Halloween?

[Shubunkin]

When my kids were little, I dressed them as Moses and Noah, and they enjoyed that. The older they got it was Star Trek uniforms, or a monkey and a leopard, but nothing "evil" because our pastor of the Lutheran church strongly recommended it. Well, it can be fun, and it doesn't have to be "evil" stuff.

Orthocat, that sounds like a lot of fun. I think you are about as twisted as I am.

 

[Matrona]

IMO, the whole Western fundamentalist paranoia is simply tilting at windmills, energy that could (along with Potternoia, evolutionoia et. al.) be better spent feeding the poor.

Oh, goodness, yes. If I dressed up as Hermione for Halloween, I guess I'd go to hell for twice as long.

 

[OnTheWay]

When my kids were little, I dressed them as Moses and Noah, and they enjoyed that. The older they got it was Star Trek uniforms, or a monkey and a leopard, but nothing "evil" because our pastor of the Lutheran church strongly recommended it. Well, it can be fun, and it doesn't have to be "evil" stuff.

Orthocat, that sounds like a lot of fun. I think you are about as twisted as I am.

I completely agree, if you aren't comfortable with monster costumes there are a billion other choices. Though I do have to say I would find a vampire costume less questionable than say the "mammogram man" one I saw at one of those Halloween seasonal stores last year.

 

[eoe]

I think I might have to play some of the darker sounding byzantine chant this halloween.

 

[rusmeister]

Well, I'm the old poop that doesn't like Halloween (as such). I'm all for a fall celebration with bobbing-for-apples, masquerades and what-not - there is nothing wrong with those aspects of Halloween. I think all of the celebratory dressing up and decorating with symbols of evil and death is wrong, though.

There won't be none o' that in God's Kingdom.

 

[OnTheWay]

Well, I'm the old poop that doesn't like Halloween (as such). I'm all for a fall celebration with bobbing-for-apples, masquerades and what-not - there is nothing wrong with those aspects of Halloween. I think all of the celebratory dressing up and decorating with symbols of evil and death is wrong, though.

There won't be none o' that in God's Kingdom.

The seasons have their own "natural themes" one might say. Fall is a pretty natural time to reflect on death, and what it means. To be able to look at it and celebrate is really the most Christian thing one can do. The pagans that started Samhain were terrified of it, just like a modern atheist would be terrified at the prospect of his unavoidable demise. Anything can be taken too far. I tend to think, however, that the extreme materialism of the Christmas season is far more spiritually dangerous than taking your Halloween celebration to a place that is a bit too dark.

 

[FlyFast]

Noone thinks Halloween is bad in here do they?

I'll be a dissenting voice and say that I don't like Halloween and I think it is "bad". The satanic and occult themes, glorification of death and darkness, etc. all make me very uncomfortable.

 

[rusmeister]

The seasons have their own "natural themes" one might say. Fall is a pretty natural time to reflect on death, and what it means. To be able to look at it and celebrate is really the most Christian thing one can do. The pagans that started Samhain were terrified of it, just like a modern atheist would be terrified at the prospect of his unavoidable demise. Anything can be taken too far. I tend to think, however, that the extreme materialism of the Christmas season is far more spiritually dangerous than taking your Halloween celebration to a place that is a bit too dark.

I disagree (re - celebrating death). Christ came to destroy Death. Death is our enemy, and the essence of the "skeletony"* aspects of Halloween are to celebrate that enemy. I do understand what you mean as far as not having an inordinate fear of death, of course, and that for us, believers, there is hope beyond death. But "skeletony" emphasizes the fear of death and says nothing about our hope.

Also, what you folks say about Christmas is quite true, but it actually distracts from the question of Halloween. If I say "I have a toothache" and someone says, "Having your head cut off hurts worse.", that may be quite true, but doesn't help me figure out what to do about my toothache. (Sorry - I've been reading Chesterton a lot lately.)

*under which I mean all of the gruesome aspects of Halloween decor/costumes/games relating to death.

 

[Prawnik]

I consider much of what is "Halloween" to be about things that are "fiction". The costumns are often about fictional characters. The "traditional" way "witches" and so forth are shown are more fiction than fact. (Ask any wiccan and they will tell you the same thing I suspect.)

With all due respect, the way Wiccans depict pre-modern witches and witchcraft is basically fiction as well, in the sense that Wiccans attach a history to their faith that bears very little resemblance to what we know about ancient religious practice.

On the other hand, Wicca lines up very well with what some 19th century British Romanticists believed. There lies the true genesis of Wicca.

 

[Ioan cel Nou]

I hate Halloween and I always did. It has nothing to do with religion, though. I certainly won't object if my kids want to dress up or go to parties when they're older but I draw the line at trick or treat (it's a completely foreign tradition here, anyway - one of those unwelcome transatlantic invaders). My father would never allow us to go (not that I was bothered, though my younger brother was) because he considered it begging and I, frankly, agree with him, which is unusual to say the least. We don't get on at all, which is why I think this is the first time I've ever mentioned him here. I do give sweets to the kids who turn up at my door, because I don't like to disappoint children who are unaware of my curmudgeonliness, but I'm certainly never going to accompany mine while they beg at other people's.

James

 

[Petronius]

I hate Halloween and I always did. It has nothing to do with religion, though. I certainly won't object if my kids want to dress up or go to parties when they're older but I draw the line at trick or treat (it's a completely foreign tradition here, anyway - one of those unwelcome transatlantic invaders). My father would never allow us to go (not that I was bothered, though my younger brother was) because he considered it begging and I, frankly, agree with him, which is unusual to say the least. We don't get on at all, which is why I think this is the first time I've ever mentioned him here. I do give sweets to the kids who turn up at my door, because I don't like to disappoint children who are unaware of my curmudgeonliness, but I'm certainly never going to accompany mine while they beg at other people's.

James

It started to penetrate here in the capital city , probably also in some bigger cities. Here I bean both Prague and Bucharest.
I do not know exactly what are the children doing, but if you consider that what they can be alsoo considered as begging, what is then in Romania when children go to sing Christmas carols on Christmas' Eve or go "cu Plugusorul"or "cu sorcova" ?

 

[Ioan cel Nou]

It started to penetrate here in the capital city , probably also in some bigger cities. Here I bean both Prague and Bucharest.
I do not know exactly what are the children doing, but if you consider that what they can be alsoo considered as begging, what is then in Romania when children go to sing Christmas carols on Christmas' Eve or go "cu Plugusorul"or "cu sorcova" ?

Maybe this is just me, but I see a distinction between turning up on someone's doorstep and singing for someone in the hope that they will, in efect, pay you for it and turning up and doing nothing but asking for something nonetheless. The latter I see as begging, the former not (and you get carollers here too).

James

 

[choirfiend]

Where I live, it's exepected that you give a "trick" in order to get a "treat," so children tell a joke in exchange for their candy.

Though I have to admit, I dont see much difference in the distinction.

 

[Ioan cel Nou]

Where I live, it's exepected that you give a "trick" in order to get a "treat," so children tell a joke in exchange for their candy.

Though I have to admit, I dont see much difference in the distinction.

Here the trick part is generally taken as 'give me a treat or I'll play a trick on you'. That, to my mind, is rather like making a demand with menaces. I would not object anywhere near so strongly the alternative view that you describe.

James

 

[Orthocat]

Orthocat is my yoda!!


kamikat

"So you want to be Jedi?
Help you I can, yes!!!"

 

[latinorthodox]

the thing i don't like about halloween and other import holidays is their commercial aspect.i'm used to the idea of every holiday having it's simbolism(doesn't the word come from "holy day"?or something).anyway,the whole thing didn't even have as much success as valentine's day,that seems to be making more sales every year.
so,although it may seems weird,i really don't find that whole "pagan origins" dangerous.because those origins weren't even about exalting death if i am correct,but about scaring away bad spirits,a very common practice in ancient religions.i would say making death a central aspect of it all had,once again,more to do with marketing than with spiritual purpouses.
pagan roots are numerous in romanian folk holidays,including dressing up in a scary way(bear or other beasts) in order to put evil spirits on the run.People still keep these traditions,mostly in rural areas,but needless to say,they aren't pagans.
i don't have any problem with the catholic version of the holiday,either.funny anomaly(hope not heresy)is that orthodox christians celebrate it,too,in a less official way,here,in transilvania.it's a small influence that occured under foreign domination.We call it "Luminatie"(from the word "lumina"-"light")and basically everybody goes and lights up candles in the cemeteries.The priest performs a short service over there.At night the cemeteries are full of lightIn my town we do this on the 1st of november,but in other places it's on the 8th(St. Michael and Gabriel).

 

[Prawnik]

They do something similar for All Saints Day (November 1) in Poland.

I like this holiday very much, especially because, unlike most western holidays, there is nothing commercial to it, unless you count the vast numbers of candles and flowers consumed.

When I lived in Warsaw, the Orthodox celebrated All Saints Day as well, perhaps in part the result of living in a land that is 95% Roman Catholic.

 

[latinorthodox]

that must be itthe great thing is that both cemeteries in my town(yes,i know it sounds weird to say "great" and "cemeteries"in the same sentence...)are on top of two hills.so the lights look really beautiful at night..

 

[Matrona]

All Saints Day (ours, not theirs) is one of the first few Sundays after Pentecost, isn't it? I think it's the first and the second is local saints, but I don't have the calendar in front of me.

 

[OnTheWay]

I disagree (re - celebrating death). Christ came to destroy Death. Death is our enemy, and the essence of the "skeletony"* aspects of Halloween are to celebrate that enemy. I do understand what you mean as far as not having an inordinate fear of death, of course, and that for us, believers, there is hope beyond death. But "skeletony" emphasizes the fear of death and says nothing about our hope.

I don't think what I meant came off as clearly as I would have liked. It's not to say that death is so much an object of celebration, as the fact that people can take such a subject in a light hearted way is because of Christ. As believers we can have confidence that death is not the end, to paraphase St. Paul, "where is thy sting death, where is the victory of the grave?" It's not a celebration of death, but a celebration in the face of death because it is no longer an object of fear.

Also, what you folks say about Christmas is quite true, but it actually distracts from the question of Halloween. If I say "I have a toothache" and someone says, "Having your head cut off hurts worse.", that may be quite true, but doesn't help me figure out what to do about my toothache. (Sorry - I've been reading Chesterton a lot lately.)

I agree with you to one extent. For example I am ever tried of hearing half baked defenses of Islam on the basis that Christians did X, X, and Y. On the other hand the fundie/evang protestant world devotes much time to "Halloween" is evil and yet is always after "more Christmas."