Ha! How can a god exist!

BlakeMichael said:

This post was actually in disagreement with the notion that God sends people to Hell, Mike.

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So then, are you saying that the answer is "yes"?

The point is, God came in the flesh to save sinners, not to condemn to Hell.

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But the Bible tells us that He will do just that.

The Bible is absolutely right. By God's own authority we enter into life or death, but this is not built entirely on grace alone, but the God-given choice of man.

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Actually, the Bible does say that we're saved by grace alone.

It also says that faith without works is dead, and without faith, we cannot possibly please God.

Yes, I am saying 'yes'. Salvation is a gift, however, and we willfully take it or deny it. That's our part. Then, growth is essential.

We should take this to Theology forum, Mike. As much as I like a good debate, this isn't the place at all.

I'm not saying God doesn't condemn to Hell. I'm saying that we don't have some iron-fisted dictator in Heaven. God is rich in mercy, divinely patient and longsuffering towards us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

... And if they don't, He acts out of divine justice.

I won't reply to more here. PM me or start a thread in Theology.

Lord have mercy.

OP... Jesus acknowledged that this world is under the control of Satan when dealing with him in the wilderness for forty days.

There is a war going on at all levels, from the physical, environmental, molecular, cellular, mental, financial, political, religious, spiritual, and emotional. Bottom line is that God is the good guy from whom all good things flow. The devil is the evil one from whom all wickedness reigns.

God's solution to this war, is first gathering all His people together in truth and faith. The second step is to cleanse them from the sin the entraps them. He starts with the mind, heart, and soul of the person. By free choice, they have opened up their heart to Him, asking Him to come into their lives and lead them.

This is the step of faith, for it takes that leap to even consider talking to "God", let alone believe He exists. There is evidence still left on this earth, from the plants that still grow, to the kindness and unselfish love still in the heart of some people. He calls those His remnant. Reason being there are not too many around.

Your family has been war torn in a battle that you can only see the devastation physically. Long before this came about, the Lord was involved. He is a gracious gentleman and only goes where He is invited. He is not one to give His gifts to those who think He is like Santa Claus and is only there to gratify them in their present state. Every move the Lord makes is calculated towards saving us.

You need to pray for a face to face meeting with God. He promised that He will come and talk with you one on one in Rev 3:20. Understand you are asking to speak with the Holy One of Israel. The Bible is full of instructions on how to meet God and what to expect. The Bible is also full of individuals (prophets) who have met God and what they experienced. He is that same God as the one who walked the earth as Jesus.

When you meet with Him, ask Him to explain all the devestation around you. He will show you every effort He made, the battle the raged, the part you played in all this and why the outcome. He has it all written down in a book which He calls the Book of Life.

Get real with Him and He will get real with you.

I'm sorry to hear of your grief, but when you say this proves God cannot be loving, you are wrong, He is loving in that He continues to hold creation together for us simply because He is good to everyone, this is universal grace, we all deseve death and damnation, i certainly know i do but Father doesn't deal with us as we deserve ie instant death and eternal punishment but He holds together a world for us, with ups and downs and many problems, (we musn't forget the earth is cursed!) but when you really think about it who really is behind the suffering? (with all due respect to you as i do not know the details of the situation you are facing) we could all have access to much better medical treatment and the roads could be policed a lot better, human fault, human sin is behind most suffering not God

God exist he is all around us for more information on him you can read the bible, but if you really want to learn about him pray to him he will answer if you open but gotta make sure you heart is right while doing it b/c God can see your heart

ClueMeIn said:

My dear aunt has died of cancer, my brother was killed in a car wreck, and I have an acute form of leprosy. How can some loving god exist? It can't! All of the suffering on this planet is because some higher being loves me? Ha! Again, ha! Anyone who believes this has lost his sanity.

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I am so sorry you are suffering like this.

God never promised things would go great down here on earth, so I'm not sure what, about bad things happening, makes you think there is no God.

You can think God away all you want, but that doesn't mean He still isn't here. The only time that life will be perfect is in Heaven. Jesus is preparing a place for us right now.

Jesus loves you, and wants you to be saved. Our earthly burdens are very tough, but God promises to be with us through all of it, until we reach our Eternal home.

Praise be to Him who has overcome the world!

seajoy

ClueMeIn said:

My dear aunt has died of cancer, my brother was killed in a car wreck, and I have an acute form of leprosy. How can some loving god exist? It can't! All of the suffering on this planet is because some higher being loves me? Ha! Again, ha! Anyone who believes this has lost his sanity.

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Some famous writer wrote years ago something along this line: "...A man is not crazy because he's lost his mind. He's crazy because he's lost everything but his mind..." (I'm thinking that the author I loosely quoted was a Russian mystic named Nicholas Berdeyev).

Therefore if one does not believe that God exists, you have an extremely poor, and limited source for solace from, and in the suffering you say which fills this world.

"...Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the father of mercies, and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our afflictions, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God."

You're seeking the closeness, and the sweetness that only can come from Almighty God. Grieving and pain is real, but then, so is the comfort and peace coming from God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Most Holy Spirit .

I've had relative and friends who have died from cancer, alzyheimers, old age, strangulation from food, and I myself hav e been close to death on more than one ocassion.

I cannot with words convey to you the mercy and love of God for those who suffer; but I know that I've had to look past the immediate pain I've felt, to realize the sweet balm of the oil of God's own love for me as an individual.

God did create a perfect world without suffering but that was before adam and eve sinned. when they sinned satan became involved in the picture he is the one who lies, causes pain, sickness and reaks havoc. Have you ever read the Book of Job? job had everything taken away from him and destroyed but he kept his faith and in the end it worked out for him. everyone goes through struggles and hard times that's because this world is no longer perfect heaven is perfect, but earth is filled with good and evil. and you said alot of family members died from cancer honestly that has more to do with us and our choices then God. you never had people dying of cancer 100 years ago or so and if so it was very rare now it's very common the statistics now are 1 out of every 2 males will get cancer and 1 out of every 3 females will get cancer sometime during there lives. Do you know what causes cancer the chemicals in our air from things WE use, the chemicals in our water, the chemicals that WE put in our food to preserve them or anything processed. did you know the majority of fruit nowadays unless says organic on it are genetically engineered foods. we aren't eating and drinking the same things God had created for us so many years ago we have polluted everything causing these problems for ourselves.

Jesus died for us 2006 years ago right? mmkay that means tens of thousands of years before that every primitive humans went to hell? gonna get burned forever. 0h noes!? If god sent jesus to save sinners then logicaly he would of had to send him after the first human sinned. Doesnt make sense.

Other than that if god is omnipotent why doesnt he heal and take care of every one and give every one a equal chance to go to heaven? Perfectly fair right? he didnt so hes unfair and imperfect and malevolent. Heres a simplistic question? If you had the power would you help every human in pain or would you let them suffer even tho your responsible for what theyre going throu? You would help them of course. original sin doesnt make sense. If heaven is perfect and god is perfect he logicaly couldnt do any thing imperfect; But he created satan to be perfect and he sinned, while in perfect heaven.

A perfect clock designer couldnt make a clock that didnt work right unless it was intentional. Remember that god says he created evil himself numerous times in the bible also.

You need to meet God. He can explain what is really going on behind the scenes and why He is allowing things to happen that we see and experience. Get real with God and He will get real with you. Then the way you look at the world after meeting with Him will look entirely different.

deadmanxzxz said:

Jesus died for us 2006 years ago right? mmkay that means tens of thousands of years before that every primitive humans went to hell? gonna get burned forever. 0h noes!? If god sent jesus to save sinners then logicaly he would of had to send him after the first human sinned. Doesnt make sense.

Other than that if god is omnipotent why doesnt he heal and take care of every one and give every one a equal chance to go to heaven? Perfectly fair right? he didnt so hes unfair and imperfect and malevolent. Heres a simplistic question? If you had the power would you help every human in pain or would you let them suffer even tho your responsible for what theyre going throu? You would help them of course. original sin doesnt make sense. If heaven is perfect and god is perfect he logicaly couldnt do any thing imperfect; But he created satan to be perfect and he sinned, while in perfect heaven.

A perfect clock designer couldnt make a clock that didnt work right unless it was intentional. Remember that god says he created evil himself numerous times in the bible also.

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A savior was promised to Adam and Eve at the time of the fall into sin. Though they did not know who He would be, they believed in the promise, and therefore were saved.

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are 3 persons in One God, and have been around forever. Jesus came down as a man to save us.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived: God is not mocked.

seajoy

Yes yes, I already know that I used to be christian and I actually read the bible. First god had complete control over what adam and eve would do. He designed how they work and created them. He knows every hair on our heads. He knows everything we will do and want to do.
So why would he design them to be vulnerable to sin if he didnt want them to? That equals error, or intentionally making them that way. Second: does that mean if I believed the flying spagheti monster touched me with his noodly appendage and I was cleansed of all sins ive done. I will get into heaven? What about the millions of primitive men who never had religion? For tens of thousands of years humans have been going to hell because jesus hadnt come yet? or they didnt know the jesus story?

deadmanxzxz said:

So why would he design them to be vulnerable to sin if he didnt want them to? That equals error, or intentionally making them that way.

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That is what free will is. He has given us the freedom to choose to love and believe in him, or not. It's about not taking advantage of the power he has. He created us (humanity) with every need met, and gave us the choice to accept, or rebel. We chose to rebel.

Without sin, what would make us stronger? What would we have to choose from? If he healed everyone, forgave everyone, removed all suffering, what point is there to anything?

You know, I'm coming to believe that not everyone has freewill.
How about someone who's severely mentally disabled?
Or someone who's blind, deaf and dumb?
They can't choose can they?
What happens to them?
Answers with a Biblical reference most apprectiated.

deadmanxzxz said:

Yes yes, I already know that I used to be christian and I actually read the bible. First god had complete control over what adam and eve would do. He designed how they work and created them. He knows every hair on our heads. He knows everything we will do and want to do.
So why would he design them to be vulnerable to sin if he didnt want them to? That equals error, or intentionally making them that way. Second: does that mean if I believed the flying spagheti monster touched me with his noodly appendage and I was cleansed of all sins ive done. I will get into heaven? What about the millions of primitive men who never had religion? For tens of thousands of years humans have been going to hell because jesus hadnt come yet? or they didnt know the jesus story?

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You say that you "used to be a Christian", and yet you don't know the purpose of the law, or that Paul in Romans tells us that God has made provisions for those who've never heard the Gospel to have an opportunity to be saved?

These are pretty elementary teachings. I'm pretty sure I could ask any kid in my JrHigh class and they'd be able to explain it.

Why is it that everytime somebody says, "I used to be a Christian", they inevitably follow it up by showing that they have no clue what Christianity teaches?

MikeMcK said:

Why is it that everytime somebody says, "I used to be a Christian", they inevitably follow it up by showing that they have no clue what Christianity teaches?

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Because in most cases their houses are built on sand, and not the rock.

Jesus died for us 2006 years ago right? mmkay that means tens of thousands of years before that every primitive humans went to hell? gonna get burned forever. 0h noes!? If god sent jesus to save sinners then logicaly he would of had to send him after the first human sinned. Doesnt make sense.

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God is much bigger than the box we try and place Him in. You think God's hands were tied simply because He hadn't come in the flesh yet? Blasphemy.

Before Christ, men were judged according to their heart, and their works. After His death, He descended and preached to the souls in 'prison'. None died in vain, Christ destroyed Satan on the Cross entirely, not in part.

"For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, in order that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, 20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water."

"When He ascended on high, He led captive a host of captives, and He gave gifts to men. 9 Now this expression, 'He ascended,' what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things...

Try that Bible again.

matthew241006 said:

You know, I'm coming to believe that not everyone has freewill.
How about someone who's severely mentally disabled?
Or someone who's blind, deaf and dumb?
They can't choose can they?

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Why would they not have free will? They still make decisions, don't they? Maybe not on the "same level" we do, about what to eat for lunch, or whether to walk to work or drive, but barring a purely vegetative state, some kind of free will still exists. Or am I not understanding what you're asking? Do you mean their in/ability to decide to follow Christ or not? I just want to make sure I understand what you're asking.