Greek Orthodox Bishop calls the Turks "Barbarians"

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MariaRegina

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Last Updated: Friday, 5 December, 2003, 00:16 GMT

Greek archbishop brands Turks 'barbarians'


By Richard Galpin
BBC Athens correspondent

The head of the Orthodox Christian Church in Greece, Archbishop Christodoulos, has provoked a diplomatic storm with neighbouring Turkey by describing Turks as barbarians who should not be allowed to join the EU.

The Greek Government has distanced itself from the remarks, saying it wanted the European Union to be extended to include Turkey.

Christodoulos is known for his outspoken views
Archbishop Christodoulos made the remarks during a sermon delivered in a packed church in the capital, which was filled by local television stations.

Referring to the Turks, he said barbarians could not come into what he called the family of Christians.

"We cannot live together," he said.

The archbishop is no stranger to controversy and is well-known for his conservative views.

But this latest outburst has clearly angered the Greek Government, drawing an immediate response from the foreign minister, who has been working hard to improve relations with Turkey.

Power struggle

He said the vast majority of the Greek population supported a vision of peace and stability across the region - a vision which he said was becoming reality with the completion of the European Union.

The Greek Government is a strong supporter of Turkey's bid for EU membership.

Athens believes it is in its own national interest after the long years of Turkish occupation during the Ottoman Empire and the continuing hostility, which has almost led to war on several occasions.

But the archbishop's comments may not have been motivated purely by his objection to Turkey joining the European Union.

It may also stem from his power struggle with the overall head of the Orthodox Church, who is based in Istanbul.

They are currently at loggerheads over who has the final say in the appointment of bishops in northern Greece.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3292835.stm
 

Orthodox Andrew

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If you have ever been to Turkey (Other than maybe Istanbul or Ankara) you have a good chance of coming to the same conclusion that Archbishop Christodoulos did. However, I think the more Christian thing to say would have been the rulers of Turkey act like barbarians. But being Greek myself and understanding the history, I can certainly understand where Archbishop Christodoulos is coming from.
 
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Matrona

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chanter said:
Last Updated: Friday, 5 December, 2003, 00:16 GMT

Greek archbishop brands Turks 'barbarians'


By Richard Galpin
BBC Athens correspondent

The head of the Orthodox Christian Church in Greece, Archbishop Christodoulos, has provoked a diplomatic storm with neighbouring Turkey by describing Turks as barbarians who should not be allowed to join the EU.
Oh dear... :o

It was probably the least-diplomatic thing Archbishop Christodoulos could have said... but I guess we have to remember that wounds, like the ones inflicted on Christians under Ottoman rule, take a long time to heal and don't always heal even with the passing of a generation. (How many of us get just a little bitter when remembering the 13th-century sacking of Constantinople, be honest now, come on...) We also have to remember the continued Turkish domination of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, and how this probably sets a lot of peoples' teeth on edge, especially in the Church of Greece. I think now is the time to pray for understanding between the different cultures....
 
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Orthodox Andrew

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Matrona said:
Oh dear... :o

It was probably the least-diplomatic thing Archbishop Christodoulos could have said... but I guess we have to remember that wounds, like the ones inflicted on Christians under Ottoman rule, take a long time to heal and don't always heal even with the passing of a generation. (How many of us get just a little bitter when remembering the 13th-century sacking of Constantinople, be honest now, come on...) We also have to remember the continued Turkish domination of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, and how this probably sets a lot of peoples' teeth on edge, especially in the Church of Greece. I think now is the time to pray for understanding between the different cultures....

So true. But let's not forget that the problems between the Turks and the Greeks are not just a thing of the past, but there are many modern problems going on everyday.
 
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Matrona

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chanter said:
Wasn't the last Ecumenical Patriarch killed by the Turks due to starvation, and lack of sufficient rest due to the continual bombings of the Patriarchiate? This is recent history folks.
Where the blankety blank was the United Nations in all of this?! Or perhaps the international media, or Amnesty International?! :eek: :scratch:

/me goes off to say her nightly prayers, going to mention the EP in them tonight for sure...
 
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cleopa_of_emmaus

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chanter said:
The head of the Orthodox Christian Church in Greece, Archbishop Christodoulos, has provoked a diplomatic storm with neighbouring Turkey by describing Turks as barbarians who should not be allowed to join the EU.
As the saying goes, "It is better to be thought a fool and silent, than to open one's mouth and prove it."

I think everybody is aware of the animosity that exists between the Greeks and the Turks, but for someone in Bishop Chrisodoulos' position to make such a statement shows a lack of leadership (or more likely a few too many shots of ouzo). :D

~cleopa (another fool)^_^
 
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A person has to wonder why Turkey should be even considered for the EU? Given the treatment of the Christian community in Turkey, there is no freedom of religion there, and it would be another wide open door for Moslems to filter in. His Beatitude Archbishop CHRISTODOULOS is showing excellent leadership in calling a spade a spade, and his voice should be heeded.
Jeff the Finn
 
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cleopa_of_emmaus

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What do you mean there is no freedom of religion in Turkey? Non-muslim religions are granted special minority status, and the government imposes some limits on both Muslims and non-Muslims in their attempt to adhere to secularism. Of course there are frictions, but there are frictions everywhere. Look at how non-Orthodox religions are treated in Greece. Privileges and legal prerogatives granted to the Greek Orthodox Church are not extended routinely to other recognized religions. The non-Greek Orthodox churches are required to provide separate and lengthy applications to government authorities to get permission to move places of worship to larger facilities. In contrast Greek Orthodox officials have an institutionalized link between the church hierarchy and the Ministry of Education and Religion to handle administrative matters. If you ask me, the Greeks have a lot to learn about "religious freedom" as well.


~cleopa
 
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MariaRegina

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On the Internet, I came across an open letter by an Eastern Catholic hierarch from Turkey who is warning Rome about the Turks. He didn't use very flattering words either.

I'll see if I can find it again. If you check www.islamreview.com
you can find a wealth of information about islam. I think the Eastern Catholic hierarch's letter is mentioned there or at least quoted.

Please don't enter .org as that site is anti-American and anti-Christian bigotry.
 
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Orthodox Andrew

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cleopa_of_emmaus said:
What do you mean there is no freedom of religion in Turkey? Non-muslim religions are granted special minority status, and the government imposes some limits on both Muslims and non-Muslims in their attempt to adhere to secularism. Of course there are frictions, but there are frictions everywhere. Look at how non-Orthodox religions are treated in Greece. Privileges and legal prerogatives granted to the Greek Orthodox Church are not extended routinely to other recognized religions. The non-Greek Orthodox churches are required to provide separate and lengthy applications to government authorities to get permission to move places of worship to larger facilities. In contrast Greek Orthodox officials have an institutionalized link between the church hierarchy and the Ministry of Education and Religion to handle administrative matters. If you ask me, the Greeks have a lot to learn about "religious freedom" as well.


~cleopa





The religious friction is caused by Turkey's own government. We are talking about a country that teaches their children through the education system that Christians are rapists and murders.

Turkey is terribly inhumane. Take a look at the modern day Cyprus issue or the Kurdish issue.
 
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nicodemus

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cleopa_of_emmaus said:
What do you mean there is no freedom of religion in Turkey? Non-muslim religions are granted special minority status, and the government imposes some limits on both Muslims and non-Muslims in their attempt to adhere to secularism. Of course there are frictions, but there are frictions everywhere.
Orthodox clergy in Turkey have to go abroad to seminary because the Turkish government closed down all Orthodox seminaries and still won't let them re-open.

Look at how non-Orthodox religions are treated in Greece. Privileges and legal prerogatives granted to the Greek Orthodox Church are not extended routinely to other recognized religions. The non-Greek Orthodox churches are required to provide separate and lengthy applications to government authorities to get permission to move places of worship to larger facilities. In contrast Greek Orthodox officials have an institutionalized link between the church hierarchy and the Ministry of Education and Religion to handle administrative matters. If you ask me, the Greeks have a lot to learn about "religious freedom" as well.
Eventhough Orthodoxy is the official state religion of Greece, you can still find plenty of other religions there. One can find a whole host of other churches/religions there by doing a quick internet search. The Greek ministry of religion also gives money to the Islamic, Catholic & Jewish communities in Greece. Of course they don't get as much money as only 1% of the population isn't Orthodox. Right now, there are plans to build a mosque in the Olympic village in Athens for use by atheletes from Islamic countries. That sounds pretty helpful to me.
 
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MariaRegina

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How deceptive is islam!

First look at www.islamreview.com

Then look at .islamreview.org (I deliberately avoided the www.)

The website: islamreview.org is simply horrible and is designed to convert Americans to Islam. When I first opened it, it seemed to be for us. Next I opened up the site and investigated the different books. I found cartoons and lovely pictures all posted to deceive our young children. This is horrible. IT CALLS FOR OPEN JIHAD AGAINST CHRISTIANS. :pray: :pray: :pray:

THIS HORRIBLE PROPAGANDA IS GEARED TO OUR YOUNG CHILDREN AND TEENS.
 
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MariaRegina

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Warning: This site is very deceptive. I hope the moderators will allow this posting to remain so that all can see how muslims are propagating their faith in America. The author "Anwar Shaikh" is using cartoon-style books to entice our young minds to be terrorists, because he encourages them to believe in jihad. This is sick.

I have deliberately left off the www. so that it would not be a hot link.

islamreview.org/AnwarShaikh/eternity/chapter7.html
 
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Orthodox Andrew

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chanter said:
Look at the above website: islamreview.org. It is simply horrible and designed to convert Americans to Islam. When I first opened it, it was so deceiving. This is horrible. IT CALLS FOR OPEN JIHAD AGAINST CHRISTIANS. :pray: :pray: :pray:

THIS IS HORRIBLE PROPAGANDA GEARED TO OUR YOUNG CHILDREN AND TEENS.
You will find crazies in every religion.:sigh:
 
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