Gunman Murders at Least 10 in Buffalo

[Danthemailman]

Why do democrat states and communities want voting rights for illegals?

The answer is obvious.

 

[RDKirk]

I'm guessing by that, they mean "White Conservative Christian" (or someone who's willing to kowtow to what White conservative Christians want).

This topic gets extremely messy in the US.

US is a unique country in that it's a nation founded on a set of ideas rather than on some sort of ethnic or racial identity. For instance, one can "become an American", I could move to Japan, live there for 20 years, and nobody would consider me to be Japanese.

Incidental overlap obfuscates the situation. Some Americans see people from other countries coming here (with different sets of values), and fail to make the distinction between the values themselves vs. the immutable characteristics the people happen to have, and start to treat them interchangeably or attribute one to the other.


That's one aspect that other countries (even ones that are far more progressive than the US) have understood is that without some sort of common social fabric or shared set of ideas, it's going to be a rough road. Which is why a lot of the more progressive countries have far stricter immigration requirements than we have.

The rub is that those countries don't have any sort of claim to being a "melting pot" or a "place where anyone can come and live how they see fit"...that still is our "claim to fame" so to speak. If we implemented the type of strict immigration requirements that places like France, Finland, Sweden, or Japan have, a lot of people would be opposed to that and say "that goes against what this country was founded on!" (and they'd be right)

It's tough to balance the "open door"/"anyone can come and be a part of this" mentality with the type of social cohesion a nation needs in order to function with minimal conflict.

The US would have to abandon the fairly recent ethnic diversity tolerance and go back to pressing Anglo-American culture adoption.

Social culture in America needs to be in accordance with the dominant Anglo culture in the deep essentially that defines concepts such as justice, honor, truth, and morality. The dominant Anglo culture isn't perfect by a long shot and it needs a lot of tinkering, but it is functional. It's a boat that floats.

There are other cultures that are too different in those deep essentialities, frankly, to co-exist with this functional society.

About 20 years ago, there was a case in Nebraska of a Saudi Arabian immigrant selling his two young daughters to another Saudi Arabian immigrant. State officials got wind of it after the school got suspicious about their sudden disappearance. The issue went to court and the defense of these Saudi Arabian men was, "This is our culture, and we have a right to practice our culture." The jury of Nebraska citizens did not accept that defense, nor should they have. They said, "Not here."

Diversity adherents lie to themselves. They don't really want deep-down cultural diversity. We don't want multiple definitions of "justice." We don't want multiple definitions of "truth" or "honor." We don't want the Saudi Arabian versions here, we don't want the Chinese national versions here, we don't want the Nigerian versions here, we don't want the Hindu versions here. And many others, including some continental European concepts. People who come here with those deep elements of foreign cultures will have to keep them suppressed.

The US does not need and cannot survive with anything more than surface-level cultural diversity.

 

[durangodawood]

No it's not that difficult cause they want as many in as possible. What are they doing to keep them out?

And it's already been done before. Show me the democrats that do not support citizenship for illegals?

Why do democrat states and communities want voting rights for illegals?

I'm asking for evidence of a policy. Not speculation.

 

[durangodawood]

....Diversity adherents lie to themselves. They don't really want deep-down cultural diversity....

Thats a little harsh. Most diversity adherents just want diversity within the cultural mainstream, which is still a distant goal in various arenas.

Great post other than that tho.

 

[ottawak]

Social culture in America needs to be in accordance with the dominant Anglo culture in the deep essentially that defines concepts such as justice, honor, truth, and morality. The dominant Anglo culture isn't perfect by a long shot and it needs a lot of tinkering, but it is functional. It's a boat that floats.

That is arguable, but the real problem arises when Anglo culture is made a part of religious orthodoxy, which is what we are seeing now.

 

[wing2000]

That sounds pretty close.

Have you heard this speech from Biden?

Are you threatened by the fact that white Americans will be a minority?

 

[stevil]

This topic gets extremely messy in the US.

US is a unique country in that it's a nation founded on a set of ideas rather than on some sort of ethnic or racial identity. For instance, one can "become an American", I could move to Japan, live there for 20 years, and nobody would consider me to be Japanese.

USA is built upon a horrific history of whites treatment of non whites.
First with the killing off and stealing of land of the local American Indians.
Then with the enslavement for hundreds of years of blacks from far away lands.
Then segregation...
It really is a horrific history.

Incidental overlap obfuscates the situation. Some Americans see people from other countries coming here (with different sets of values), and fail to make the distinction between the values themselves vs. the immutable characteristics the people happen to have, and start to treat them interchangeably or attribute one to the other.

Some USA folk, (lets remember that "America" is a continent, including Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Columbia, Peru, Chile, Costa Rica, Venezuela, Puerto Rico, El Salvador, Ecuador, Dominican Republic, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Bolivia, Panama, Belize, Haiti, Jamaica, Uruguay, Paraguay,... The list goes on and on.)
Anyway, some USA folk consider whites to be superior and consider USA to be a white country and see non whites as threats rather than "Americans". For some of these people their number one concern is the de-whitening of USA.

That's one aspect that other countries (even ones that are far more progressive than the US) have understood is that without some sort of common social fabric or shared set of ideas, it's going to be a rough road.

There are many countries, especially in the Western free democratic world, who have embraced diversity, and are great melting pots. USA is not unique at all in having people from different backgrounds.

 

[cow451]

I think those on the left hate white conservative republicans so much that they will do Anything and everything to replace them and make them a minority with no power. Hence wanting as many illegals in to the country as possible so they can eventually give them all citizenship and get democrat voters. Thus building the base and replacing those evil nasty conservative white voters.

It's not that difficult to figure out.

Which those on the "left"?

 

[Danthemailman]

Are you threatened by the fact that white Americans will be a minority?

I'm more threatened by the Democratic motive behind it. You sound excited about it. "Illegal" immigration has accelerated rapidly under Biden, yet that doesn't bother you one bit?

 

[wing2000]

I'm more threatened by the Democratic motive behind it. You sound excited about it. "Illegal" immigration has accelerated rapidly under Biden, yet that doesn't bother you one bit?

I am bothered that so many people worldwide are unable to live their lives in peace...withinin their home countries. I am certainly not threatened by such people. Nor am I bothered if they happen to vote for x party. In any case, the notion that illegal immigrants are voting for a certain party has no basis in reality. There has *never* been any evidence presented to demonstrate this point....it is a lie.

...a lie used to promote ratings....and profit:

By his own account, the Buffalo suspect, Payton S. Gendron, followed a lonelier path to radicalization, immersing himself in replacement theory and other kinds of racist and antisemitic content easily found on internet forums, and casting Black Americans, like Hispanic immigrants, as “replacers” of white Americans. Yet in recent months, versions of the same ideas, sanded down and shorn of explicitly anti-Black and antisemitic themes, have become commonplace in the Republican Party — spoken aloud at congressional hearings, echoed in Republican campaign advertisements and embraced by a growing array of right-wing candidates and media personalities.

No public figure has promoted replacement theory more loudly or relentlessly than the Fox host Tucker Carlson, who has made elite-led demographic change a central theme of his show since joining Fox’s prime-time lineup in 2016. A Times investigation published this month showed that in more than 400 episodes of his show, Mr. Carlson has amplified the notion that Democratic politicians and other assorted elites want to force demographic change through immigration, and his producers sometimes scoured his show’s raw material from the same dark corners of the internet that the Buffalo suspect did.

“It’s not a pipeline. It’s an open sewer,” said Chris Stirewalt, a former Fox News political editor who was fired in 2020 after defending the network’s decision to call Arizona for then-candidate Joseph R. Biden, and who wrote a forthcoming book on how media outlets stoke anger to build audiences.

A Fringe Conspiracy Theory, Fostered Online, Is Refashioned by the G.O.P.

 

[cow451]

The US would have to abandon the fairly recent ethnic diversity tolerance and go back to pressing Anglo-American culture adoption.

Social culture in America needs to be in accordance with the dominant Anglo culture in the deep essentially that defines concepts such as justice, honor, truth, and morality. The dominant Anglo culture isn't perfect by a long shot and it needs a lot of tinkering, but it is functional. It's a boat that floats.

There are other cultures that are too different in those deep essentialities, frankly, to co-exist with this functional society.

About 20 years ago, there was a case in Nebraska of a Saudi Arabian immigrant selling his two young daughters to another Saudi Arabian immigrant. State officials got wind of it after the school got suspicious about their sudden disappearance. The issue went to court and the defense of these Saudi Arabian men was, "This is our culture, and we have a right to practice our culture." The jury of Nebraska citizens did not accept that defense, nor should they have. They said, "Not here."

Diversity adherents lie to themselves. They don't really want deep-down cultural diversity. We don't want multiple definitions of "justice." We don't want multiple definitions of "truth" or "honor." We don't want the Saudi Arabian versions here, we don't want the Chinese national versions here, we don't want the Nigerian versions here, we don't want the Hindu versions here. And many others, including some continental European concepts. People who come here with those deep elements of foreign cultures will have to keep them suppressed.

The US does not need and cannot survive with anything more than surface-level cultural diversity.

Living in an area where industries actively sneaked Latinos in to the US to work in factories, etc......... I have had the opportunity to meet many young Americans born into these families. By and large, the women have no interest in a male-dominated household where the Mother is treated as second class. The young men are "Americanized" as well and want access to education and opportunity..

If one looks at the various waves of immigration, the same dynamic has typically happened. The Anglo culture includes lots of traditions that we "real Americans" take for granted.

Imagine how dreary our meals would be if they were still primarily British and Northern European "delights". Foods from other countries are staples in American life

I just think that replacement fear is overblown by "old White baby boomer men". Americans used to be proud of the "melting pot". I guess these immigrants must have become too uppity or something.

And, TOS does not allow me to post what I think about the likes of people like Tucker Carlson that spew the replacement crap.

Rant over.

 

[cow451]

I'm more threatened by the Democratic motive behind it. You sound excited about it. "Illegal" immigration has accelerated rapidly under Biden, yet that doesn't bother you one bit?

I think "immigration" of any sort is the boogeyman of the radical right.

 

[Danthemailman]

I think "immigration" of any sort is the boogeyman of the radical right.

Only ILLEGAL immigration bothers me.

 

[RDKirk]

Imagine how dreary our meals would be if they were still primarily British and Northern European "delights". Foods from other countries are staples in American life

Food is surface-level culture. People swap foods with little deep cultural attachment. I was talking about deep culture essentials like justice, honor, and truth (that is, epistemology). If someone liking both gyros and tacos is satisfactory "diversity," then fine.

I just think that replacement fear is overblown by "old White baby boomer men". Americans used to be proud of the "melting pot". I guess these immigrants must have become too uppity or something.

"Replacement" fear, in particular, may be based on race, but it's just as much, today, a fear of losing the traditional (Anglo) concepts of justice, honor, and truth.

In fact, that's one of the deep concerns with CRT, which--if you've read the seminal documents--do indeed attack traditional Western concepts of justice, honor, and truth.

I'm personally pretty comfortable with traditional Western concepts of justice, honor, and truth...but there is no indication that the extreme side of the liberal wing isn't willing to dispense with them in favor of...nihilism.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

It's more the ideal.. the goal in the end should be getting to a place where we disregard "race" CRT goes in the opposite direction making race a central issue.
in that regard?
I want to be colorblind.

That's a great goal if everything is starting from a truly equal place.

...a little tougher sell for a lot folks if they're trying to catch up to the people who were allowed to have a 2 mile head start in the marathon.

While there's a lot I disagree within that falls under the umbrella of CRT. One area where I'd probably agree with a lot of the advocates is that it's too easy (for people who weren't on the losing end of decades of bad policy) and who were fortunate enough to be the benefactors of the previous system to sit back and say "I just want to live in a society where we ignore race and I just want everything to be fair moving forward".

"Fair moving forward" isn't a particularly great prescription once everything's been allowed to become quite lopsided.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

USA is built upon a horrific history of whites treatment of non whites.
First with the killing off and stealing of land of the local American Indians.
Then with the enslavement for hundreds of years of blacks from far away lands.
Then segregation...
It really is a horrific history.

That may have been what happened in our history, but it's not "built upon" that by any stretch.

The founding ideas of the country are the framework that many other nations emulated.

The US constitution was something of a unique concept as it was the first of it's kind to be codified (and is still the oldest codified constitution out there). San Marino has one that's technically older, but it's not codified.

There are many countries, especially in the Western free democratic world, who have embraced diversity, and are great melting pots. USA is not unique at all in having people from different backgrounds.

There are certainly other countries that have embraced diversity, but I'm referring to the process of actually changing citizenship...which is different than the more broad concept of diversity.

The US has nearly 50 million foreign born people...and is one of the few countries that can claim to have immigrants from nearly every other country.

The United States is home to the highest number of immigrants in the world. An estimated 50.6 million people in the United States—a bit more than 15% of the total population of 331.4 million—were born in a foreign country. The number of immigrants in the U.S. has increased by at least 400% since 1965. The population of immigrants in the United States is incredibly diverse, with nearly every country in the world represented among U.S. immigrants.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Silver lining, now that mass shooters are kind enough to send out manifestos and live stream their crimes it's harder to blame heavy metal and video games. As a fan of both at least I have that going for me....sigh.

 

[Vap841]

On Wednesday night, [Tucker Carlson] declared that the Biden administration is intentionally trying “to change the racial mix of the country” through immigration.

Do you have the link? I’ve heard him talk about the distinctions between citizens and illegal immigrants, but never heard him complain about a change to the racial mix before. Not that I listen to him a whole lot.

 

[Bradskii]

I was going to say that this comment is the thin edge of a very fat wedge:

There may be some reality to the replacement theory...

But it only took a couple of posts from where it could be suggested that there may be something to it to claiming that is happening in actuality.

I think those on the left hate white conservative republicans so much that they will do Anything and everything to replace them and make them a minority with no power. Hence wanting as many illegals in to the country as possible so they can eventually give them all citizenship and get democrat voters. Thus building the base and replacing those evil nasty conservative white voters.

It's not that difficult to figure out.

What is actually not difficult to figure out is that some people take it from Stage 1 (there may be something to it) through Stage 2 (it's happening already by people who 'hate white conservatives') and straight to Stage 3: I'm going to get me some body armour, some serious weapons, find out where these 'replacements' live and do something about it.

Does anyone want to put a figure on the number of other people who are actually considering this?

The massacre in New Zealand was comitted for exactly the same reasons and there was a move to supress a lot of details about the guy's 'manifesto' so as to deny him the platform he so obviously wanted to espouse his racist ideas. And I say 'the guy' because even his name was supressed.

But in America? It's an opportunity to have an 'honest discussion' about the problem. Which will soon enough slide away from those gunned down (even the fact that he was able to keep his guns will barely be mentioned) and focus on 'Replacement Theory' as if it's an honest-to-God real problem that needs to be confronted.

Which will give people the opportunity to say 'Hey, but this IS actually happening'. Which is tantamount to saying 'I obviously don't agree with what he did, but he did have a point'. Unfortunately, there are way too many people who do agree with what he did. And now have a legitimate reason for repeating it. Because, hey, this isn't racism. It's protecting our way of life. Who can argue with that?

It seems there are too many that won't. So this will happen again.

 

[Bradskii]

Do you have the link? I’ve heard him talk about the distinctions between citizens and illegal immigrants, but never heard him complain about a change to the racial mix before. Not that I listen to him a whole lot.

From here: Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre Declines To Call Out Tucker Carlson – Deadline

He (Carlson) said that Biden favored “an unrelenting stream of immigration. But why? Well, Joe Biden just said it: to change the racial mix of the country. That’s the reason: to reduce the political power of people whose ancestors lived here, and dramatically increase the proportion of Americans newly arrived from the Third World.”