Greasy Grace?

[sunlover1]

Discussing death with a friend who said he wasn't scared to die because He was going to Heaven. I asked how he could be so sure, and he said that it was because Jesus died for His sins.
I said, is that it then? Don't we have to obey Him?
This person does as he wishes, is fine with sex before marriage, getting intoxicated,
lying if it's convenient etc.
Caused me to really think about this!
Doesn't sound right! :/
Please share your thoughts!

 

[Rick Otto]

Discussing death with a friend who said he wasn't scared to die because He was going to Heaven. I asked how he could be so sure, and he said that it was because Jesus died for His sins.
I said, is that it then? Don't we have to obey Him?
This person does as he wishes, is fine with sex before marriage, getting intoxicated,
lying if it's convenient etc.
Caused me to really think about this!
Doesn't sound right! :/
Please share your thoughts!

Sounds like he's taking too much for granted.
The two greatest commandments help in these cases.

 

[Noxot]

God shall not save you unless you are willing. you shall reap what you sow. don't cast your pearls before swine. the gentiles tread the outer courts for 42 months. Gods grace is occurring as he does love us, but how can we be saved if we don't love? what good will it do if I am given food and clothing but I rip them off like a demon possessed man and throw the free foods at the face of the kind one that gave it to me?

now then I would praise God over my folly for others shall see and run away from me and so God uses my own folly for his good. ah, Gods grace is so good, but the kingdom would have already came if only Gods freedom was involved in salvation.

seems like the two extremes are "i'm saved no matter what" and "no matter what i gotta get saved" both are very dangerous, or I mean they can be. they could be good too.

 

[Albion]

Discussing death with a friend who said he wasn't scared to die because He was going to Heaven. I asked how he could be so sure, and he said that it was because Jesus died for His sins.
I said, is that it then? Don't we have to obey Him?
This person does as he wishes, is fine with sex before marriage, getting intoxicated,
lying if it's convenient etc.
Caused me to really think about this!
Doesn't sound right! :/
Please share your thoughts!

No Christian church that I know of would agree with his reasoning, but neither do I think that obeying is the key to salvation. It's Faith, which if genuine will necessarily produce a willingness or desire to obey...which this fellow apparently doesn't have.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Easy believism is a somewhat derogatory term used by opponents of the view that one needs only to believe in Jesus in order to be saved. From this they conclude that those who hold to sola fide (“faith alone”) teach that no corresponding need exists for a committed life of Christian discipleship as proof of salvation; however, that is not what sola fide means. True faith in Christ will always lead to a changed life. Another common usage of the term easy believism is in regards to those who believe they’re saved because they prayed a prayer—with no real conviction of sin and no real faith in Christ. Praying a prayer is easy—thus the term easy believism—but there is more to salvation than mouthing words.

Much of the debate over easy believism is unnecessary and is based on a misunderstanding of the Scriptures. The Bible is clear that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. The essence of this doctrine is found in Ephesians 2:8–9: “For by grace are you saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast.” So we see that faith, given as a gift by God, is what saves us. But the next verse tells of the results of that salvation: “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” Rather than being saved by some easy act of our own wills, we are saved by the hand of God Almighty, by His will and for His use. We are His servants, and from the moment of salvation by faith, we embark on a journey of pre-ordained good works that are the evidence of that salvation. If there is no evidence of growth and good works, we have reason to doubt that salvation ever truly took place. “Faith without works is dead” (James 2:20), and a dead faith is not a saving faith.

“Faith alone” does not mean that some believers follow Christ in a life of discipleship, while others do not. The concept of the “carnal Christian,” as a separate category of non-spiritual believer, is completely unscriptural. The idea of the carnal Christian says that a person may receive Christ as Savior during a religious experience but never manifest evidence of a changed life. This is a false and dangerous teaching in that it excuses various ungodly lifestyles: a man may be an unrepentant adulterer, liar, or thief, but he’s “saved” because he prayed a prayer as a child; he’s just a “carnal Christian.” The Bible nowhere supports the idea that a true Christian can remain carnal for an entire lifetime. Rather, God’s Word presents only two categories of people: Christians and non-Christians, believers and unbelievers, those who have bowed to the Lordship of Christ and those who have not (see John 3:36; Romans 6:17–18; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 5:18–24; Ephesians 2:1–5; 1 John 1:5–7; 2:3–4).

While the security of salvation is a biblical fact based upon the finished work of salvation by Christ, it is certainly true that some of those who seemed to have “made a decision” or “accepted Christ” may not genuinely be saved. As noted before, true salvation is not so much our accepting Christ as it is His accepting us. We are saved by the power of God for the purpose of God, and that purpose includes the works that give evidence of our conversion. Those who continue to walk according to the flesh are not believers (Romans 8:5–8). This is why Paul exhorts us to “examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith” (2 Corinthians 13:5). The “carnal” Christian who examines himself will soon see that he/she is not in the faith.

James 2:19 says, “You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!” The type of “belief” demons have can be compared to the intellectual assent made by those who “believe” in Jesus in the fact that He exists or that He was a good person. Many unbelievers say, “I believe in God” or “I believe in Jesus”; others say, “I prayed a prayer, and the preacher said I was saved.” But such prayers and such belief do not necessarily signal a change of heart. The problem is a misunderstanding of the word believe. With true salvation comes genuine repentance and real life change. Second Corinthians 5:17 says that those who are in Christ are a “new creation.” Is it possible that the new person Christ creates is one who continues to walk in the carnality of the flesh? No.

Salvation is certainly free, but, at the same time, it costs us everything. We are to die to ourselves as we change into the likeness of Christ. Where easy believism fails is its lack of recognition that a person with faith in Jesus will lead a progressively changed life. Salvation is a free gift from God to those who believe, but discipleship and obedience are the response that will no doubt occur when one truly comes to Christ in faith.

 

[chapmic]

The English word " to believe" doesn't fully explain the depth of belief that is required. In the Gospel, Jesus told people to follow him. This type of belief requires action, James explain how faith ties in with works. So a believer is bearing fruit, just like Jesus did when he walked the Earth. I hope this helps! God bless!

 

[Standing Up]

Faith isn't 007 like, as a license to sin. Paul says we're saved by grace, but do we thus go sin? Heaven no. Romans 6:15.

 

[sunlover1]

Sounds like he's taking too much for granted.
The two greatest commandments help in these cases.

Well since we're saved by faith alone, then
it's between the person and God, but wow.
I mean this guy is SO confident of His destination
and said that while sure, life is good, look at how
great it will be in Heaven.
And I'm thinking.. but but but but.. you don't see
any fruit! and in fact, i see some umm,, not
so sweet fruits.
So it's strange!
But God is able, huh?!
Not my circus not my monkeys?

God shall not save you unless you are willing. you shall reap what you sow. don't cast your pearls before swine. the gentiles tread the outer courts for 42 months. Gods grace is occurring as he does love us, but how can we be saved if we don't love? what good will it do if I am given food and clothing but I rip them off like a demon possessed man and throw the free foods at the face of the kind one that gave it to me?

Wow, you have no idea how much you said here.
Mind blown.

now then I would praise God over my folly for others shall see and run away from me and so God uses my own folly for his good. ah, Gods grace is so good, but the kingdom would have already came if only Gods freedom was involved in salvation.

seems like the two extremes are "i'm saved no matter what" and "no matter what i gotta get saved" both are very dangerous, or I mean they can be. they could be good too.

I know.. this is good food for thought!

No Christian church that I know of would agree with his reasoning, but neither do I think that obeying is the key to salvation. It's Faith, which if genuine will necessarily produce a willingness or desire to obey...which this fellow apparently doesn't have.

*shrug
Very disconcerting.

 

[Albion]

*shrug
Very disconcerting.

Don't leave me in suspense, Sun. What are you saying there? I didn't think my post was particularly unusual or controversial, so you have me guessing.

 

[sunlover1]

Don't leave me in suspense, Sun. What are you saying there? I didn't think my post was particularly unusual or controversial, so you have me guessing.

It just bugs me that this person could be confused and assuming something, and may never know.
he's a staunch RC. So probably assumes that if he's been baptized he's all good.
Sorry i was so ambiguous!
But what you said, yes, i agree.
No church would be down with that attitude.

 

[Albion]

It just bugs me that this person could be confused and assuming something, and may never know.

I know. It's upsetting, isn't it?

 

[Soyeong]

Discussing death with a friend who said he wasn't scared to die because He was going to Heaven. I asked how he could be so sure, and he said that it was because Jesus died for His sins.
I said, is that it then? Don't we have to obey Him?
This person does as he wishes, is fine with sex before marriage, getting intoxicated,
lying if it's convenient etc.
Caused me to really think about this!
Doesn't sound right! :/
Please share your thoughts!

Our salvation is from sin and that means that we are in the process of being made to stop sinning. When God grants us repentance, He is saving us. There is no salvation without repentance because going our own way instead of obeying God is what He is saving us from.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Discussing death with a friend who said he wasn't scared to die because He was going to Heaven. I asked how he could be so sure, and he said that it was because Jesus died for His sins.
I said, is that it then? Don't we have to obey Him?
This person does as he wishes, is fine with sex before marriage, getting intoxicated,
lying if it's convenient etc.
Caused me to really think about this!
Doesn't sound right! :/
Please share your thoughts!

there's no such thing as dying and going to heaven or hell.

the bible simply doesn't say that!

Hebrews 9:27(NKJV)
27And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

this judgment happens one thousand years after the return of Jesus in His glory.

at that time the fate of those who don't rise in the first resurrection will be determined, (see rev 20:4-6 and 11-12 especially v5).

remember, Jesus said:

Matthew 10:15(NKJV)
15Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!

surely this verse attests to the fact that the people of sodom and gomarrah are not in "hell" burning.

they are like everyone else who has died, not in Christ, waiting for the judgment.

so if your friend is truly in this boat, then after his death, he too will be awaiting the judgement also as the author of hebrews states.

 

[sunlover1]

Thank you. Interesting!

 

[Standing Up]

It just bugs me that this person could be confused and assuming something, and may never know.
he's a staunch RC. So probably assumes that if he's been baptized he's all good.
Sorry i was so ambiguous!
But what you said, yes, i agree.
No church would be down with that attitude.

Baptism? I was going to mention "daily Mass" must be on the menu. No doubt we will wonder about the "saved to sin the more" attitude, but God can work miracles.

 

[sunlover1]

Baptism? I was going to mention "daily Mass" must be on the menu. No doubt we will wonder about the "saved to sin the more" attitude, but God can work miracles.

DAily mass??
Is that a requirement?
He doesn't attend at all.

 

[Standing Up]

DAily mass??
Is that a requirement?
He doesn't attend at all.

Some think so. Depends on the religion.

Saved by grace through faith. So, sin all the more? No.

 

[Rick Otto]

Well... SO confident of His destination
and said that while sure, life is good, look at how great it will be in Heaven.
And I'm thinking.. but but but but.. you don't seeany fruit! and in fact, i see some umm,, not
so sweet fruits.
So it's strange!
But God is able, huh?!
Not my circus not my monkeys?

We are all monkeys and he is playing "see no evil"
He needs to broaden his horizon here on earth.

 

[sunlover1]

We are all monkeys and he is playing "see no evil"
He needs to broaden his horizon here on earth.

You know, I was just thinking.
We are either in or out, right?
It's not like we're 'working our way... '
Reminds me of the Four Seasons
AND.. I am not perfect, and who is..
KWIM?
Kind of glad i had this convo with him...
Really gave me some things to consider.