Growing in Christ

[leastone]

Hi Count:

Pseud is correct in that I have not written here in quite some time. I stopped for a variety of reasons, but most important was my obedience to Him when He told me to leave it alone for a time. Several times in my life the Lord has blessed me with some small "successes" in various "public" arenas, only to pull me out of them after awhile. This usually happens when either I become too attached to "my" message or ministry (thereby flirting dangerously with pride), or others involved start looking to me rather than to the Lord. As much as it hurts each time He has me withdraw, still I praise God for His wisdom in doing this. When I sincerely humble myself in my attitude before Him ("not my will but Thine be done"), each time I find that though I may shrink in the eyes of others, Christ Jesus is magnified.

Your sincerity and depth of thought is evident throughout your response, which is indicative of Holy Spirit at work within you. There is a sense of loneliness and longing within your words that touches me at some deep place of recognition. When Jesus calls one to a closer walk with Him, most often there is a season for the person of separation or withdrawal from other "outside" relationships. I believe there are many reasons the Lord does this; not least is the necessity to establish Himself, through His indwelling Spirit, as the one and only Source for all things to that person. So though it may feel as if you are all alone in your journey, truly you are not alone. Not only is the Lord with you, but you are also surrounded by "clouds of witnesses" - those countless others who have walked this same path before you. And they too were frail and frightened human beings just as you and I are.

Much of what you write in your message concerns discerning the Body of Christ: separating the external, visible Church from the internal, invisible Body. Many of the more undesirable features of outward Christianity used to concern me greatly, but as His Light gradually grows within me I find such concerns fading. In effect, much as He said to Peter, He says to each of us who will listen to Him, "Why worry about things you can do nothing about? Rather, you follow Me!" And for me, learning to follow Him day by day, moment by moment, is about all I can handle anyway.

Finally, in answer to your question "Am I experiencing church life?", I can only truthfully say, "Not very often." But regardless, I long ago determined that I will never let the Lord go, no matter what. He is my very Life and I am nothing apart from Him, so what others do, or whether I sit in a church pew or not, matters little to me...being pleasing to Him matters most of all.

LeastOne

 

[mountaingoat]

This thead is beautiful.

Last night I had the greatest joy to experience Christ on a new level. I was reading the Purpose Driven Life as I was contemplating what GOD wanted me to do and the book was talking about focusing your attention on GOD. GOD just wants me to focus on him and not me or my problems. So my next question was how do I focus on GOD when I can't see him. And the answer was just to ask Jesus to come into your heart, and let him know you want a more intimate relationship with him. As soon as I did that, I felt his presence like never before. It was just a beautiful feeling being so loved. GOD loves us so much, he wants to show us that love we just have to come to him and want him to show us the love HE already has stored up for us...

 

[Count]

Leastone,

Thank you for your quick response. I understand your reason for not writing in a while. We, natural men tend to look to the people who God uses rather than to seek Him. People always tend to seek for a human leader. And the results are disastrous. For this we have the example of King Saul. Also, natural men tend to love being leaders. Thanks God that this doesn't happen with spiritual men. Thank you once again because the rest of us who are learning how to seek Him can see how we are surrounded by "clouds of witnesses" not only from people who have lived in the past, but also from people of our days.

Thank you for what you say concerning the Body of Christ. It is true that we shouldn't be concerned about what others do, or about something we cannot change. It is also true that the position that I am now has come from Him,(as everything happens in our life comes from Him) so it is not the answer to the question "why" that matters to me, but my attitude before Him, regardless the circumstances.

Furthermore, I feel shameful before the Lord when I complain abut trivial things that happen in my life, compared to what the "clouds of witnesses" have gone through. Nevertheless I would like one day to be among a group of Christians with the same desire, to pursue Him, to love Him, to know Him all together as a body. In the meantime, what He choses for me is the best.

 

[Pilgrim1951]

To Leastone and all of you other precious ones who have shared in this thread:

Greetings in Christ Jesus! I read the beginning of this thread sometime last month and was so blessed by the truth and wisdom. Tools of immeasurable value. Almost a year after this thread began, the words rang as true to me as I am certain they had for months to others. When God speaks to a heart which has been broken, and that is shared with others, the truth remains the truth no matter how long it is shared and continues to bless forever. Thank you Leastone and all of you who have shared what God is doing in your hearts! I feel so much at home here. That hasn't happened to me a very long time.

 

[angelwind]

I am new here and what the Lord has given you to teach and share is very timely. I am amazed at His provision.

 

[davidoffinland]

From Finland. Many years ago, I read what Jesus said when he referred to the Shema...Love the Lord your G-d with all your heart and soul and strength, and your neighbor as yourself. This was a gentle slap because I was putting "self" first.

The next scripture that gave another gentle slap was Philippians 1:9, that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight... These 2 have been the motivating principle for about 20 yrs now.

David.

 

[ryan386]

I am new here and what the Lord has given you to teach and share is very timely. I am amazed at His provision.

My words exactly. God has showed me so much and has/is doing so much for me its great. 3 of the things I cannot comprehend about him the most are his Love, mercy, patience, and awesome power. Ok thats 4.

A great thing I have to do continuosly throughout the day is surrender. I have to let go of all the stuff i hold on to, thinking i know better than him. I have lived in great depression my whole life, never truley giving up to God b/c i didn't believe he could love me even tho he was calling me so strongly. After miracle after miracle to get me to see that he loves me, he baisicly opened up heaven one day and shouted down "I still love you and I always will love you". So I surrendered at that moment, but it wasn't a choice I made so much as a choice he made. Anyway I now have to surrender every time I am tempted, every time I try to do things my way and every time my old self tries to creep back. This is usually hard but really wonderfull at the same time and its much harder to face the consequences when i don't surrender. Its only by Gods grace that I am able submit to him and that i can humble myself before him.

Whats ironic is when i finally stopped trying to gain some self-esteem and self-respect the joy came down and I finally had those things just without the "self". Sorry if i'm off topic but when I start speaking/writing about God its so hard for me to stop, he's just so amazing (this is coming from someone who could never confess Jesus' name to anybody including christians, too afraid of what would people think of me). So forgive me if I'm rambeling.

My findings:
Independence = missery Total Dependence on God = Joy & Freedom
Freedom in the world = slavery Slavery to God = Freedom
Exalting self = being degraded Humbling self = Being Exalted
Reasoning = foolishness Faith = wisdom
Judging = being judged Being Merciful = Attaining Mercy

The Lord is great!! !!

 

[angelwind]

This is so wonderful! I began to bow and surrender to the Lord early this summer. In a deeper way than I ever knew. And I wasn't even sure this was the right way to go. Some teaching thru church streams had made me think this was not the right way to "get thru".

But, I have gone thru one red sea after another by learning to surrender and bow before the Lord. Chains are falling off everywhere and not just "in me", but it is affecting my family as well.

I can relate to your post sooo much.

I seem to be finding everthing I wanted and needed in my walk by yielding to His purpose and glory...even if nothing seemed to make sense to me. If my circumstances served Him...and brought glory to Him that was my comfort. This did not feel so comfortable at first, now it is starting to bloom in my heart...His glory is starting to fill my heart. It makes me cry.

He is becoming so much BIGGER, I am becoming less and less...yet I am here and more well in soul and spirit than I have ever been. And I am less afraid of the giants in the land.

 

[brinny]

Forgive me for not reading the entire thread today. However the title of it caught my attention. For it is something I struggle with. I'm in a desert it seems, and I'm 'stuck'. When I'm like this I only let God get so close and then I shut down. Confusion is unsettling to me and it irks me that God would allow me to remain in it. I find it frustrating. Then I wonder what in the world is to be accomplished by it?

Aaaagggghhhhh!

 

[angelwind]

Hi brinny. I used the exact same words at the beginning of this summer of "04". I am "stuck". The Lord has brought me miles and miles in Him since then. He healed a lot of "stubborn" places in my heart...places where I did not bow before Him...places where I thought I had right thinking in my walk with Him and he has adjusted so much. I am still "confined" physically...but beginning to soar like and eagle within. There is a reason why you feel stuck and the Lord wants to deal with you...helping you to let down your defenses so He may get closer. He does see you and has something wonderful in mind for you...He is certainly not confused and you are not lost. He gives freedom to the prisoner and raises up those who are bowed down.

 

[ryan386]

brinny, I know what you mean, I hate those deserts. I think the first thing we must realize is our inferiority to God and his infinite superiority. We can not understand God's ways.

Here are some scriptural truths:
Job 36:26 "How great is God beyond our understanding! The number of his years is past finding out."
Psalm 147:5 "Great is our Lord and mighty in power; his understanding has no limit."
Proverbs 3:5 "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight."
Proverbs 20:24 "A man's steps are directed by the LORD . How then can anyone understand his own way?"
Isaiah 40:28 "Do you not know? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired or weary, and his understanding no one can fathom."

No one can fathom his understanding. Heres how great his understanding is: "By wisdom the LORD laid the earth's foundations,
by understanding he set the heavens in place; by his knowledge the deeps were divided, and the clouds let drop the dew" -Proverbs 3:19
If we cannot put entire galaxy's in place with our understanding then we must realize he knows a little better than we do! It can be tough I know, but we have to trust him. Some of the biggest prophets of God were 'confused' and could not understand why he allowed the things he did. The old testament prophets proves God pulls thru. And now their stories can be what helps you continue trusting him.
I racked my brain so hard trying to understand God. I created my own problems by not trusting God to make everything work together for good. I still have that problem. When will I learn I am not God and accept the fact that he knows a little better than I do

 

[brinny]

I was frozen. Immobilized, and stuck. Miserable and stubborn. I was also angry with God. Sooo angry. He dissolved my control over my life. He took away opportunites for me to try to get it back. I hated that. I hated Him. Yes I did. I told Him so. I told Him defiantly to just let me die. I could've spit nails I was so incensed. So I avoided Him. I ran, and ran, and ran. If I could've run to Mars I would've. But I got boxed in. It was like He was narrowing my world. It got so narrow that I had to slow down and just stop running. Grrrrrr.....I told Him He was driving me crazy. Yes I did. I was sooo frustrated there are no words to describe it.

Then I got tired. I couldn't run anymore. I was broken. The resentment gave way to weariness, a weariness of soul. I preferred oblivion but it was not forthcoming. I spoke to Him, asking Him to either change my heart or let me die.

It was barely noticeable, the change. Yet slowly, and surely, a tenderness pierced through the thick frozen wall surrounding my heart. It was like waking from a long hazy dream. He pricked my heart and stirred my soul. And so it begins...the thaw.

Thank you angelwind and ryan for responding to my earlier posts in this thread. I read your responses yesterday but I didn't respond....I wasn't ready. God bless you for understanding and not judging me.

 

[angelwind]

This post is wonderful brinney. He is dissolving "our" control over our lives and helping us to yield our will to His...but more than just yielding--- making our wills "one" with His.

I believe this speaks for Jesus. And is a heart direction for His disciples:

Sacrifice and offering you do not desire, but you have given me an open ear.

Burnt offering and sin offering you have not required.

Then I said, "Here I am; in the scroll of the book it is written of me.

I delight to do your will, O my God; your law is within my heart." Psalm 40: 6-8

Don't be surprised if it takes Him a while to work with you. You may feel stuck again from time to time. He asked me if I would let Him do a "complete" work. I said yes, I'm not sorry. Can you imagine that? God asking my permission to work in my life...it breaks down my resistance for sure.

 

[brinny]

Don't be surprised if it takes Him a while to work with you. You may feel stuck again from time to time. He asked me if I would let Him do a "complete" work. I said yes, I'm not sorry. Can you imagine that? God asking my permission to work in my life...it breaks down my resistance for sure.

That brings tears to my eyes..His asking permission to do a work in your heart. It reminds me of the sermon today. It was about how God requires our permission before He can do what He must.

He's unfathomable, but I'm beginning to understand Him more and to trust Him more deeply.

Thank you for sharing your own experience. It's encouraging and a reminder that I am not alone in my own struggle.

 

[angelwind]

Thank you for sharing your experience too. For some reason these "seasons" make us feel lonely.

 

[Soulikz]

oh my... thank you so much. i am very young in my journey with god, and you have no idea how much this helped

 

[Bartimaeus]

For me, my recent growth came from Psalms 56: 8... which reads:

You number my wanderings. You put my tears into your bottle. Aren't they in your book?
Psalms 56:8

I've felt so miserably sad lately, and to know that our Lord keeps track of every tear means more to me than I can put into words. It blesses me to know He pays that much attention to my needs...and that it goes beyond knowing the number of hairs on my head, but also knowing how many tears I cried...and why.

 

[favoritetoyisjoy]

Brinny,

I can relate to your "I'm Thawing..." post so very well. While I was reading it I thought to myself, "I could have written that!" I used to punch an imaginary "kill button" on my breast bone with an index finger! Since God hasn't taken us home early, my hope, trust, and anticipation is that He will bring us home happy instead of defeated if we give Him His proper place in our lives (#1).

I had finally come to the place where I knew that everything in my life had been wells without water. The prodigal son scenario had cycled several times in my life over the past 30 years. I decided that I would immerse myself with Him. I watched every Christian program on TV that I could find. I re-read "Experiencing God" by Henry Blackaby, then "Purpose Driven Life" by Rick Warren. (I love Warren's opening line in chapter one, "It's not about you." That one truth made the book valuable to me, and I believe that was exactly what God wanted to say to me, the recovering self-absorbed control freak. I decided that since God was my only hope that I would stick like glue this time, no matter what. I was soon attacked by the powers of darkness, and I let them win at times, but I kept asking myself "but where will I go?"

There was no longer a choice, I had been "everywhere else" many times. I knew from scripture that I would find Him when I sought Him with my whole heart. So I have, and He's manifested Himself to me. I've trusted Him during some very difficult times, it was so hard for me to do. He manifested Himself to me though, proving to me that He cares about me, the individual, in individual circumstances. The most important thing I have done in my spiritual life is to endeavor to fellowship with Him every moment, literally. In doing so, He has become my strength and shield. The result is joy, hence my nickname. I was further encouraged by the book "Practicing His Presence" by Frank Laubach and Brother Lawrence.

I have so far to go, but I wouldn't miss this for the world. I have a reason to live. I never would have thought it possible. I have a simple aspiration in life now, I just want another dose of God! Then another...

There have been so many great things said in this thread, but if I were to boil down all the good things I could say down to one it would be Isaiah 26:3: "Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace whose mind is STAYED on thee..."

ftij

 

[favoritetoyisjoy]

The following is a letter I wrote to one of my brothers. Pam is a sister. It's how I feel right now. I hope it's worth something to someone.




Hi Rick,
Well...I've ordered 5 of those books so I'll be sure to let you know my reaction to them. "Practicing His Presence" really was an excellent book. The first section, by Frank Laubach, is only 37 pages long. It's a journal covering his "experiment" of fellowshipping with God literally every moment in his waking hours. I was in a good place spiritually when I read it and it did a lot for me. The second section, by Brother Lawrence, is actually a series of letters he wrote to various people and has exactly the same theme. I try hard to do the same thing that these guys did. It works. I've learned more and grown more through this than anything else I've ever done. It's nothing more than a throw back to what Pam described two years ago. Pam was fellowshipping with God a lot during her day. She described it to me at the time and it sounded so good. I'm sure it was. It must have been because I'm doing it myself.

We've been taught, by word and example, that we should set aside time for God and have devotions. Do a little Bible, do a little pray, do a little I'm sorry. Do this, do that. Vitamins. That pays our dues and the rest of our day is ours to spend anyway we want, hopefully vaccinated against being bad because we did our devotions. If we get through the day having lived OK then we're doing good. We've hit the mark. It was a fulfilling of a long standing spiritual formula so we're all set. I did this two years ago when I was so hot for God and it didn't sustain me. I fell right through that cloud called "Nine". John Hagee defines idolatry as that which we put ahead of God and I'm OK with that. Who owns our minds?

After that night, when I stepped off the cliff and trusted God completely while reading "Experiencing God", I started the most blissful time of my life and I'll never, ever forget it. It lasted about two months, perhaps three, I don't have a great memory. I was so high on God that He was all I thought about. He manifested Himself to me in dozens and dozens of ways. Breaking this down the best I can, there were two elements to it. He was on my mind all of the time, and He manifested Himself to me continuously. My decline boils down to not trusting Him. He did all the work while it lasted, it was so easy for me.

He was on my mind all the time. He gave me the peace that passeth all understanding. It was weird and wonderful, all at the same time. Felt like the state that I was in when I got saved except that it was continual. I was receiving everything. It must have been like the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve had no idea, they were so innocent AND ignorant. Walking with God in the cool of the day must have become routine. They were receiving, God did everything. To me, their decline boils down to not trusting God. The moment they did that their failure was inevitable. Imagine the horrific contrast in their minds after they fell. It was like that for me two years ago. Had they kept an intense focus on God they wouldn't have fallen and would have continued to enjoy bliss. I wonder how many days, weeks, months, years, or decades that they enjoyed bliss. I lasted 2-3 months. If we could go back in time to the Garden, what would we tell them? I know what I would say, "Focus on God with all of your heart, soul, and might!" (give Him all, give Him all) I would pound on them with this. If God continues to manifest Himself and bless us when our hearts aren't right He can have no standard. We're receiving all we deserve, all of the time, and probably more. Rick, it's such a tragedy, I did the Adam and Eve thing two years ago. God threw me a huge freebee and I blew it. I thought God would continue to be The Candy Man.

I am only a twinkling of an eye away from having it all again, we all are. My faith isn't strong enough this time. I'm building my relationship with God a brick at a time this time, and eventually I'll get the building all the way up to cloud nine, where I was before. I have the desire, I have the hunger and thirst, He's all I think about, all I want to think about. He blesses me and manifests Himself through this enough to keep me going. So far, I am determined and committed. This is different than it was two years ago but I wouldn't miss it for the world. I falter at times but I am determined to keep going. I have to wrestle with Him at times, I've railed on Him at times, I beg, I whine, I pester, I believe, I get delivered, I love Him, I can't turn away any more I can't afford it. Is there a God? yes, did He create the universe? yes, is He in charge? yes, will not the Judge of the whole earth do right? yes, is there any hope for us aside from God? no, is there anything we can't trust Him for? no, is there anything in our lives more important than knowing Him? no, is there anything else in life worth pursuing? no. What are we waiting for? This is it, there's nothing else, no other choices, we burned our ships on the beach.

When I am close to God circumstances are meaningless, when I am close to God my past is meaningless, when I am close to God vocation is meaningless, when I am close to God I have no questions, when I am close to God I am content, when I am close to God I have reason to live, when I am close to God I have purpose, when I am close to God all I want to do is be in fellowship with Him. "Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace whose mind is STAYED on thee..." Rick Warren said something very important in his opening line in the first chapter of "Purpose Driven Life", if you read this one line you can close the book and throw it out the window, for God has spoken. It says, "It's not about you." We want God to be in our agenda and it doesn't work this way, we have to get on God's agenda. When we do, life is reconciled, it's now. I love you.

Scott

 

[Count]

Hi brother,

Thank you very much for the letter. It is fascinating how "Practicing His Presence" has influenced the lives of many people from all over the world. It is the book that I have read many times and will keep reading since it is a book that speaks directly to heart.

Please let me quote some small passages from this book. The one that I am quoting now, I have printed and stuck on the fridge and read it everyday.

"Do not forget the Lord. Think on Him often; adore Him continually. Live and die with Him. This is the glorious employment of a Christian. This is our profession as Christians. If we do not already do this, then we must learn to do it."

"When I fail in my duty I simply admit my faults, saying to God, 'I shall never do otherwise if You leave me to myself. It is You who must stop my falling and it is You who must amend that which is amiss.' After such praying I allow myself no further uneasiness about my faults.

"I have no scruples; for when I fail in my duty I readily acknowledge it saying, 'I am used to doing so, I shall never do otherwise if I am left to myself.' If I do not fail, then I give God thanks, acknowledging that the strength comes from Him."

"We need neither art nor science for going to God. All we need is a heart resolutely determined to apply itself to nothing but Him, for His sake, and to love Him only."

"The most exellent method I hae found of going to God is that of doing common business without any fiew to pleasing men, and as far as I am capable, doing it purely for the love of God."

"I still continue with God, praising and blessing Him with all my might, so that I migt pass my life in continual joy. Yet I hope that God will give me more suffering when I grow stronger."

"All things are possible to him who believes; they are less difficult to him who hopes; they are easier to him who loves, and they are easier still to him who perseveres in the practice of all three of these virtues."

"I recalled His presence as often as I found my mind wandering from Him. I found this to be a very difficult exercise! Yet I continued despite the difficulties I encountered. I did not allow myself to become upset when my mind wandered."

"Do you know the highest kind of life we can experience? There is no thoer life in all the world as sweet and as delightful as the life lived in a continual walk with God. Even as I write such a statement I realize that the only ones who can comprehend it are those who have practiced and experienced that unbroken walk with the Lord."

"If I were a preacher, above everything else I would preach the practice of dwelling in the presence of Christ. If I had its ear, I would advise all the world to practice His presence; this is how necessary and how easy I think it to be.
Oh! If we but knew the need we have of God's presence. If we could only see how greatly we need the Lord's assistance in everything. If we could really see how helpless we are without Him, we would never lose sight of Him, not even for a moment."

"Oh, dear friend, the Lord is not outside of you, pouring down favors. The Lord is within you. Seek Him there, within...and no where else."

"Brother Lawrence was confined to bed two days after writing this last letter, and died the same week. Surely he recognized his Lord very quickly, for while he had been bound by his earthly body his eyes of faith rarely looked anywhere but upon the Lord."