Guns

[TheUnwanted]

I agree, mentally unstable people should not be able to own firearms. As is the case in all states (as far as I am aware).

Really? Define "mentally unstable"? Now, what about stable but stupid, or stable but irresponsible, or stable but entirety of firearms safety knowleddge comes from watching Rambo movies people?

Because merely wounding someone who breaks into your home with possible intent to do your family harm is the better option?

Not this again... simple numbers... out of the several hundred thousand instances of people breaking into someone else's home every year, how many of them are "with intent to do your family harm"?

I didn't say picking fights then, pulling out a pistol was right or lawful. I said that no one should have to leave a place they have the legal right to be. How is that macho? Thats down right human respect. Sorry, but telling someone to back down and "retreat" from an unlawful agressor so the agressor's life is made safe is perverse.

Yeah, its macho. Goes to appropriate, proportionate response. If you hear someone breaking into your house, and your options are;
1. Get the family, go out the back door and call the cops from the neighbours
2. Go downstairs weapons hot, shoot everything that moves, including the cat, the neighbour from the through and through, and the confused old lady in the living room who forgets where she lives and wanders away from home

You tell me which is preferable?

 

[cuvkid]

If we have a choice between people being stabbed, and people being shot... you don't think we should go for the one where people are getting stabbed?

no I think that the world would be a better place if nobody killed or hurt anybody at all. I am just saying that because of the fall people commit murder, and if we didn't have guns we would have a harder time defending ourselves against the people who do. I am pro gun but anti violence if that makes sense

 

[TheUnwanted]

no I think that the world would be a better place if nobody killed or hurt anybody at all. I am just saying that because of the fall people commit murder, and if we didn't have guns we would have a harder time defending ourselves against the people who do. I am pro gun but anti violence if that makes sense

So... how do you reconcile that with the fact that far more people die in your country due to firearms accidents or domestic violence than at the hands of "stranger murderers"?

Just askin, cos on the face of it, it looks like you might not have considered all the facts.

 

[Stravinsk]

Learning firearm safty is one thing, but why make someone register their firearms? Why does the government need to know that I have one pistol or a few dozen rifles and pistols? If I had a background check, then I am "clean". I am not a threat, why should the government have such information?

Because it's possible to sell your unregistered firearms to people who cannot obtain them under the law.

It also makes it easier for the government to target you if, for whatever reason, an anti-constitutional gun restriction or recall is passed.

 

[armyman_83]

Really? Define "mentally unstable"? Now, what about stable but stupid, or stable but irresponsible, or stable but entirety of firearms safety knowleddge comes from watching Rambo movies people?

"Unsound mind is a term that denotes lunacy and insanity. Under law, a person with an unsound mind is considered incompetent to go to trial."

Not this again... simple numbers... out of the several hundred thousand instances of people breaking into someone else's home every year, how many of them are "with intent to do your family harm"?

Did you miss the point where I said "with possible intent". Even if they break into my house with the intent to just steal my goods, why should I take that chance? My family's lives are far more important to me than some lowly criminal.

Yeah, its macho. Goes to appropriate, proportionate response. If you hear someone breaking into your house, and your options are;
1. Get the family, go out the back door and call the cops from the neighbours
2. Go downstairs weapons hot, shoot everything that moves, including the cat, the neighbour from the through and through, and the confused old lady in the living room who forgets where she lives and wanders away from home

You tell me which is preferable?

Thats a very narrow view. How about Number 3?: Grab your weapon, tell your kids and wife to stay put and call 911, while you move toward the distrubance. Then, after having positive identification of a threat(and any "back drop" issues)--eliminate the threat.


Just because your willing to defend your family, your self, and your house doesn't mean you are going to spray and pray. And it sure as heck doesn't mean you should ever retreat. Sorry but I have a sense of honor. Criminals should run from the law abiding, not the otherway around.

 

[Allen1901]

Really? Define "mentally unstable"?

Adjudicated mentally defective.

 

[Im_A]

I voted:

I have shot a firearm before, and I believe gun ownership is a right.
I have shot a firearm before, and I believe gun ownership should be denied.
I don't own any firearms.
Pro Gun Control
Pro Gun Rights

 

[armyman_83]

Illegal firearm importation is a major issue. These guns (like the ones used in the UK) are mainly used for crimes. By having a system of registration, the police can quickly figure out if the gun used during the crime was stolen or figure out if these guns were illegal to begin with. This can eventually end trafficking by following these possessions to their source.

Or to continue to "cars" metaphor, I could hop in a Ferrari and then drive it home. How can it be stolen if nobody legally said it was theirs in the first place?

This sounds like the "government is controlling our lives", but it is in place for a reason.

As far as I am aware cars maintained on private propert are not subject to any registration or licensing requirements in most States. Background checks for previous drunk driving convictions, vehicular homicide, or even the possession of a drivers license are not preformed on car purchases. There are no storage laws for cars either.

Cars and firearms are different.

Registration is a one time fee so when it comes to cars its really a tax. Gun control isn't about guns, its about control.

Firearm registration often leads to firearm confiscation. This is unacceptable.

 

[cuvkid]

So... how do you reconcile that with the fact that far more people die in your country due to firearms accidents or domestic violence than at the hands of "stranger murderers"?

Just askin, cos on the face of it, it looks like you might not have considered all the facts.

It's a good question, and your right, in all honesty I don't know all the facts about gun control, I was never really big into the political point to it, I was just answering the question forming my own opinion based upon what the scriptures have to say about sin and violence. As I said before I am pro gun but anti violence. If it were up to me there wouldn't be any guns or swords or anything used to inflict pain on any one, but only in a perfect world, due to the fall we are all sinners and people are out there getting mugged and raped tortured killed, they even managed to make it so the children aren't left out with abortion. That being a factor set in play we as people with or without families should have the right to defend ourselves and if someones coming at me with a 12 gauge shot gun, my first first response isn't gonna be 'I'm gonna close my eyes and pray for this to go away' I'm gonna be ready, God hates violence but self defense is justified, as well as defending your family and the people God gave us to protect. I hope that answers your question for me. Your right to ask, you make a good point, and I am not trying to influence anyone with my bias opinion, I'm just stating what I believe.

 

[Lover_Of_Shoes]

PLEASE MARK ALL THAT APPLY




I was just wondering what people's thoughts are on Firearms.

I enjoy shooting and I am a firm supporter of the 2nd Amendment and self-defense. Just wondering what everyone elses views on the subject(s) were.




"A man with a gun is a citizen. A man without a gun is a subject."

Well, I hunt to live and live to hunt during rifle season for deer

 

[Blackguard_]

Its not an inherent right someone has because they're born.

It is. To say we have an inherent right to self defense and than say we don;t have a right to the best means of self defense, which presently is the handgun, is at best ridiculous.

I'll also go out on a limb here and say that while I believe there is a place for legal civilian firearms ownership,

What place do you think that is?
Things like useless (except for confiscation) registries and mandatory training and licening aside, what would you let civilians use guns for? Hunting and target shooting? Home defense? Concealed and/or open carry?

I firmly believe in the Castle Doctrine. In no state, as far as I am aware can you waste someone for just trespassing (unless they enter your home/car then it becomes something more--burglary).

No one should have a duty to retreat where they have the legal right to be. A law abiding person should never have to "retreat" from an unlawful agressor.

If we have a choice between people being stabbed, and people being shot... you don't think we should go for the one where people are getting stabbed?

Actually, in contrast to what even a lot of "pro-gun" people might say, I do not think guns are a sort of genie we can't put back in the bottle and while we might be better off if their were no guns, we have to deal with their existence.

A world with common civilian access to guns is a better world. It's a world where the strong and many can't prey with impunity on the weak and few. In a gun free world the the law of the jungle prevails.

Laws against decent people owning and carrying guns are barbaric and frankly, evil.

By having a system of registration, the police can quickly figure out if the gun used during the crime was stolen or figure out if these guns were illegal to begin with. This can eventually end trafficking by following these possessions to their source.

That's the theory, but it doesn't work in reality. Real gun registries have failed in the purpose of catching criminals.

Not this again... simple numbers... out of the several hundred thousand instances of people breaking into someone else's home every year, how many of them are "with intent to do your family harm"?

Right, not this again. The insane idea we should trust the good nature of the guy who broke into an occupied dwelling.
If he had no intention of hurting anybody, he would have broken in when no one was home.

It's not a chance worth taking that he isn't willing to hurt anybody. I'm aware that most burglars don't try to hurt anybody, I am also aware that many do.

So... how do you reconcile that with the fact that far more people die in your country due to firearms accidents or domestic violence than at the hands of "stranger murderers"?

Actually, firearm accident deaths are rare, and have actually gone way down as firearm ownership went up.

But yes, stranger murder is not the most common kind by all means, not just by guns. Most murders are gang and drug related or domestic violence.

But how does that change that there still "stranger" murders? Very many of them actually. How does that mean decent people should have their right to self defense abridged or removed?

What are we supposed to be reconciling, some morbid math where making it easier for violent criminals to prey on decent people is justified because it makes it harder for violent criminals to kill each other?

Banning guns would not make violent criminals and abusive signifigant others less violent. They'd just kill in different ways.

Also on domestic violence, many people are alive because they had a gun and didn't just rely on a piece of paper or the police to save them from a violent ex.

 

[TanteBelle]

PLEASE MARK ALL THAT APPLY

I was just wondering what people's thoughts are on Firearms.

I enjoy shooting and I am a firm supporter of the 2nd Amendment and self-defense. Just wondering what everyone elses views on the subject(s) were.

"A man with a gun is a citizen. A man without a gun is a subject."

Every man ought to have the right to defend himself or his loved ones without the law condemning him as the criminal! Over here, such is not the case; if you defend yourself, you're the one who'll end up fined or jailed!!! It's criminal!!!

I've been hunting before and would sure like to do it more often! I want my license before I do but I don't want to have to deal with the crap that goes with it! My Pa was a stockman, and back then, having guns (loads of them too!) was just a basic necessity for a stockman (still is in many ways!). He didn't have to have a license or to let folks in authority know how many he had and yeah, he was really ticked off when he had to surrender them because he didn't think it any of the governments business how many he had by getting a license. John Howard was the best PM we've ever had, but his greatest mistake was to disarm the nation!!!

 

[MacFall]

I own several firearms and practice with them regularly. As for gun rights, I don't believe in any special right to keep and bear arms; it is simply a necessary corollary of property rights:

1. The most basic property right is self-ownership.
2. The simplest expression of self-ownership is the right to life.
3. The right to life requires the right to defend one's life from that which would end it, just as it implies the right to consume food to prevent starvation.
4. The right of self defense requires the right to equip one's self to that purpose, just as the right of a person to consume food requires the right to equip himself to obtain, prepare, and consume food.

Therefore I support the right of every person to keep and bear arms, so long as in so doing they do not infringe upon the equal right of others to do the same.

 

[MacFall]

1. Get the family, go out the back door and call the cops from the neighbours
2. Go downstairs weapons hot, shoot everything that moves, including the cat, the neighbour from the through and through, and the confused old lady in the living room who forgets where she lives and wanders away from home

You tell me which is preferable?

False dichotomy. Not only are there other options, but the first choice is not a good one to begin with. What if they are between you and the door? What if there's more than one? What if you don't have neighbors? Furthermore, if you call the cops while a crime is in commission, you'll be lucky if they get there before your blood dries.

But there is a third option, and that's following basic gun safety (for which nearly all gun owners have a fervent respect, and of which most anti-gun people haven't the slightest clue).

The first rule of gun safety is as follows: Every gun is loaded, even when it's not. The second, which is more pertinent here is: Be sure of your target and what is beyond. Much further down on the list, once you've gotten the rules with concern for the safety of yourself and others out of the way, you might learn that IF YOU'RE SHOOTING AT EVERYTHING THAT MOVES YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HIT YOUR TARGET.

So basically, you're describing a brainless maniac who uses his gun the way my dog plays the piano. Congratulations, you win the Strawman of the Month Award. Quite a feat, considering that it's harvest season.

Finally, in the vast majority of cases where firearms are used to stop violent crimes, no shots are ever fired. Think about that for a while.

 

[MacFall]

Well, I hunt to live and live to hunt during rifle season for deer

...HOW U DOIN'?

 

[LoneSheep]

I believe in the right to self defense. Since guns are the normal defense weapon these days, then I support gun ownership.

It's easy to watch the news and hear about all these shootings at the workplace, suicides, etc., and think that if stricter gun laws were in place it wouldn't happen. I don't believe that is the case. The real issue is that people think killing others will solve their own problems. If it wasn't guns it would be poison, bombs, knives, or whatever they can get their hands on.

 

[Lover_Of_Shoes]

...HOW U DOIN'?

I'd be better if I was home and could hunt.... I miss my 100 acres of hunting land and pink 30/30....sad sad sad.

 

[TwistTim]

An old Cliche but true "Guns Don't kill People. People kill People."
As a guns right advocate I want to commit on something that was said on page 1...

username ceh85 said: "
Originally Posted by armyman_83

"A man with a gun is a citizen. A man without a gun is a subject."
​

Change 'gun' to 'vote' and I agree with you

"

""
without the freedom to defend yourself from a tyrannical government do you really think a vote matters at all?
Once they have taken away the right of people to own guns, what will be left to you?
Oh you may have some rights in the first years, but slowly overtime, the powerful will get more powerful while those without power will get abused, and trodded down... don't believe me? look at the former Soviet Union, look at China, N. Vietnam, N. Korea, The Muslim world....

This is why the 2nd Amendment was created.... and it was never in Thomas Jefferson's or any other founding father to have it mean a Militia they had those, and in those days it was understood such was to be maintained apart from private defense...

also to the poster who said the best thing to do when someone breaks in is to run to your neighbor... (I forget if you were a man or woman) when someone who is stronger than you and wants to force himself upon you should you just lie there and take it and then call the police? or should you fight back?

maybe as he starts to tie you up, you ask him what his intention is? "Oh mr. nice honest robber, I have a gun I might like to use, if you are going to hurt me.. are you? no? ok, I won't shoot you then"
really? In what world would that be acceptable? and if they are committing the crime of breaking and entering, with obvious intent to steal...why would they be honest about their intent to hurt you or not?

And I am not proposing that you go into a situation guns akimbo.... but take a few seconds to a minute to gather your loved ones, gauge the situation and engage the appropriate controlled response....

 

[lost-sheep]

I havent read all the 4 pages but this is my stance.

I own and carry weapons. I NEVER EVER WANT TO USE THEM AGAINST ANY HUMAN FOR ANY REASON however I am prepared* to protect my family, myself, and others. (*as prepared as one can be)

Several stories have come out where where a armed citizen has saved many lives by responsible using a weapon against an armed bad guy.

There are statistics that prove armed citizens reduce crime rates. Australia and Brittan, lets not forget Chicago as well, have outlawed most guns and crime rates have sky rocketed. If a bad guy isnt sure if a victim has a weapon or not he is less likely to commit a crime, if he knows that the victim absolutely isnt armed there is no reason why the bad guy would back out.

It also needs to be pointed out that prior to WWII, Hitlers Germany banned all weapons because citizens dont need to be armed if there is a strong military. Hitler took power and did what ever he wanted because citizens didnt have any means to overthrow him and his military.

There are a few college campuses that allow weapons. If you look at all the college shootings there has NEVER been a mass killing on any of those campuses.

Weapons in responsible citizens hands do more good then bad.

 

[JCFantasy23]

I put

Have not fired a firearm and believe people should have the right to own
I dont own any firearms
Pro gun rights