American young ones. In Finland, at least, the New Year seems to be of a day of importance to our domestic EO minority as well as to the Russian (EO) tourists who flock here. So, a modest suggestion to your consideration: how about keeping our Christmas (24/25th Dec) "(Lutheran)Christian," and then allowing more commercial/secular celebration to take place at the New Year (with the rest of us Lutherans, when it's more a secular celebration for us). The "calendar year," following the movements of the Moon, after all, is nothing but a convenient human agreement to arrange our day-to-day business.

ALL the best to you & your young family!

 

[Studeclunker]

Sorry, Flipper, I didn't mean to offend. It just sounded like there was some outside pressure of some sort. My intention wasn't to accuse you of anything, just to express my own simple-minded confusion.

As to Christ being born in July or August... Isn't Israel south of the equator? That being the case, December would be High Summer, wouldn't it? Therefore Shepherds being out on the hills at night wouldn't be at all unusual. But what do I know?

 

[TCat]

Our church is celebrating All Saints with truck or treat at the church wide picnic/chili cook off right after services on Sunday morning. Generally Truck or treat is Halloween night but this time will be different and hopefully awesome! We have a dunk booth, pie eating contests, bounce houses, they have trucked in snow before (this is Arizona), and made the day a lot of clea wholesome fun!

 

[WildStrawberry]

I think that for most people who equate Hallowe'en with evil neglect to realize that

Hallowe'en = candy and dressing up and "come as you aren't" night.

and

Samhain (pronounced Sow-en) = the Witches' Fall High Sabbat

They both just happen to fall on the same evening.

It's true that many of the Hallowe'en traditions, bobbing for apples, passing out candy, pumpkin carving and jack o'lanterns, stem from the traditions that came when "magic" was still "real" in people's minds.

But for all intents and purposes, Hallowe'en just isn't that anymore. Ask any random kid on the street what Hallowe'en is all about and they'll tell you straight out "Candy" and "Dressing up".

I happen to love Hallowe'en for the fun and the spooky. There's nothing better than allowing yourself to be scared silly in a protected scenario. I enjoy the traditions and the sheer joy of the kids as they race from house to house to see if this year the Smith's are still giving out the BIG candy bars or if Miss Kae is going to give out soda again this year like she did last year.

It saddens me that people don't take the time to learn about the truths behind the "Holy Days" (holidays) and then be able to discuss them with their kids so that those kids can learn and understand what is real and what is fiction.

Yes, evil exist. Demons exist. I've seen them and have been in situations where I could have been hurt badly, but my parents were wise enough to bring me up in such away that I didn't need to be afraid of them. I had (have) Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and NOTHING is stronger than that.

Kae

 

[alexnbethmom]

I think that for most people who equate Hallowe'en with evil neglect to realize that

Hallowe'en = candy and dressing up and "come as you aren't" night.

and

Samhain (pronounced Sow-en) = the Witches' Fall High Sabbat

They both just happen to fall on the same evening.

It's true that many of the Hallowe'en traditions, bobbing for apples, passing out candy, pumpkin carving and jack o'lanterns, stem from the traditions that came when "magic" was still "real" in people's minds.

But for all intents and purposes, Hallowe'en just isn't that anymore. Ask any random kid on the street what Hallowe'en is all about and they'll tell you straight out "Candy" and "Dressing up".

I happen to love Hallowe'en for the fun and the spooky. There's nothing better than allowing yourself to be scared silly in a protected scenario. I enjoy the traditions and the sheer joy of the kids as they race from house to house to see if this year the Smith's are still giving out the BIG candy bars or if Miss Kae is going to give out soda again this year like she did last year.

It saddens me that people don't take the time to learn about the truths behind the "Holy Days" (holidays) and then be able to discuss them with their kids so that those kids can learn and understand what is real and what is fiction.

Yes, evil exist. Demons exist. I've seen them and have been in situations where I could have been hurt badly, but my parents were wise enough to bring me up in such away that I didn't need to be afraid of them. I had (have) Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and NOTHING is stronger than that.

Kae

if i could give you a standing ovation, i would!! on all points!!

 

[Johnsgal]

I don't like Halloween, my dad died on Halloween, my first husband was buried the day before and my first husbands best friend was buried two days after Halloween last year. I do remember one year when our church made magnets with a cross on it out of small tiles and we all handed those out with a tract and candy.