Half of the picture is missing

[comana]

I did ask a few customers how we can survive now the pay has been moved up and they appeared to genuinely believe that company medical was a free plan and it would take care of us.

So I think I'm suffering from a growing feeling that people mean well but don't put in enough effort to find out if their efforts are doing good or harm.

Most of them know that the newspapers are pretty useless but believe them anyway.

You make an excellent argument for universal healthcare of some sort in the US. Expecting employers to provide health insurance as a benefit is not working for many reasons.

 

[MorkandMindy]

Employers should take care of their employees. The fact that yours didn't is the problem, not the public who were putting pressure on them.

Your first point is one I agree with but unfortunately the situation is that they don't need to supply free health care so I found out about the company plan and it isn't very expensive but there's a 3,200 dollar deductible and a 100,000 dollar cap which is reasonable because no one who works in a store is worth more than that,

but that a 1,400 increase in pay meant I would be paying out 3,850 for a health care plan not as good as Medicaid meant I would not have enough income to survive on.

 

[Pommer]

…

 

[MorkandMindy]

I get both depressed and find myself looking at too many things I don't have accurate data on when dealing with health insurance, and often thinking 'this can't be right', get 2 dollars too much and you are suddenly 4,000 dollars worse off,


so I raised in this thread on a different issue. I've had a multitude of short discussions where educated well-informed liberals have stated emphatically that raising the minimum wage would be good for everyone.

As well as being well-educated and well-informed I know a few of their salaries and they are high which means they are unlikely to know much about living in the bottom 20% of the income range where I am, so they are voting on the basis of well-intended guesswork.

what worries me is that we may have a lot of well-intended people making decisions affecting the future of the country, on the basis of a lot of wrong assumptions.

 

[comana]

I get both depressed and find myself looking at too many things I don't have accurate data on when dealing with health insurance, and often thinking 'this can't be right', get 2 dollars too much and you are suddenly 4,000 dollars worse off,


so I raised in this thread on a different issue. I've had a multitude of short discussions where educated well-informed liberals have stated emphatically that raising the minimum wage would be good for everyone.

As well as being well-educated and well-informed I know a few of their salaries and they are high which means they are unlikely to know much about living in the bottom 20% of the income range where I am, so they are voting on the basis of well-intended guesswork.

what worries me is that we may have a lot of well-intended people making decisions affecting the future of the country, on the basis of a lot of wrong assumptions.

I appreciate you sharing your experience and perspective. What do you feel would be the best policy/law changes that would benefit yourself and others who fall into similar situations?

 

[iluvatar5150]

I know enough that poor working conditions will not keep the store staffed.
It might take a while for management to learn better.

This. And you don’t have to work frantically. If the store is understaffed, let the management take the hit. They’re the ones who have to hit performance targets, not you.

10.00 PH (per hour, sorry about the abbreviation, I'm so used to it I didn't think)

10.00 PH to 11.00 PH this was the one that caused me to complain a lot and eventually leave. It made me ineligible for medicaid.

It moved me from 16,500 per year, about the highest income eligible for medicaid to 18,000 per year not eligible. Fortunately President Obama had provided the bronze plan for such a situation. It is only 14,388 dollars a year and deductibles it appears average around 4,000 each year, so medical care will be just a little more than my total earnings. There may be more to it than that but I was having trouble keeping up with my job and eternally changing schedule

What happened to the subsidies that are supposed to cover most of that premium?

 

[variant]

A store that genuinely can't afford workers at 10.00 per hr pay wouldn't be increasing it's pay unless it was forced to.

So, I doubt your story, either that they genuinely can't afford it, or that they did it when they couldn't afford to.

 

[Chesterton]

That is misleading for what is actually going on. Bernie Sanders defends unionized staffers amid clash with campaign over $15 an hour - CNNPolitics

They are salaried and not hourly workers. The cut in hours was a cut from 60 to 40 hours so that their salary would be commensurate with a $15/hr wage.

"Sources from both the campaign and the union confirmed that the collective bargaining agreement, ratified in May, set a base pay rate for field staff at $36,000 a year. That salary works out to under $15 and hour based on the 60-hour work week. But in addition to the pay scale, the CBA also provides full health insurance without a premium, mental health benefits, parental leave options, a gas card for use while on the job and other options not traditionally available to low-level campaign staff."

It wasn't misleading. I said the same thing as the article you linked. Anyway, the article says Bernie, who publicly shames Walmart and others, is whining about the union going public. That's more cringey than watching Elizabeth Warren drink beer.

 

[essentialsaltes]

It's always interesting seeing the little differences in people who learn how to speak American in Europe.

 

[tall73]

This. And you don’t have to work frantically. If the store is understaffed, let the management take the hit. They’re the ones who have to hit performance targets, not you.

...but then they fire you for not meeting performance goals. And you then have a bad recommendation for your next job. Besides, it is the worker who is helping the customer who gets the abuse because that is who is in front of them when they are impatient.

 

[iluvatar5150]

It wasn't misleading. I said the same thing as the article you linked. Anyway, the article says Bernie, who publicly shames Walmart and others, is whining about the union going public. That's more cringey than watching Elizabeth Warren drink beer.

Your description was entirely misleading. Actually, it wasn't even misleading - it was flat out wrong. @MorkandMindy described a situation in which a store was faced with paying higher hourly wages to its employees, so in order to keep labor costs steady, they cut hours and forced employees to do more work in those hours.

What Bernie did was cut his staffers' unpaid overtime.

 

[tall73]

A store that genuinely can't afford workers at 10.00 per hr pay wouldn't be increasing it's pay unless it was forced to.

So, I doubt your story, either that they genuinely can't afford it, or that they did it when they couldn't afford to.

Well they didn't up overall pay. They increased pay and then cut staffing.

And he already explained that the store was getting bad press due to customers complaining that people working there were on medicaid.

On a small scale it is similar to Amazon who gave into pressure from Sanders and others online to raise their wage to 15 an hour. But then they dropped stock options, and increased productivity goals again (though they were already high).

So the employees that stayed for any length of time didn't wind up ahead financially, as the stock options were one of the better benefits, and were more worn out than ever.

But Bezos got the publicity win, and Bernie laid off of him for a while.

 

[iluvatar5150]

...but then they fire you for not meeting performance goals.

They can't fire everybody. And... I don't know when the last time you worked retail was, but it's hard to get fired if you show up and don't do anything egregious.

And you then have a bad recommendation for your next job.

What corporation does more than confirm employment history anymore?

Besides, it is the worker who is helping the customer who gets the abuse because that is who is in front of them when they are impatient.

Yep. And you direct them to complain to a manager.

 

[tall73]

They can't fire everybody. And... I don't know when the last time you worked retail was, but it's hard to get fired if you show up and don't do anything egregious.

That all depends on the town and how many people there are willing to work the job for that wage. If there are no other options for low skilled workers they don't worry about demanding a frantic pace, because you have no where else to go. Or the places you might go have already instituted the same.

What corporation does more than confirm employment history anymore?

Not sure, the last one I went to they checked up on such things, but perhaps many do not. However, if you switch jobs too often they do note that.

And if you do get medial care through your job then with low paying jobs it might take 60 or 90 days to again qualify, leaving you either at risk or paying for expensive COBRA.

Of course in his case he didn't get care there. But for many it is a factor in not just leaving when the employer makes such a demand.

Yep. And you direct them to complain to a manager.

Who may not be there, and complaining customers usually complain.

 

[variant]

Well they didn't up overall pay. They increased pay and then cut staffing.

And he already explained that the store was getting bad press due to customers complaining that people working there were on medicaid.

On a small scale it is similar to Amazon who gave into pressure from Sanders and others online to raise their wage to 15 an hour. But then they dropped stock options, and increased productivity goals again (though they were already high).

So the employees that stayed for any length of time didn't wind up ahead financially, as the stock options were one of the better benefits, and were more worn out than ever.

But Bezos got the publicity win, and Bernie laid off of him for a while.

11 dollars an hr doesn't get you off of Medicaid.

 

[tall73]

11 dollars an hr doesn't get you off of Medicaid.

Wouldn't that depend on the state guidelines, size of family, etc.? Some expand medicaid which expands the percentage of the federal poverty line and some do not.

 

[variant]

Wouldn't that depend on the state guidelines, size of family, etc.? Some expand medicaid which expands the percentage of the federal poverty line and some do not.

So, some percentage less of them would be on medicaid? What's your point?

Most of the general problems that exist at 9 dollars an hr still exist at 11.

A two dollar an hr raise is good at fixing problems that cost about 4000 per year.

No longer qualifying for medicaid is probably a net negative.

Which should say something about the general state of our healthcare system (and health safety net) if people get mad at a raise because they are trying to live in enough poverty to qualify for Medicaid.

 

[Chesterton]

Your description was entirely misleading. Actually, it wasn't even misleading - it was flat out wrong. @MorkandMindy described a situation in which a store was faced with paying higher hourly wages to its employees, so in order to keep labor costs steady, they cut hours and forced employees to do more work in those hours.

How is that different?

What Bernie did was cut his staffers' unpaid overtime.

First, where'd you read that, and second, what is "unpaid overtime"? In plainer English, it seems that would have to translate as either "volunteer work" or "forced labor".

 

[variant]

First, where'd you read that, and second, what is "unpaid overtime"? In plainer English, it seems that would have to translate as either "volunteer work" or "forced labor".

Unpaid overtime is what working as a salaried position is like.

 

[tall73]

So, some percentage less of them would be on medicaid? What's your point?

Most of the general problems that exist at 9 dollars an hr still exist at 11.

Yes, most of the general problems are the same. But he referenced a particular problem that was caused by his salary going up.

He indicated that the amount they paid him meant he no longer qualified to receive medicaid, so he lost that benefit.

He gave figures of around 16,500 in post 13 for his salary before that. The federal poverty line for one person is $12,490. If you are in a state that expands medicare it can increase the threshold up to 133 percent of the poverty line.

Eligibility | Medicaid.gov


The Affordable Care Act of 2010 created the opportunity for states to expand Medicaid to cover nearly all low-income Americans under age 65. Eligibility for children was extended to at least 133% of the federal poverty level (FPL) in every state (most states cover children to higher income levels), and states were given the option to extend eligibility to adults with income at or below 133% of the FPL.

So 133 percent of the single person line would be just over the 16,500 dollar figure he quoted. If he got a raise that boosted his yearly earnings that would then put him over the line as he described.