Gun Permit

[twin1954]

And I do not disagree. But the OP has not demonstrated that he is not capable of sober determination. He is not attacking anyone now, so why would that change?



That is not my purpose - I am trying to understand your point of view, which is wholly foreign to me.



Yet in close combat, the hand-to-hand is more lethal than the weapon. Sans discipline, a properly trained hand-to-hand fighter is very capable of killing multiple people - Barring his equal to stop him, the threat is very nearly the same.

Actually there are three types of self defense: warding, hurting and killing.

Warding is where you block or make your attacker miss to let he/she know that you can handle the situation.

Hurting is, of course, when you actually disable your attacker. Ultimately, on the street, it is in order to be able to get away safely. You must decide if the situation is dire enough to do bodily harm to another person in a split second and act first.

Of course killing explains itself. You kill in order to not be killed. Again it is a split second decision and you must evaluate the situation instantly. That is where training comes in.

Being able to kill with your hands and other parts of your body in no way means that you will do so. A big part of true martial arts training is learning control of your anger and aggression.

 

[durangodawood]

...Yet in close combat, the hand-to-hand is more lethal than the weapon. Sans discipline, a properly trained hand-to-hand fighter is very capable of killing multiple people - Barring his equal to stop him, the threat is very nearly the same.

One other thing:
Hand to hand training takes time, effort, and consideration. Combine that with the accompanying training you often get about how to avoid fighting altogether.... and it stacks up totally differently than making yourself lethal with a quick firearm purchase and a day of training.

 

[KitKatMatt]

Oops, I seem to have read the OP wrong and responded in the wrong way.

My post still stands as a general guide, though. Just not directed to the OP, as they didn't say anything about themselves wanting to get a gun to cope with their fear, just the hypothetical.

I have anxiety disorder and have paranoid episodes. I have recognized that it wouldn't be safe for me to have a gun, even though these problems are being treated by doctors, because it would just fuel my fear even more.

This wouldn't be the case for everyone, and I am not saying that it is. However, problems like anxiety, fear, and paranoia need to be addressed before taking the next step. This will help prevent harm from stress and anxiety, as the person will be more stable to make the decision without it being based on fear.

 

[roamer_1]

Being able to kill with your hands and other parts of your body in no way means that you will do so. A big part of true martial arts training is learning control of your anger and aggression.

That's right - as I said upthread, 'sans discipline'... I know that proper training offsets the threat level - But the same can be said of firearm training too - hang around a hunting club or LEOs or a gun range and the same sort of discipline is taught, albeit not anywhere near as intensely. Controlling yourself is always a part of any defensive discipline.

 

[roamer_1]

One other thing:
Hand to hand training takes time, effort, and consideration. Combine that with the accompanying training you often get about how to avoid fighting altogether.... and it stacks up totally differently than making yourself lethal with a quick firearm purchase and a day of training.

As a point of order - i did not advocate 'a quick firearm purchase and a day of training'. I said it would do more harm than good if he didn't know how to use it, and practice a lot.

And as a matter of fact, defensive firearms training also takes time effort and consideration, and the when and where of using the weapon. Most gun ranges will have weapons training courses - My son is a LEO, and does exactly that as a service to the community.

 

[Larniavc]

I have this weird phobia. In my mind, everyone is a potential serial killer. I actually did not know people kill just for fun. But then I watched a documentary on serial killers and they enjoy it. I thought people kill in a heat of passion or because a drug deal gone wrong or whatever. But now I feel unsafe. How on earth can I trust people?

Serial killers can be charming and very friendly according to what I've read.

I am getting to the point of this thread. My question is, is it ethical or wise for somebody like me with an anxiety problem to get a gun permit? My friends and family think it would be wrong, especially with an anxiety problem.

Don't buy into what the media sells you. The chance of being killed by a serial killer is significantly lower than you imagine. You would be waiting many lifetimes until you met one, let alone be serially killed by one.

Being told 'don't worry' won't make you feel any better but do some research on people killed by serial killers vs people killed by crossing the road.

 

[durangodawood]

As a point of order - i did not advocate 'a quick firearm purchase and a day of training'. I said it would do more harm than good if he didn't know how to use it, and practice a lot.....

Point taken.
I'm not at all arguing against gun ownership generally.

But for a guy who has expressed serious concerns about his own ability to discern a genuine threat?
Seems like a no brainer, so to speak.

 

[Chesterton]

Anyone else a little worried about the OP? Hasn't been back since posting. Hope he's not in a hole somewhere putting the lotion on its skin because he didn't have a gun.

 

[Locutus]

Hi everyone! I didn't expect to dive into this forum on this question, but here goes:

I live in NW Montana, and around here guns are just part of the furniture. I don't know how folks get along without one, and I've actually got way more than one - ranging from pistols, carbines, and shotguns, to high powered rifles... Add a big dog, and I am not really anxious about protection. It just isn't a consideration, because it comes with the confidence of self reliance.

Here guns are nothing more than a tool anyway - Just part of natural life. Farm, ranch, or forest, there is always a need, either to protect, or to hunt, or to put something out of it's misery. There's always a pistol and a carbine in the truck, and usually on me or on the horse if I'm out in the sticks. There's a .45 by my bed, and a sawed-off 12 gauge over the door. So for me, your question is almost a foreign language.

Of course you should own a gun. Especially if you are anxious about your safety. My recommendation would be to go find a nearby gun range and become educated and acclimatized before your purchase, assuming you are starting from a point of ignorance... Most gun folks will be happy to help you learn, and figure out what you need. And then practice. Often, and more often. It'll do more harm than good if y'all don't know how to use it.

I think you'll find that with a little bit of knowledge, this won't be a scary thing at all, and you'll be far more confident in your ability to protect yourself without having to rely on others.

And in that same vein, pick up a self defense class - Taekwondo, or jujitsu, etc - guns are not always the solution, and you should know how to defend yourself reasonably with nothing but your hands and feet.

Why wouldn't you want to know how to defend yourself?

I have lived half my adult life in remote and forested areas, much of that on large acreages. I'm surrounded by woodsy 'survivalist' types and farmers etc. I do not currently know a single person who owns a gun, and have yet to meet a single person in my area who owns a gun. I vaguely remember meeting someone who owned a rifle (for rabbits) many many years ago, and thinking how terrifying and surreal it was. I know that some farmers in remote areas keep rifles for vermin and livestock beyond repair, but these guns are truly treated as farm equipment. No one keeps them besides beds or within arms reach. We don't walk around thinking someone is going to attack us any minute, in this country. Probably because we don't all own guns.

PS: I camp, hike, farm, and deal with 'predators' all the time. I hiked in forest with my kids just this past Friday and came across a couple of potentially lethal animals. Survival lies in knowing how to behave around such animals, and understanding their habits etc. I don't need to shoot them to stay alive. My kids have been raised around such beasts and in 'dangerous' forests, and know how to manage themselves.

 

[roamer_1]

I have lived half my adult life in remote and forested areas, much of that on large acreages. I'm surrounded by woodsy 'survivalist' types and farmers etc. I do not currently know a single person who owns a gun, and have yet to meet a single person in my area who owns a gun.

I can't say I don't know anyone who doesn't own a gun, but by far and away, most folks here DO. And more than one, because each has a purpose.

A carbine is a brush gun or saddle gun. General purpose hunting rifle, and protection in the woods. Great for deer hunting with open sights in brushy bottom land near creeks and rivers.

Shotguns generally are for bird hunting - we have turkey, pheasant, grouse, geese, ducks, and quail.

A high powered rifle is for long range deer (open country) elk, moose, mountain sheep and goats

Pistols are generally for protection, and close in varmints. We've got griz and wolves, and moose (who are by far the most unpredictable). This is open carry country, and I always have a pistol on me in the woods.

The sawed-off is there because it has a wide but short scatter pattern. It makes a great home defense weapon, but that's not why I have it... The choke blew off the barrel, and I had a new shotgun anyway, so sawing this one down made sense. And it is great for critters (coon, skunk) around the yard, because I don't have to worry about down range too much

these guns are truly treated as farm equipment.

Likewise, more or less.

No one keeps them besides beds or within arms reach. We don't walk around thinking someone is going to attack us any minute, in this country. Probably because we don't all own guns.

We don't walk around thinking anyone's gonna attack us either - In fact, it is extremely unlikely that anyone would.
So the only thing you've got on me is the pistol by my bed. I have spent many a night in the deep woods with a pistol necessarily close to hand, and I ain't gonna stop that now. It certainly isn't a matter of fear. I sleep real good at night.

PS: I camp, hike, farm, and deal with 'predators' all the time. I hiked in forest with my kids just this past Friday and came across a couple of potentially lethal animals. Survival lies in knowing how to behave around such animals, and understanding their habits etc. I don't need to shoot them to stay alive. My kids have been raised around such beasts and in 'dangerous' forests, and know how to manage themselves.

We hear that a lot up here. There's an old joke about griz scat having little bells in it and smelling like pepper (spray)... It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. Just a month or two ago, a guy defended himself against a wolf pack with a pistol - shot two or three of them as I recall. Betcha he was pretty happy to have that hog-leg on him at the time. And in recent memory, a man got jumped by a cougar, killed it dead... Gratefully.

And one of my own tales: I stepped on a wolverine. It's a long and bloody story, but if you know what a wolverine is, you'd really, really understand how happy I was at that moment (and the ensuing several minutes) to have that old Colt on me. You can never tell what might happen - I am probably the only person in the world that has ever said 'I stepped in the middle of a wolverine'. You'd have to be an idiot to walk these woods without a firearm.

 

[Locutus]

There's lots of private gun ownership around the world.

Not where I live, and not in many other civilised nations. It really is an American idiosyncrasy.

 

[Locutus]

Why is that? I don't see how deadly weapons and Christianity are mutually exclusive.

I don't think I really need to respond to this

 

[Locutus]

I can't say I don't know anyone who doesn't own a gun, but by far and away, most folks here DO. And more than one, because each has a purpose.

A carbine is a brush gun or saddle gun. General purpose hunting rifle, and protection in the woods. Great for deer hunting with open sights in brushy bottom land near creeks and rivers.

Shotguns generally are for bird hunting - we have turkey, pheasant, grouse, geese, ducks, and quail.

A high powered rifle is for long range deer (open country) elk, moose, mountain sheep and goats

Pistols are generally for protection, and close in varmints. We've got griz and wolves, and moose (who are by far the most unpredictable). This is open carry country, and I always have a pistol on me in the woods.

The sawed-off is there because it has a wide but short scatter pattern. It makes a great home defense weapon, but that's not why I have it... The choke blew off the barrel, and I had a new shotgun anyway, so sawing this one down made sense. And it is great for critters (coon, skunk) around the yard, because I don't have to worry about down range too much

Likewise, more or less.

We don't walk around thinking anyone's gonna attack us either - In fact, it is extremely unlikely that anyone would.
So the only thing you've got on me is the pistol by my bed. I have spent many a night in the deep woods with a pistol necessarily close to hand, and I ain't gonna stop that now. It certainly isn't a matter of fear. I sleep real good at night.

We hear that a lot up here. There's an old joke about griz scat having little bells in it and smelling like pepper (spray)... It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. Just a month or two ago, a guy defended himself against a wolf pack with a pistol - shot two or three of them as I recall. Betcha he was pretty happy to have that hog-leg on him at the time. And in recent memory, a man got jumped by a cougar, killed it dead... Gratefully.

And one of my own tales: I stepped on a wolverine. It's a long and bloody story, but if you know what a wolverine is, you'd really, really understand how happy I was at that moment (and the ensuing several minutes) to have that old Colt on me. You can never tell what might happen - I am probably the only person in the world that has ever said 'I stepped in the middle of a wolverine'. You'd have to be an idiot to walk these woods without a firearm.

Our farmers usually only possess a single rifle/shotgun. They get little use.

I feel no compulsion to have access to a gun for 'veterinary' purposes. When we've had large animals down - which are clearly not going to survive or have a broken leg - we call a vet, who administers the green dream. Most rural vets here operate more like ambulances, and attend asap. There might be an hour or so travel time, but you'd rarely wait longer.

Your woods are more hazardous than ours, though we do have some lethal wildlife. We just learn how to exist with them - so neither they nor us are in danger.

As for not being fearful and sleeping well at night - as someone else said, I'd hate to see what you'd pack if you WERE fearful.

 

[Locutus]

Getting lost in the timber, a bad winter, a bear or moose, a bad fall in the rocks - Preventing all of it takes a form of defense - Fighting's just another form. Usually, when you get in a fix, help is too far away, so it is best to do for yourself.

We have all of those hazards here bar the bear/moose (though we have our own nasties), yet no one sets off into the wild with guns. Like, ever.

Rednecks might, but we don't have a lot of those here, and they're not wilderness appreciators nor hikers. They're not likely to get lost either way, since they usually take their vehicles with them into the bush.

 

[Locutus]

Always face the fear.

So you face your fear - from behind a wall of weapons.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I



We hear that a lot up here. There's an old joke about griz scat having little bells in it and smelling like pepper (spray)...

Q. What does a bear call pepper spray?
A. Seasoning.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Not where I live, and not in many other civilised nations. It really is an American idiosyncrasy.

Perhaps to foreigners but within American culture it's not peculiar.

 

[roamer_1]

Our farmers usually only possess a single rifle/shotgun. They get little use.

See, now that just doesn't make any sense at all.

Every farm or ranch I have ever been on, down the Rockies, through the Midwest, touching on the South and Desert SW are just like me. Maybe not as much toward high-powered rifles out of the mountains, because their needs rarely run past deer and boar hunting... close range, and small target stuff... but otherwise much the same.

And it is seldom that I would find a rancher or farmer that doesn't raise and butcher his own meat - I have helped to cut up cows on many an occasion. Likewise chickens and turkeys. It's just part of living, and has been since the dawn of time.

It's folks that get their meat on styrofoam trays that I find... strange (beggin' all y'all's pardon). Most of my meat comes right out of the mountains, good Lord willing, fresh and clean, just the way that the Father made them. What's left comes out of freshwater lakes and streams, by my own hand, or is local, range fed, slaughtered and packaged, right here in this valley.

I feel no compulsion to have access to a gun for 'veterinary' purposes.

I'd be hard pressed to find anyone outside of town that hasn't put a wounded animal down. Deer getting hit by cars are a frequent thing. I sure wouldn't make the critter wait for hours - Sounds awfully cruel to me. I'd just put it out of it's misery.

Your woods are more hazardous than ours, though we do have some lethal wildlife. We just learn how to exist with them - so neither they nor us are in danger.

Me too - to a point. Some just are too tasty to pass by. If they aren't of the tasty sort, and they aren't being a nuisance, I'm pretty much live and let live myself.

As for not being fearful and sleeping well at night - as someone else said, I'd hate to see what you'd pack if you WERE fearful.

The things I am afraid of aren't of that sort.

 

[roamer_1]

We have all of those hazards here bar the bear/moose (though we have our own nasties), yet no one sets off into the wild with guns. Like, ever.

Pardon me, but then, it ain't wild.

Rednecks might, but we don't have a lot of those here, and they're not wilderness appreciators nor hikers. They're not likely to get lost either way, since they usually take their vehicles with them into the bush.

You might have noticed by now, that I am redneck as the day is long, dyed in the wool... Sweet tea, jacked-up truck, Sweet Home Alabama playin', the whole 9 yards... With a dollop of hillbilly thrown in for good measure. Of course where I am from, and across a great swath of this country, that isn't a slur...

And like everyone who lives off the land, I have a great reverence for it (and I find offense in your remark). I could take you places that are so pristine, so beautiful, that they make your soul ache and your heart soar. Such places are still wild as the day YHWH made them.

But my pickup will generally only get me about 30 miles off the blacktop in any direction - after that, there isn't even a jeep trail left, and still millions and millions of acres beyond. a hot year brings fires that regularly take 250,000 acres, and you can't even tell the difference. Most folks don't have a clue how big this land is, nor how wild and formidable.

I've spent months back there, with nothing brought in but what I could put on my back. Both winter and summer. I have twice walked those deep woods across the continental divide and back. I've run many hundreds of miles on horseback, pulling a pack string. If I wasn't gimped up, I could live up there, because I have... So long I went native on more than one occasion.

But of course, to live up there, one necessarily must forego silly notions against killing poor little furry woodland creatures, because any food you could pack in is gone in 10 days to 2 weeks, at best lookout... Things get back to natural quickly as a matter of course. You must have a high protein food source, and plenty of it for the work of walking those woods.

But it is well worth it if you are game enough - there is nothing more beautiful, nothing more free, nothing closer to the Father than a high country hanging valley, deep in the Rockies, where nobody ever goes.

 

[roamer_1]

Q. What does a bear call pepper spray?
A. Seasoning.

Hah! Can I get a witness?