Grumpy Christians!

[repentandbelieve]

I think steeldisciple may have been refering to cheerfulness without levity.

Anyway, who's idea was it that we can only praise and flatter our associates here and not faithfully tell them of their dangers and warn and counsel them for their good?

 

[LJB42]

This is a most interesting Thread--i wish i knew where the dividing line between arguing/debating and "iron sharpening iron" lies. Wherever, it is a thin one alright!
i think the issue raised in most of these Posts might be: AT WHAT POINT IN OUR WALK TOWARD CHRIST DO WE ACTUALLY BECOME "CHRISTIANS"--by definition rather than by self-description.
To me, "Christian" translates as "Christ-like." Most of us fit that definition sometimes, and at other times we don't. Hopefully, in our Christian walk, we fit it more and more of the time, and fall short less and less until we satisfy our Lord's Commandment--"BE YE THEREFORE PERFECT AS YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN IS PERFECT."
i think that when a person becomes "Christ-like" 51% of the time, he/she has a right to call themselves a "Christian"; before this, perhaps they can be classified as "catecumens". (51% is an arbitrary point, obviously, but it indicates that an effort is being made and progress achieved on the path to perfection, given that most of us start at 0%.)
Soooooo . . . when dealing with "grumpy Christians" or "angry Christians" or "lustful Christians" or whatever, their actions/speech/etc. should perhaps be evaluated on whether the negativity is chronic or an anomaly. As mentioned in a Posting above, we all have bad days--may God grant that they become fewer and fewer as our walk progresses, recognizing that perfection is a lifelong goal and progress often slow (as in my case, for example.) But if these negative behaviors continue week in, week out, there should be an Elder or a Spiritual Father or a Pastor or whatever who has the calling and the courage to point this out to the person and guide them in making the requisite changes in their Spiritual walk--for the good of the person, the good of the congregation, and the good of those who observe our Christian walks and evaluate our Lord based on whether or not His image and likeness is visible in those of us who profess to be His followers. i, for one, must confess to fall short much of the time, but with God's help and my Spiritual Father's guidance, i will get better in my mirrorship and be worthy of the name "Christian."

MAY WE ALL BE BLESS AND HEALED,
ephraimanesti

I pretty much feel that I know many types of Christians, and I can sincerely say that I have learned valuable lessons in being around people that are uncontrollably fervent in their praise and joy of their faith and I have certainly seen the wisdom and heart of God come forth from those that have been "tempered with levity" and are much less prone to shout from the mountain tops.
I honestly believe that we can aspire to and hopefully attain, however, a point in our walks (probably through alot of hard suffering to obedience as well as with the sheer joyfullness of the revelation of who our God is and what His son did for us) where we can honestly say we "never have a bad day" in our walk with the Father, in time due to those revelations and experiences, regardless of the relative way that it gets expressed outwardly.
I think this falls in line with what ephraimanesti is alluding to, at least in my perception of it...

In light of that - there is still no error in shouting HALLELUJAH in the face of adversity (I know some of those Christians also! )

 

[soblessed53]

I think steeldisciple may have been refering to cheerfulness without levity.

Anyway, who's idea was it that we can only praise and flatter our associates here and not faithfully tell them of their dangers and warn and counsel them for their good?

I think there have been some good threads here that warn of taking our responsibility for a sincere Christian walk seriously. I myself posted one titled"Have You seen This Church". If you notice I call myself a "fruit inspector". My gift is encouraging,but I will point out hypocrisy as well. The thing is,this forum is for Edification so we must try to remember to have a loving spirit here,there is the opposite if desired,on other forums.

 

[LJB42]

I gotta say soblessed, that your determination certainly seems passionate from what I have read here. And I don't know that there is anything wrong with that at all.
I am new here and do not know all of the rules, but I don't think that the points that you are seeming to consider insults are necessarily intended to be exactly that. Maybe I have missed the point entirely, but I really want to know. God knows I am ignorant in many ways but I want to be correct in my choices of involvement & I would hate to try to get involved in this thread and/or forum and be deemed a hypocrite like you were saying because my motivation is not considered up to snuff with someone else's. It would probably make me feel a little shame and embarrasment more than it would edify or encourage me. Sort of like a new kid being pushed around at school and being told to go hang out with the losers at the other end of the hall. Should I go elsewhere if I feel any kind of contradicting feelings from what someone may post on this forum as you were alluding to?
I just liked the title "deeper fellowship" and figured I could get some of that. It is an honest question, because like I said, I simply do not know much yet except for that there are MANY rules that I need to familiarize myself with or I will probably get into stuff I'm didn't mean to.
Thanks soblessed

 

[soblessed53]

Hello,and welcome to the Forum. I don't really know what SteelDisciple intended in his post #14 but yes,I did take it that he was insulting the brothers and sisters,including myself who come here to share our love of God,and worship together. There are plenty of other forums on this HUGE site for debate,if that is what one seeks, so several of us like to think that DF is a sanctuary that is free from that. So if our sharing poems and stories and testimonies that we hope Edify each other turns some off as being "mushy,flowery and hippy" whatever that means,then I suppose they would be happier somewhere else,because that is what we love doing here. If you would enjoy fellowshipping and sharing with us,we would love to have another brother's input and company. I hope I explained myself? Feel free to ask anything else you need to. BTW I do not have any control over this forum. I just try to back up my friends that share the same feelings about DF but who are on different time clocks than I. I seem to be the only one right now who is trying to maintain the peacefulness and lack of debate here,right now as I am the only one here during the day. Actually I have spent more time than usual here yesterday and today,LOL! God Bless You.

 

[repentandbelieve]

From the endless variety of plants and flowers, we may learn an important lesson. All blossoms are not the same in form or color. Some possess healing virtues. Some are always fragrant. There are professing Christians who think it their duty to make every other Christian like themselves. This is man's plan, not the plan of God. In the church of God there is room for characters as varied as are the flowers in a garden. In His spiritual garden there are many varieties of flowers.

 

[LJB42]

Hello,and welcome to the Forum. I don't really know what SteelDisciple intended in his post #14 but yes,I did take it that he was insulting the brothers and sisters,including myself who come here to share our love of God,and worship together. There are plenty of other forums on this HUGE site for debate,if that is what one seeks, so several of us like to think that DF is a sanctuary that is free from that. So if our sharing poems and stories and testimonies that we hope Edify each other turns some off as being "mushy,flowery and hippy" whatever that means,then I suppose they would be happier somewhere else,because that is what we love doing here. If you would enjoy fellowshipping and sharing with us,we would love to have another brother's input and company. I hope I explained myself? Feel free to ask anything else you need to. BTW I do not have any control over this forum. I just try to back up my friends that share the same feelings about DF but who are on different time clocks than I. I seem to be the only one right now who is trying to maintain the peacefulness and lack of debate here,right now as I am the only one here during the day. Actually I have spent more time than usual here yesterday and today,LOL! God Bless You.

Thank you and I can appreciate what you said. It seemed to me by your responses that you know the ins and outs of what is basically allowed in this forum/thread et al. Didnt mean to place any undue responsibility on you. Seems that there are a lot of restrictions on this website and I am sure that experience and common sense dictates most of that. I don't mind debate when it stays somewhat within the realm of my ability to discern accuracy and helps sharpen me, actually I don't even mind looking like a fool when it is for my good, but I certainly can understand trying to avoid it sometimes! Thank you for your kind words and may God bless you and your heart intentions as you strive to find His will and takes away the burdens of your life with His love.

 

[soblessed53]

Your welcome and thank you. Believe me our Lord does carry my burdens,hence the name,LOL! I hope you are enjoying a blessed evening.

 

[zmastah]

Well, there are tactful and not so tactful ways to express opinions, as this thread has demonstrated. While I may have originally misunderstood what soblessed was meaning by not wanting debate, after these last few posts, I really see where she's coming from. Originally, I too probably took it as being fearful of critique or just wanting people to agree, in all honesty. But that's not the case at all. Perhaps using the terms "mushy hippy Christians" may have been less than tactful as Steeldisciple demonstrated. It got the point across, to an extent, yes, but there may have been a better way to say that.

And I confess that I too am often ignorant in the way discussion/talk is handled here. I'm actually accustomed to the kind of tactless debating that goes on in some of my college English classes where folks end up calling each other all manner of wonderful things while getting their point across. Not that I would do that, but you see what I mean. And as we are all God's children, we all have our own perspective to add and our own ideas to share, as repentandbelieve has explained.

Ultimately, this thread caught my attention because I was one of those grumpy christians. I had my reasons, of which, we won't go into here. Ultimately, it was because I had separated myself from God. In some cases, even rebelled against him, and I was bitter toward a lot of Christians. I felt like they had abandoned me and that they were nothing but a bunch of hypocritical elitists who were stuck on themselves. Boy did I have that backwards. Thank God, He forgives even such knuckleheads as me. But the thread struck a chord in me, regardless, and I felt that the best way to show my appreciation to Soblessed was to talk about what she had said.

 

[Just Me Garry]

I am too tired right now to be grumpeth. LOL

Later folks,
Garry

 

[soblessed53]

Well, there are tactful and not so tactful ways to express opinions, as this thread has demonstrated. While I may have originally misunderstood what soblessed was meaning by not wanting debate, after these last few posts, I really see where she's coming from. Originally, I too probably took it as being fearful of critique or just wanting people to agree, in all honesty. But that's not the case at all. Perhaps using the terms "mushy hippy Christians" may have been less than tactful as Steeldisciple demonstrated. It got the point across, to an extent, yes, but there may have been a better way to say that.

And I confess that I too am often ignorant in the way discussion/talk is handled here. I'm actually accustomed to the kind of tactless debating that goes on in some of my college English classes where folks end up calling each other all manner of wonderful things while getting their point across. Not that I would do that, but you see what I mean. And as we are all God's children, we all have our own perspective to add and our own ideas to share, as repentandbelieve has explained.

Ultimately, this thread caught my attention because I was one of those grumpy christians. I had my reasons, of which, we won't go into here. Ultimately, it was because I had separated myself from God. In some cases, even rebelled against him, and I was bitter toward a lot of Christians. I felt like they had abandoned me and that they were nothing but a bunch of hypocritical elitists who were stuck on themselves. Boy did I have that backwards. Thank God, He forgives even such knuckleheads as me. But the thread struck a chord in me, regardless, and I felt that the best way to show my appreciation to Soblessed was to talk about what she had said.

Thank you so much for those kind words ,and I agree 100% with what you said about "tact",but it goes deeper than that, to a right "heart attitude" towards fellow believers,I think. Also I have always believed debate is destructive and nothing good EVER comes of it "An opinion changed against the will,remains the same opinion still".

Now discussion is another matter,entirely especially if it is done with an honest love for the truth and learning. I have had my mind changed many times over the years,because someone had good enough facts and evidence to back up what they were presenting,and it was not done in a demanding,forceful,or arguementive manner,But debate, which is trying to force another to your way of thinking, I despise.


Your testimony was also a Blessing and I am so happy for you,that God opened your eyes as He usually has to do for all of us at times.I believe you are already being Blessed because you are yeilding to His will and teaching, and I will pray for your continued Blessings and growth.

 

[repentandbelieve]

Thank you so much for those kind words ,and I agree 100% with what you said about "tact",but it goes deeper than that, to a right "heart attitude" towards fellow believers,I think. Also I have always believed debate is destructive and nothing good EVER comes of it "An opinion changed against the will,remains the same opinion still".

Now discussion is another matter,entirely especially if it is done with an honest love for the truth and learning. I have had my mind changed many times over the years,because someone had good enough facts and evidence to back up what they were presenting,and it was not done in a demanding,forceful,or arguementive manner,But debate, which is trying to force another to your way of thinking, I despise.


Your testimony was also a Blessing and I am so happy for you,that God opened your eyes as He usually has to do for all of us at times.I believe you are already being Blessed because you are yeilding to His will and teaching, and I will pray for your continued Blessings and growth.

The combative armor, the debating spirit, must be laid off. The eternal welfare of sinners regulated the conduct of Jesus. People who love to debate have trained their minds to meet opponents and cannot come down to meet hearts that are sorrowing and need comforting. They have also dwelt so much upon the argumentative that they have neglected the practical subjects that the flock of God need.

Debating Christians are generally disqualified to help the flock where they most need help. Having neglected practical religion in their own hearts and lives, they cannot teach it to the flock. Unless there is an excitement, they do not know how to witness for Christ; they seem shorn of their strength.

 

[soblessed53]

Amen,that is what I have seemed to notice about them,not the right heart attitude to either teach or learn. You explained it much better than I,repentandbelieve.

 

[repentandbelieve]

The religion of Christ does not require us to lose our identity of character, but merely to adapt ourselves, in some measure, to the feelings and ways of others. Many people may be brought together in a unity of religious faith whose opinions, habits, and tastes in temporal matters are not in harmony.

Christ sometimes reproved with severity, and in some cases it may be necessary for us to do so; but we should consider that while Christ knew the exact condition of the ones He rebuked, and just the amount of reproof they could bear, and what was necessary to correct their course of wrong, He also knew just how to pity the erring, comfort the unfortunate, and encourage the weak.

But we may misjudge motives; we may be deceived by appearances; we may think we are doing right to reprove wrong, and go too far, censure too severely, and wound where we wished to heal; or we may exercise sympathy unwisely, and counteract reproof that is merited and timely. Our judgment may be wrong, but Jesus was too wise to err. He reproved with pity and loved with a divine love those whom He rebuked.

 

[soblessed53]

Very true, that is why we should pray and ask God before we speak/post ect. However we are not totally in the dark. The Holy spirit helps us to discern.

 

[repentandbelieve]

Very true, that is why we should pray and ask God before we speak/post ect. However we are not totally in the dark. The Holy spirit helps us to discern.

Yes, Christ is the light of the world; in Him is no darkness. Precious light! Let us live in that light! Rejoice in the Lord always; and again I say, Rejoice.

In order to successfully present the treasures of truth to a needy world we must bind ourselves up with the mightiest of all powers.

There is also an enemey who seeks to becloud the discernment of God's people and to weaken their efficiency. Satan tempts people with the "false" sense of excitement that they find in a debate and uses it to destroy their discernment and spiritual eyesight. There is nothing noble, dignified, or sacred in these attachments; as they are prompted by Satan, and the influence is such as to please him.

Warnings to these persons fall unheeded. They are headstrong, self-willed, defiant. They think the warning, counsel, or reproof does not apply to them. Their course gives them no concern. They are continually separating themselves from the light and love of God. They lose all discernment of sacred and eternal things, and while they may keep up a dry form of Christian duties they have no heart in the advancement of Gods cause.

 

[soblessed53]

LOL, Amen another reason I do not participate.

 

[zmastah]

Thank you so much for those kind words ,and I agree 100% with what you said about "tact",but it goes deeper than that, to a right "heart attitude" towards fellow believers,I think. Also I have always believed debate is destructive and nothing good EVER comes of it "An opinion changed against the will,remains the same opinion still".

Now discussion is another matter,entirely especially if it is done with an honest love for the truth and learning. I have had my mind changed many times over the years,because someone had good enough facts and evidence to back up what they were presenting,and it was not done in a demanding,forceful,or arguementive manner,But debate, which is trying to force another to your way of thinking, I despise.

Aha! There's the issue right there! Simple miscommunication. What you call "discussion" is what I call "debate." What you call "debate" is what I call an "argument." You are right on all counts. Nothing good comes from belittling another's ideas, throwing insults, or forcing ideas down another's throats. Certainly no edification takes place.

Discussion, however, is what I meant when I said "debate." As I said before, through discussion, we see other points of view and learn from each other and all are edified.

Apologies to all for this semantic blunder on my part.

 

[repentandbelieve]

[/color]

Aha! There's the issue right there! Simple miscommunication. What you call "discussion" is what I call "debate." What you call "debate" is what I call an "argument." You are right on all counts. Nothing good comes from belittling another's ideas, throwing insults, or forcing ideas down another's throats. Certainly no edification takes place.

Discussion, however, is what I meant when I said "debate." As I said before, through discussion, we see other points of view and learn from each other and all are edified.

Apologies to all for this semantic blunder on my part.

As long as the discussion stems from an earnest desire on the part of the people to investigate the truth it is healthy. The object of the discussion should be that they might get hold of the evidences of the truth themselves or that the other might have a fair understanding of their true position.

 

[bvwsmaker]

A grump who has experienced brokenness to where they're at a point of discovering just how awesome grace truly is has a chance of becoming a former grump. (I'm getting there - slowly - as I patiently discover that God is far different from the many humans who have given me good reasons to be super-pessimistic!) Only God can bring about this change in a human heart - Christians demanding it of the grump never works. The best thing you can do to a grump is pray for them a lot when they can't hear you! (Although another thing is reminding them in a non-threatening graceful way of just how blessed they are - get them thinking specifics which usually leads to them thinking of more and coming to a conclusion that perhaps it's not as bad as they've painted the world to be at the moment!) It takes time!