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Gun Control

Paradox.79

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This is and edited episode clip from Designated Survivor addressing common sense gun control. The story has happened more than once. Unlicensed gun sellers do not have to do a background check, a criminal or nut job buys a gun and kills someone. I think this video address the issue.

 

Silverback

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If the law is changed requiring background checks for "ALL" firearm purchases, public and private, it will have no affect. Criminals don't follow the law...that's why there criminals
 
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iluvatar5150

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This is and edited episode clip from Designated Survivor addressing common sense gun control. The story has happened more than once. Unlicensed gun sellers do not have to do a background check, a criminal or nut job buys a gun and kills someone. I think this video address the issue.


How many of these shootings are committed by guns purchased from private sellers who didn't conduct a background check?

I agree that universal background checks and other gun control measures are sensible. But folks concerned with curbing crime ought to not pin much hope on particular measures, because most seem to do little more than nibbling at the edges of the problem(s).

Short of a mass confiscation (which I wouldn't necessarily support, but wouldn't necessarily oppose either), I don't think much headway will be had by pursuing this strategy.
 
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iluvatar5150

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If the law is changed requiring background checks for "ALL" firearm purchases, public and private, it will have no affect. Criminals don't follow the law...that's why there criminals

The claim that it'll have "no effect" is silly. (whether it'll have a big effect is another matter) Combined with universal registration, universal background checks would provide a chain of custody for a weapon that could be used to prosecute a seller who didn't perform the proper checks before transferring the weapon. Some of these improper transfers occur because the current system affords the buy some measure of secrecy and the seller a measure of plausible deniability.
 
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Paradox.79

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The claim that it'll have "no effect" is silly. (whether it'll have a big effect is another matter) Combined with universal registration, universal background checks would provide a chain of custody for a weapon that could be used to prosecute a seller who didn't perform the proper checks before transferring the weapon. Some of these improper transfers occur because the current system affords the buy some measure of secrecy and the seller a measure of plausible deniability.

I have know problem with someone owning a gun. As long as the person who sells it to them is licensed to sell guns, the person is trained properly in the use of it and proper care of it, and a background check. And finally your responsible for it. That means you make sure your kids can not get there hands on it. If your child is having a mental breakdown steals the gun and shoots up their school you are responsible. Another problem today is parents are not aware of there kids mental wellness. My mom was, my mom worked alot but she regularly sat down with here kids and talked with us. She talked to teachers and neighbors. I was going through a very dark time when I was a teenager my mom noticed and got me help.
 
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Paradox.79

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If the law is changed requiring background checks for "ALL" firearm purchases, public and private, it will have no affect. Criminals don't follow the law...that's why there criminals
Criminals are in the business of making money illegally. Mass killing of children is done by mentally ill people. And I am sorry to tell you plenty of countries...google them have guns and gun control...and [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] they have less violent crimes...gasp...yes I am being sarcastic lol. Oh wait a guy starts shooting randomly in public, another good person has a gun and defends everyone...sadly the good person is not trained in armed combat an accidently shoots an innocent...that's happened google it.
 
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Silverback

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How many of these shootings are committed by guns purchased from private sellers who didn't conduct a background check?

I agree that universal background checks and other gun control measures are sensible. But folks concerned with curbing crime ought to not pin much hope on particular measures, because most seem to do little more than nibbling at the edges of the problem(s).

Short of a mass confiscation (which I wouldn't necessarily support, but wouldn't necessarily oppose either), I don't think much headway will be had by pursuing this strategy.

A nationwide buy back of all firearms accept single shot, and double barrel, would help, as long as amnesty goes along with it. Anyone caught with a banned firearm after the buy back period is over, is looking at ten years in prison for each gun to run consecutively.

Hand guns are the weapons of choice, primarily semi automatic pistols, 90% of firearm deaths are are committed with handguns.

The other possibility is for gun owners to leave their now banned guns in a shooting rang armory where you could go and buy as much ammunition as you would like, and just shoot away. When done, clean your weapon(s) turn them over to the armory

Law abiding citizens should be able to possess firearms for lawful activities, like hunting, shooting sports, collecting, and YES lawful self defense.
 
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ZagZig

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If the law is changed requiring background checks for "ALL" firearm purchases, public and private, it will have no affect. Criminals don't follow the law...that's why there criminals
Absolutely. Laws and red tape are only for those who follow the law.
Anyway, it's the one who wields it that makes it a weapon. Club, knife, rock, stick, spear, sword, gun, poison, piano wire or bare hands... murder and killing are old as time. The only reason for a government to remove the right to bear arms is to create a defenseless populace. The only way to stop gun crime is to punish those who commit the crime. The judicial system already said that they will not increase penalties or sentences. It's on them
 
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SilverBear

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research is space but the studies i did see suggest that about 20% of mass shooters would not have passed a background check. But that number is beside the point. Even if background checks only managed stopped one mass shooting wouldn't that be enough?
 
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renniks

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research is space but the studies i did see suggest that about 20% of mass shooters would not have passed a background check. But that number is beside the point. Even if background checks only managed stopped one mass shooting wouldn't that be enough?
How does a background check stop someone bent on murder?
" Oh I would never steal or buy an illegal gun, but I really want to kill a lot of people."
Is that really how these people think,,?
 
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Fantine

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This could be a nightmare scenario. A mass shooter opens fire in a shopping mall. This shopping mall is in the deep South where many people are armed. 24 "good guys with guns" whip their guns out and start shooting. Before shooting they look around, but there are people with guns everywhere. Who do they shoot?

That might depend on their background and prejudices. One may think that black people are more likely to be the shooters, so using his best (albeit prejudiced) info he shoots a black good guy with a gun. Another may have seen in his experience that people wearing leather and lots of tattoos are likely to be criminals. A third might pick the man who appears to be middle eastern. All of a sudden bullets are flying. People are frightened. People are confused. Might there be two or three bad guys with guns out there? Accomplices? Remember that this is happening at lightning speed. Maybe the guy with the biggest weapon is the shooter--even though he looks like a good churchgoing type. When everyone has guns out, how do they really know?
 
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renniks

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This could be a nightmare scenario. A mass shooter opens fire in a shopping mall. This shopping mall is in the deep South where many people are armed. 24 "good guys with guns" whip their guns out and start shooting. Before shooting they look around, but there are people with guns everywhere. Who do they shoot?

That might depend on their background and prejudices. One may think that black people are more likely to be the shooters, so using his best (albeit prejudiced) info he shoots a black good guy with a gun. Another may have seen in his experience that people wearing leather and lots of tattoos are likely to be criminals. A third might pick the man who appears to be middle eastern. All of a sudden bullets are flying. People are frightened. People are confused. Might there be two or three bad guys with guns out there? Accomplices? Remember that this is happening at lightning speed. Maybe the guy with the biggest weapon is the shooter--even though he looks like a good churchgoing type. When everyone has guns out, how do they really know?
Lol, you have a very low opinion of armed citizens obviously. The most basic rule is to never shoot until you are sure of your target. Can you show me where this has actually happened?
 
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Silverback

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This could be a nightmare scenario. A mass shooter opens fire in a shopping mall. This shopping mall is in the deep South where many people are armed. 24 "good guys with guns" whip their guns out and start shooting. Before shooting they look around, but there are people with guns everywhere. Who do they shoot?

That might depend on their background and prejudices. One may think that black people are more likely to be the shooters, so using his best (albeit prejudiced) info he shoots a black good guy with a gun. Another may have seen in his experience that people wearing leather and lots of tattoos are likely to be criminals. A third might pick the man who appears to be middle eastern. All of a sudden bullets are flying. People are frightened. People are confused. Might there be two or three bad guys with guns out there? Accomplices? Remember that this is happening at lightning speed. Maybe the guy with the biggest weapon is the shooter--even though he looks like a good churchgoing type. When everyone has guns out, how do they really know?

Has that happened?...not everyone in the "Deep South" carries a firearm, this that do are a small minority. I live in the Deep South, your prejudices are showing through...people in Northern States carry concealed also.
 
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Don Maurer

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The video misses the whole point. The video is a mere low level, emotional, brain dead appeal that spreads ignorance about the actual issues of gun control. The video spreads ignorance because most states already have laws on the books to take away guns from violent criminals, or the seriously mentally ill. Gun control already exists in most states.

I live in Pennsylvania. We already have a gun control laws. You will loose your right to own a gun
1-- If you have committed crimes using weapons.
2-- If you have been involuntarily committed to a psych unit.
* Also, if you have a concealed weapon, you must have a government permit to carry.
-- Law abiding citizens can own both hunting rifles and shot guns, and also law abiding citizens can own hand guns for self defense. There are even state militia people that are law abiding citizens that have guns. The point I am making in this paragraph, is that many states already have gun control laws. I am open to debating current laws, but emotional videos like the one above contribute nothing to the debate.

The real debate is two fold.
1-- Federal control: The 2nd amendment reads:
"A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."
* I am no legal expert, but PA law has been on the books for 1/2 century. I expect that if it were unconstitutional, it would have been challenged by now. So then, Pa already has gun control laws, and they are constitutional.
* I am against federal control. I know what federal control means. It would mean the overturning of the 2nd amendment. I prefer state control. The reason for this is that gun violence is very much related to locality. Big cities have the majority of gun violence and the gang bangers are at the center of it. On the other hand, a state like Wyoming has far less gun control and also has far less gun violence.
My point here is that gun violence is very local. State control makes sense. Federal control means only the overturning of the 2nd amendment and the possibility of the overturning of democracy.

2-- Police involvement: If the laws are already on the books, then why do gang bangers in the cities have guns? I suspect that there is a problem in the courts with judges not giving police warrants to enter the residences of the gang bangers and take the guns away. When police make arrests, they do go through a home and remove guns, but this seems insufficient to me. I think the police should be given more freedom to receive warrants to go after gang bangers and their weapons. A previous use of weapons in violent crime should be sufficient to get a warrant. Gang bangers conceal weapons all the time. Drug dealers conceal weapons all the time. The point here is that laws already on the books need enforcement better than what we currently have.

CONCLUSIONS
It seems to me that no one seems to offer specific recommendations to adjust state gun control laws. The only suggestion seems to be to ban all guns from a federal levels. Ignorant gun control advocates say that they want guns taken away from violent criminals, but that is already on the books in PA, so the gun control advocates are being dishonest. They say that they will allow hunting equipment. I do not believe that if there is gun control from the federal level, it will allow any guns at all.

I own guns and have taught my children how to use a gun. All my children have been deer hunting. I support the right of gun ownership under current Pennsylvania laws. I want the police to receive more liberal warrants and for more policing of current gun laws. I am open to some debate on changing the current state laws, but I grow tired of the radicle leftists going for broke and attempting to overturn the 2nd amendment at the federal level.
 
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RDKirk

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This could be a nightmare scenario. A mass shooter opens fire in a shopping mall. This shopping mall is in the deep South where many people are armed. 24 "good guys with guns" whip their guns out and start shooting. Before shooting they look around, but there are people with guns everywhere. Who do they shoot?

That might depend on their background and prejudices. One may think that black people are more likely to be the shooters, so using his best (albeit prejudiced) info he shoots a black good guy with a gun. Another may have seen in his experience that people wearing leather and lots of tattoos are likely to be criminals. A third might pick the man who appears to be middle eastern. All of a sudden bullets are flying. People are frightened. People are confused. Might there be two or three bad guys with guns out there? Accomplices? Remember that this is happening at lightning speed. Maybe the guy with the biggest weapon is the shooter--even though he looks like a good churchgoing type. When everyone has guns out, how do they really know?

Despite NRA rhetoric, among people who actually carry guns, there is a casual debate about the ultimate purpose of doing so. There are some people--tending to be a minority--who want to be "good guys with guns" who picture themselves righting wrongs. Maybe (I have no data on this) those are the younger guys.

Then there are those like me who see it as an option to protect ourselves and our own loved ones while we retreat to safety...with "while we retreat to safety" being the operative phrase. If we get cornered, we just want an option to begging "Please don't shoot me." Those definitely tend to be the older guys.

There is the one case where the "good guy with a gun" failed to identify the second shooter and was killed. That gets mentioned a lot. And of course, being black, I certainly do take into consideration that someone will almost certainly presume I am the bad guy. Oh, yeah, when the police do their investigation, someone is going to say that.

There are frequent cases of people choosing to be "good guys with guns" getting unnecessarily involved, particularly when the stakes are merely property loss--particularly a company's property loss--instead of lives. Most people who actually carry guns fall into the "they've got insurance for that" category.
 
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RDKirk

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Has that happened?...not everyone in the "Deep South" carries a firearm, this that do are a small minority. I live in the Deep South, your prejudices are showing through...people in Northern States carry concealed also.

Currently in Texas, only 2% of residents are licensed to carry, and surveys indicate only half of those licensed actually do so.

Next month, the Texas "Constitutional Carry" law goes into effect which removes the need to have a carry license (it becomes optional, but smart people will continue to get licensed). We'll see if that actually makes a substantial difference in how many people walk around armed.
 
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RDKirk

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Lol, you have a very low opinion of armed citizens obviously. The most basic rule is to never shoot until you are sure of your target. Can you show me where this has actually happened?

Oh, but they were sure that the black guy (that is, me) was the target.
 
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