Greed

[Non sequitur]

Then you'd better start unloading your assets, cutting back on your lifestyle and pounding the pavement looking for something better. But your lifestyle is not the problem for the manager at Chick-fil-A

Of course not.

Corporations should not think about a society, as a whole, and are people, too.

 

[Theofane]

Hmm. Let's say that there is a lake nearby that provides water to a local town. It's also available for recreational use. But I want the lake to myself. So I buy it and the surrounding land. And I stop allowing the town to use it as a water source. Nor do I allow anyone near the lake.

Am I being greedy?

Yes, but more importantly do you consider greed to be a sin or a virtue? Are you an admirer of Ayn Rand? Greedy people almost always admire their own greed.

 

[MachZer0]

Speaking from experience, that isn't always the case. I know families of 3-4 that lead very frugal lifestyles and they still have trouble getting by in today's economy.

The point is, they're getting by . And it isn't the Chick-fil-A manager's responsibility to see that happen.

 

[dlamberth]

Greed is still considered a sin.

I see this as the heart of the issue. The way I understand it now it is that for "some" greed still is considered a sin. But it's clear that for others they have a different understanding.

.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Speaking from experience, that isn't always the case. I know families of 3-4 that lead very frugal lifestyles and they still have trouble getting by in today's economy.

Clearly that's not possible. In America all one needs is a go-get-'em attitude and offer a bit of sweat and all of us can be living the American Dream™.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

The point is, they're getting by . And it isn't the Chick-fil-A manager's responsibility to see that happen.

Whatever happened to equal pay for a day's work, or whatever the saying is? You know, I spend twelve hours a day working for your company and making you money while you sit around relaxing in a cool, comfortable office, and in return you pay me a nice wage?

 

[MachZer0]

Whatever happened to equal pay for a day's work, or whatever the saying is? You know, I spend twelve hours a day working for your company and making you money while you sit around relaxing in a cool, comfortable office, and in return you pay me a nice wage?

I don't recall we ever had such a thing as equal pay for a day's work.

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

I don't recall we ever had such a thing as equal pay for a day's work.

I know that, but I seem to remember it being an old proverb or something. It's cropping up in my mind like I've heard it before.

*EDIT* Well, that didn't take long. Here is one source where it crops up.

 

[MachZer0]

I know that, but I seem to remember it being an old proverb or something. It's cropping up in my mind like I've heard it before.

*EDIT* Well, that didn't take long. Here is one source where it crops up.

That isn't even close to what you said.

 

[bricklayer]

Whatever happened to equal pay for a day's work, or whatever the saying is? You know, I spend twelve hours a day working for your company and making you money while you sit around relaxing in a cool, comfortable office, and in return you pay me a nice wage?

I sincerely hope that you improve yourself and are able to employ not only your own efforts but the efforts of others also. However, given your above understanding of the economics involved, I infer that you are sorely employable yourself.
Good luck with that equal outcome thing; you may want to brace yourself there.

 

[SmellsLikeCurlyFries]

That isn't even close to what you said.

A fair day's wages for a fair day's work? Sounds pretty close to me...

 

[conamer]

*Sigh* The constant theme is liberals here crying that conservatives don't care about the poor because they don't like others taking their money in the claim that they care about the poor. And those that "care" are always telling others what to do with their money or that they aren't doing enough. There is a plank in your eye. Then liberals say conservatives don't do enough for the poor without of course, knowing what said person does do for the poor.

When it comes right down to it, the only "proof" liberals have for justification for pointing the finger at conservative is that we don't want high taxes for anyone. Then claim we only want "tax cuts for the rich". Hilarious. Yet if the Bush tax cut were ended today the lowest income people would see their taxes go from 15% to 20%. What's the matter, don't you care about the poor children? So I guess it's greedy to want lower taxes for everyone? Got it.

Guess what? You don't know what I do for the poor. I won't tell you because Jesus said not to. It's not like I'm Oprah. I'm not broadcasting my giving, so stop acting as if your lamentations are going to show how you care for the poor. An emotion doesn't DO anything for the poor. Just like love isn't an emotion, it's an action. You love by what you DO. Talk is cheap, unless you're congress.

 

[whatbogsends]

*Sigh* The constant theme is liberals here crying that conservatives don't care about the poor because they don't like others taking their money in the claim that they care about the poor. And those that "care" are always telling others what to do with their money or that they aren't doing enough. There is a plank in your eye. Then liberals say conservatives don't do enough for the poor without of course, knowing what said person does do for the poor.

When it comes right down to it, the only "proof" liberals have for justification for pointing the finger at conservative is that we don't want high taxes for anyone. Then claim we only want "tax cuts for the rich". Hilarious. Yet if the Bush tax cut were ended today the lowest income people would see their taxes go from 15% to 20%. What's the matter, don't you care about the poor children? So I guess it's greedy to want lower taxes for everyone? Got it.

Guess what? You don't know what I do for the poor. I won't tell you because Jesus said not to. It's not like I'm Oprah. I'm not broadcasting my giving, so stop acting as if your lamentations are going to show how you care for the poor. An emotion doesn't DO anything for the poor. Just like love isn't an emotion, it's an action. You love by what you DO. Talk is cheap, unless you're congress.

No, the constant theme from liberals is that labor has been significantly devalued over the last 30 years, and that this is a real problem in our economy.

 

[DaisyDay]

*Sigh* [I'm generous]

An emotion doesn't DO anything for the poor. Just like love isn't an emotion, it's an action. You love by what you DO. Talk is cheap, unless you're congress.

Love is an emotion, but you're right that an emotion doesn't do anything, action does (sort of the definition of action). Government programs have done so much for our poor that many here claim that America no longer has any poor. This is a good thing.

For those who are worried that there might not be enough impoverished people to bestow their charity upon, there are plenty of poor to be found in Haiti, Mali, etc.

 

[conamer]

Love is an emotion, but you're right that an emotion doesn't do anything, action does (sort of the definition of action). Government programs have done so much for our poor that many here claim that America no longer has any poor. This is a good thing.

For those who are worried that there might not be enough impoverished people to bestow their charity upon, there are plenty of poor to be found in Haiti, Mali, etc.

So to love the poor all I have to do is tell then about all my emotions and good feelings for them.

 

[DaisyDay]

So to love the poor all I have to do is tell then about all my emotions and good feelings for them.

Non-sequitur. What has "telling" got to do with anything?

 

[Umaro]

Thanks for providing an example, Umaro.

Just one question for you. Why should Chick-fil-A pay employees enough for a family of four to live comfortably?

Here are some additional questions for your consideration, as well ...

Do you believe that all businesses should pay employees enough for a family of four to live in middle-class comfort? What about high school kids ... should they earn as much as middle-age employees who have learned a business through years of experience ... and who are paying to put their kids through college? Do you believe that there should be such a thing as entry level jobs? Have you considered that people who choose to invest in eight years of college might provide more value to a company or business?

This is the part I don't understand. This honestly confuses me. You just finished telling me that Christians' charity will be there to help the less fortunate, and that Christians are very proud that they teach a man to fish rather than give him one, but as soon as someone suggests that a company proclaiming itself Christian like Chick-fil-a uses some of that charity I keep hearing about to help it's own workers, it's "why should they help?"

Sure, Chick-fil-a can use it's economic leverage to take 65% of the stores earnings, but why not use their charity to only take say 30%? They'd still be making a very large profit, but would help the poor substantially. I don't know where you get the idea that paying above a poverty level wouldn't be considered an entry level job, or that a family of 4 shouldn't be able to work at Chick-fil-a. If you paid them $20k instead of $15k, I don't think they'd be dissuaded from seeking out employment and skills to earn $40k, $50k, etc.

I just don't see the point in forcing so much of the profits to be handed over. We've got people like Mach saying that if a family of four gets laid off and can only find Chick-fil-a work, that they should sell off all their possessions to stay afloat? How is that possibly a good society to live in? Wouldn't it be more Christian and follow the claims you keep making if the charity was to just flex that economic muscle a little less hard? Why shouldn't they be able to avoid selling their things off despite being employed full time?

I mean, I just have to ask, where does all that charity go as soon as someone talks about sharing the profits your workers generate for you? When a company is taking 65% of it's workers wages, and kicks back far less than they take patting themselves on the back for their "charity," it really comes off as a negative image.

 

[MachZer0]

This is the part I don't understand. This honestly confuses me. You just finished telling me that Christians' charity will be there to help the less fortunate, and that Christians are very proud that they teach a man to fish rather than give him one, but as soon as someone suggests that a company proclaiming itself Christian like Chick-fil-a uses some of that charity I keep hearing about to help it's own workers, it's "why should they help?"

Sure, Chick-fil-a can use it's economic leverage to take 65% of the stores earnings, but why not use their charity to only take say 30%? They'd still be making a very large profit, but would help the poor substantially. I don't know where you get the idea that paying above a poverty level wouldn't be considered an entry level job, or that a family of 4 shouldn't be able to work at Chick-fil-a. If you paid them $20k instead of $15k, I don't think they'd be dissuaded from seeking out employment and skills to earn $40k, $50k, etc.

I just don't see the point in forcing so much of the profits to be handed over. We've got people like Mach saying that if a family of four gets laid off and can only find Chick-fil-a work, that they should sell off all their possessions to stay afloat? How is that possibly a good society to live in? Wouldn't it be more Christian and follow the claims you keep making if the charity was to just flex that economic muscle a little less hard? Why shouldn't they be able to avoid selling their things off despite being employed full time?

I mean, I just have to ask, where does all that charity go as soon as someone talks about sharing the profits your workers generate for you? When a company is taking 65% of it's workers wages, and kicks back far less than they take patting themselves on the back for their "charity," it really comes off as a negative image.

Here is the charitable foundation, WinShape, started by the owners of Chick-fil-A. You can read all about how they're using their wealth to help others.

 

[whatbogsends]

Here is the charitable foundation, WinShape, started by the owners of Chick-fil-A. You can read all about how they're using their wealth to help others.

Those owners didn't get that wealth on their own though. The owners only were able to acquire that wealth by profiting off their employees. They're taking wealth earned from one group (their employees) and re-distributing part of it (although pocketing most of it for themselves).

 

[NightHawkeye]

This is the part I don't understand. This honestly confuses me. You just finished telling me that Christians' charity will be there to help the less fortunate, and that Christians are very proud that they teach a man to fish rather than give him one, but as soon as someone suggests that a company proclaiming itself Christian like Chick-fil-a uses some of that charity I keep hearing about to help it's own workers, it's "why should they help?"

Consider Wendy's and Target then. Wendy's supports adoption ... and has for years. Wendy's founder, Dave Thomas had a soft spot for adoption and contributed regularly to the cause. Wendy's still supports that cause. Target donates a portion of their sales receipts to local schools.

Getting back to Chick-fil-A ... I suppose you could claim Chick-fil-A is responsible for unemployment in the inner city because they're closed on Sundays. If Chick-fil-A were open on Sundays, then a lot more people would be employed, right? Or, maybe that's a fallacious argument?

I didn't really know much about Chick-fil-A ... except they closed on Sundays. Armed with Internet Explorer though, I looked. Here's what their website says about some charitable work:

Sponsorships
Fourteen years after the chain signed on as the first-ever title sponsor of the Chick-fil-A Peach Bowl – and five years after the debut of the newly renamed Chick-fil-A Bowl® – the classic college football match-up and longest-running rivalry between Atlantic Coast Conference (ACC) and Southeastern Conference (SEC) teams continues to set records. The 2010 Chick-fil-A Bowl drew a 14th-consecutive sellout crowd to Atlanta's Georgia Dome to witness the December 31 clash between the ACC's Florida State Seminoles and the SEC's South Carolina Gamecocks. The sold-out game continues to lead all bowls in charitable donations to a variety of charities, including WinShape Homes®, and provided a record $6.7 million total payout to participating universities. Furthering its partnership with college sports, Chick-fil-A is a proud corporate partner of the Big 12.

Charities / Scholarships
WinShape Foundation was founded more than 20 years ago by Truett and Jeannette Cathy. Under the WinShape Foundation umbrella, there are several programs, including WinShape Homes®, which currently operates 11 foster care homes in Georgia, Tennessee and Alabama. The WinShape College Program℠ at Berry College in Rome, Georgia, is a co-op program offering joint four-year scholarship funding to incoming freshmen of up to $32,000. WinShape Camps℠ offers boys and girls summer programs at the college, which will be attended by more than 13,000 campers in 2011.
Additionally, WinShape also operates the WinShape Retreat℠, which offers a sequestered setting for marriage support and counseling and other gatherings on the Mountain Campus of Berry College. Held at WinShape Retreat, WinShape Marriage℠ aims to help married couples by offering intervention for couples in crisis, preparation for engaged couples and enrichment for those interested in growing their marriage.
WinShape Wilderness℠ is dedicated to using adventure to equip people to experience real change, not just in a team setting, but also through personal transformation. WinShape Wilderness is an outdoor adventure program that facilitates experiential learning for all audiences in ropes course settings as well as canoeing, rock climbing and backpacking venues.
Finally, WinShape International℠ was founded in January 2005 with a mission to mobilize leaders to transform young people and communities around the world.
Chick-fil-A Leadership Scholarship Program: Chick-fil-A separately offers $1,000 college scholarships to certain qualified franchised Operator Restaurant employees, a Chick-fil-A tradition that has awarded over $26 million in scholarships.
​

Sure, Chick-fil-a can use it's economic leverage to take 65% of the stores earnings, but why not use their charity to only take say 30%?

Your math is in error here. Adding apples and oranges doesn't yield tangerines ... but I digress ...

They'd still be making a very large profit, but would help the poor substantially. I don't know where you get the idea that paying above a poverty level wouldn't be considered an entry level job, or that a family of 4 shouldn't be able to work at Chick-fil-a. If you paid them $20k instead of $15k, I don't think they'd be dissuaded from seeking out employment and skills to earn $40k, $50k, etc.

Good ... you've thought this through. Now, you're ready for the next step - investing your own money. You understand the business model well and you're ready to start your own store. Congratulations ... you'll become the shining light for the world in how to run a business profitably while also elevating the living standards of the local community where your business is located.

I had a friend who started a restaurant twenty years ago. It was a beautiful restaurant ... just what the community needed ... inside decor was remarkable ... much nicer than the chain restaurants ... and the food was great. He pulled the plug on it less than a year later. Manager was stealing from him. The staff used the restaurant to furnish their houses with silverware ... repeatedly apparently - maybe it went to friends and relatives as well.

My friend already owned a successful business, but he was unprepared for how brutal the restaurant business is. His main problems were the employees though ... well, that and not enough customers, LOL.


Was he a good guy, Umaro? Or was he an evil business man? He couldn't afford to keep the business going.

I just don't see the point in forcing so much of the profits to be handed over. We've got people like Mach saying that if a family of four gets laid off and can only find Chick-fil-a work, that they should sell off all their possessions to stay afloat? How is that possibly a good society to live in? Wouldn't it be more Christian and follow the claims you keep making if the charity was to just flex that economic muscle a little less hard? Why shouldn't they be able to avoid selling their things off despite being employed full time?

I mean, I just have to ask, where does all that charity go as soon as someone talks about sharing the profits your workers generate for you? When a company is taking 65% of it's workers wages, and kicks back far less than they take patting themselves on the back for their "charity," it really comes off as a negative image.

Yep ... now that you've got it figured out ... you're ready to start your own business, Umaro. Your choice ... either start your own business so that you can demonstrate how a business should be run, or just continue to whine and moan about all those nasty evil companies.

Kinda looks to me like Chick-fil-A donates a considerable amount to charity. It's just never enough though, is it ... oh wait, is your real problem with Chick-fil-A that you don't like the charities which they support? Family values charities, Christian charities, educational scholarships, employee's families.