• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Ha! How can a god exist!

RonnyRulz

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2006
2,524
116
✟3,325.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Private
Friend, if you're interested in hell, God, justice, etc. I suggest reading my comments on the "Hell" thread in this part of the forum.

Don't listen to people who say God sends people to hell, no, God sends people to heaven.

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=28104093#post28104093

The first post is on Hell/Heaven, and the second is on Justice. If you're interested, please take a look, it's something that the Living God taught me that I couldn't ever have possibly taught myself. I thought completely different things earlier in life.
 
Upvote 0

Lincoln0010

All times local.
Sep 19, 2006
318
10
49
Pennsylvania, but maybe moving to El Paso.
✟517.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
What kind of leprosy do you have? What kind of treatment are you getting? I can't imagine what that must be like.

I believe God allows suffering for a reason however... some people suffer, however, and die a meaningless death. I believe the scriptures says something along the lines of "God does this so that men will fear Him." In Proverbs it says "the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom".

I don't know what else to say. I hope that you are being treated and are comfortable. If not, maybe there is something we could do for you....
 
Upvote 0

Breaking Babylon

Who is this King of glory?
Site Supporter
Jan 1, 2006
10,931
459
38
West Virginia
✟80,874.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Good points, all of you. I am sorry if I came off as hostile. It seems that many Christians know their faith better than I had predicted. Now THAT is interesting.

Well that's not surprising, honestly, considering polls say 80% of America is 'Christian'. I'd be surprised if 5% were actual 'practicing' Christians. There is more to this than saying "Oh, I believe in Jesus!"

2 Tim 2:15 "Study to show thyselves approved unto God, being a workman not ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

1 Peter 2:2 "Desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby."

It has never been said "Say a sinners prayer and go to church every Sunday, talk and think about God, and you're okay."

The Bible speaks clearly about those who honor God with their mouths, but who's hearts are far from Him.

Not to mention "Not all who say 'Lord, Lord' will see Heaven."

I forgive you. Please forgive me, and those who have shown you such a... shallow side of Christianity. Oh, that we were perfect, but we aren't. I am a sinner beyond compare.

May God bless you abundantly. I wish you all the best, friend.
 
Upvote 0

Calminian

Senior Veteran
Feb 14, 2005
6,789
1,044
Low Dessert
✟49,695.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
You contradicted yourself! Your bible says that God made a perfect world, Calminin! A world without suffering! I know more about that book than you do, obviously.

He did. Death and struggle were not apart of the original design. But human freedom was. He then cursed the world after the fall but did so in hope that men might return to him. Jesus depicted God as a father who's son went astray, but later, after much suffering, returned.

Luke 15:11 Jesus continued: “There was a man who had two sons. 12 The younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me my share of the estate.’ So he divided his property between them. 13 “Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14 After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15 So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16 He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything. 17 “When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired men have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18 I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired men.’ 20 So he got up and went to his father. “But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him. 21 “The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ 22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate.

This is the God I know and worship. This is the God who came to earth and suffered and died that He might relate to those also suffering, and provide salvation for them. He knows your suffering in a way no one else here does. And best of all he has conquered suffering and death, the last enemy (1Cor. 15:26).
 
Upvote 0

Calminian

Senior Veteran
Feb 14, 2005
6,789
1,044
Low Dessert
✟49,695.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
My eyes are welling up right now. You all care. Thank you for answering my question.

You are in our prayers. You can count on it. I pray that God delivers you from this disease. Even more importantly I pray that He would open your eyes and heart to the truth of the gospel. I don't know what grounds you in your atheism, but I can tell you with conviction it is wrong, even irrational. Obviously the problem of evil and suffering are among these grounds. Hopefully some of those objections have been alleviated. We'd love for you to stick with us if at all possible. We'd love to see this terrible time in your life produce the greatest moment of your life, returning to your Creator who waits with open arms (Luke 15:20-24).
 
Upvote 0

Lincoln0010

All times local.
Sep 19, 2006
318
10
49
Pennsylvania, but maybe moving to El Paso.
✟517.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Jesus is good, and kind, and caring. He came to save, not to condemn, "and your sins he will remember no more". That's what it's all about brother. Jesus won't hurt you. He wants to forgive you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EmbracingHim
Upvote 0

Rafael

Only time enough for love
Jul 25, 2002
2,570
319
74
Midwest
Visit site
✟6,445.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Earlier, I heard you say that God made the world perfect, but that is not really what the Bible says. The Bible said that God said, "It was good", after He created it. Perfection could not be attained without God first giving mankind a choice between good and evil in the garden. Love is not a forced issue, but is something that only exists when freely given and responded in kind. I know there are arguments against, so this is my opinion. Risking evil and mankinds fall for loves sake opened the door for evil to triumph, and sin and death are actually the results of that triumph; but God has the final victory by giving His own life in the flesh to satisfiy the justice that good requires, and through that work done by Jesus at the cross, we have no need to fear death. Nothing is ever lost to the Creator, as He has power over life and death - standing in the dimension of timelessness, eternity.
We, as men , do not really know so much about life or we would be able to make it by at least reverse engineering, but the mechanisms of life are just too complex - showing vastly more intelligence in design than we are capable of reproducing at this point in time. Someday, the Bible says that we will share in that knowledge with God as His family, knowing as we are known and being co-heirs with Jesus and His kingdom.
Mankind is responsible for its own choices and we all live in the world, suffering sin and death, because our father in the flesh, Adam, who fell under the curse that God said would happen if He ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We have all inherited the sin nature and death from Adam, but through the second Adam, Jesus, we all have access to new eternal life once again. Reach out in hope and faith to God and ask for His help. Nothing is beyond His reach, and He is full of loving kindness and mercy to those who will humble themselves and come to Him in a time of need.
 
Upvote 0

EmbracingHim

My foundation, my heart, our Rock, our Lord
Sep 3, 2006
1,745
98
California
✟25,081.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
And Christ Who is recorded in secular history as well as the Bible has suffered beyond that of your Aunt, brother and yourself. He was not foresaken and neither are you.

But of course you know this...otherwise, you would not start your thread out with 'ha' as if it was a brain storm that you have surmised. Pardon me and forgive me as I do not mean to sound harsh and I beg you read further.

Indeed, there is much suffering in this world, yet to point a finger at God would be false testimony.

Who have you saved today? Have you given your most prized possession to another lately?

This is what God did when He delivered His only begotten Son to you.

You can reject God if you so choose, but you will do this with an unclean conscious and it will haunt you (sorry to say), just as it does all who reject the 'only' 'perfect' love they will be offered in this life time.

This life is short. We all die and we all suffer. The point is to focus upon 'eternity' and not just today.

I pray for your sufferings and send the utmost sympathy not pretending to know how you must feel. If there was a contest for suffering you would be next to Job. In this I pray that you might hold Faith as God did not turn His back on Job, just as He has not turned his back on you.

You are loved whether you accept this love or not. I pray that you might accept God and that a cure might be found for you illness and that you might have peace in the knowledge that 'you' love him for Whom He is and for What He did first for the 'Body' of Christ together and that you might reach out to this Body with love in your heart for all the rewards and the chance at life given -- if only a second of joy -- is it not better than never experiencing this?


:hug: :prayer:


My dear aunt has died of cancer, my brother was killed in a car wreck, and I have an acute form of leprosy. How can some loving god exist? It can't! All of the suffering on this planet is because some higher being loves me? Ha! Again, ha! Anyone who believes this has lost his sanity.

Mike...is that a Marine Corps avator? :). (My dad was a Marine). The answer is that 'we' choose to live or die...God's work is complete. We make a decision upon death or life. Fiery Hell is not reserved for babies or those without choice as well. There is a third option 'death' and in scripture where it states that the dead is concious of nothing. Hell is for those desiring this (satanists and those who thrive off of destruction and wickedness and embracing their perverse ways).

God Bless. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: indagroove
Upvote 0

Breaking Babylon

Who is this King of glory?
Site Supporter
Jan 1, 2006
10,931
459
38
West Virginia
✟80,874.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
So then, is the Bible wrong when it tells us that God sends people to Hell?

This post was actually in disagreement with the notion that God sends people to Hell, Mike.

The point is, God came in the flesh to save sinners, not to condemn to Hell. It is God who ultimately sends to Hell, but it's the choice of man which gets one there. By seeking out one's salvation you're walking towards Heaven, by choosing to remain in sin you're walking backwards.

The Bible is absolutely right. By God's own authority we enter into life or death, but this is not built entirely on grace alone, but the God-given choice of man.

Forgive me.
 
Upvote 0

salida

Veteran
Jun 14, 2006
4,305
278
✟6,243.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
My dear aunt has died of cancer, my brother was killed in a car wreck, and I have an acute form of leprosy. How can some loving god exist? It can't! All of the suffering on this planet is because some higher being loves me? Ha! Again, ha! Anyone who believes this has lost his sanity.
Clue...

Bad things happen to good and bad people. Its a fallen world- this why that there is death and destruction.

Want to hear about my life for the last 5 years? Got laid off - soon lost my house. Then a few months later - got a serious medical condition but got cured. After I went though this fire - this made me stronger and closer to God. How? He has answered my prayers and I'm spiritually stronger and more like Him.

Now, we got a house again with more acreage, I'm cured and he is providing my needs. To become better spiritually - God puts us through the fire to purify us - it doesn't feel good at first but the end result is outstanding.
 
Upvote 0

RonnyRulz

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2006
2,524
116
✟3,325.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Private
Um...can you please quote scripture? I find this hard to believe, seeing as how God doesn't have to send people to hell. Hell is being without Jesus, and if you take away Jesus from me, I'm in 100% hell. If after that you sent me to a "lake of fire and sulfur" it would still be the same: 100% hell. A life not with living. An existence that's meaningless. You can't go past 100%. Being without Christ on earth is already 100% hell.

Saying that God will send people to hell that are already in hell is like saying "I'm going to goto my house." when you're already in your house.
 
Upvote 0

MikeMcK

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2002
9,600
654
✟13,732.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Republican
Mike...is that a Marine Corps avator? :). (My dad was a Marine).

Yes. It's the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor, feared by enemies of freedom and hippies all over the world.

The answer is that 'we' choose to live or die...God's work is complete. We make a decision upon death or life. Fiery Hell is not reserved for babies or those without choice as well. There is a third option 'death' and in scripture where it states that the dead is concious of nothing. Hell is for those desiring this (satanists and those who thrive off of destruction and wickedness and embracing their perverse ways).

God Bless. :)

The Bible never says that the dead are conscious of nothing. It tells us that we will fellowship with God in Heaven, which tells us that we will be conscious, or that we will curse God with wailing and gnashing of teeth, which tell us that we will be conscious.
 
Upvote 0