grafted in...

[Source Scripture]

Rainie, ole chum, can u look me in the eye (screen) , and tell me that you don't think out last contention, was the historical precedent here? You remember.



10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

You are correct in your post. The Jews were under a burden, as the Ministry of Moses, was of death and condemnation. Important to note, that was speaking of the 10. So I would suggest that in your correspondence to the other poster, and her usage of Matt 5, that you ask her if she wishes to live under the consequences of the law, since she thinks we will be "called least" in that verse. There can be no selecting which laws or punishments there are.

 

[Source Scripture]

Yeppers I did and can I ask some questions?

• Who is being talked to here?
• What prophet are we going to put to death?
• What other gods are Christians serving, we do not keep the law?
• Who is brought out of the land of Egypt?
• What are the commandments that Christians are to keep? (hint I John 3:23).

You have raised excellent questions.

 

[Frogster]

Yes, I remember our former conversation that we reviewed over those scriptures.

Basically, you have explained that certain teachings of Paul and Peter directly contradict God's own words (aka Jesus) and that this is ok or explainable some how. (Correct me if I'm wrong)

Whereas, I have made my position clear that Peter and Paul CAN NOT and DID NOT contradict God (aka Jesus).

I will reword the question for you:
Can you reconcile your understanding that Paul and Peter taught law abolishment, as believers and followers of Jesus Christ. When Jesus Christ Himself, their leader, Savior, teacher and Lord etc. NEVER, EVER taught law abolishment nor lived opposed to the law in anyway, as He is WITHOUT SIN (violation of the Law)?

In Him-Rain

Here you go rainie, this is how we left off. Click ye ole link.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7443704-48/

See post 475 please.

 

[stranger]

Might I suggest a change in your posting style. One that is clear and concise. Usually posts like this are compensatory in nature, style over substance. Please forgive me, no offense intended, but I have been trying to follow the conversation. God bless you.

Not sure what you mean, but I will try to answer the OP then :

the new testament indicates that by faith we are grafted into Isra'el....
What does this mean to you in theoretical and practical terms.
Steve

The first thing to examine in any question is whether it is actually a valid question...

-1. - This question PRESUMES that 'we' [i.e. anyone ?] are grafted into Israel by 'faith' [but 'faith' is diverse indeed, what faith ?, faith in what?]

-2.- Also it says the NT , but presumably it in essence means the new covenant with 'Israel' ... [so we need to know what God thinks is 'Israel']

-3.- It talks about theoretical and practical terms, but there is no distinction as far as I can see ... God demands love before translation of man to spirit, and most folks find it impossible for now to stop being unloving to someone at least [if not many]... so the practical solution IS the 'theoretical' one of waiting on God to baptise folks so they face the truth of lve and stop sinning ...sin really is unloving , really is disobedience to Christ's command, really is following Satan's temptation, not Jesus' command ... so John tells us the bad news EXPLICITLY :-

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil

So I think we can perhaps see there is but one solution and it is future, 'theoretical', for most ... nothing most can do until God gives them all truth to be able to defeat Satan's wiles and stop sinning [John 16:13]

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

---- So let's begin by seeing WHO is grafted into Israel by the new covenant :-

Hebrews 8:8 Forfinding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

That IS the new covenant and it states without ambiguity that it is with those whose fathers broke the old covenant ... NOT some new 'spiritual Israel' but those whose fathers broke the old covenant who now are moved to be 'spiritual Israel' who obey the spirit because God has made them His people , that were rejected but are now accepted...

Read it carefully then, these are true descendants of Jacob , but they are most not 'Jews' [House of Judah], most are paganised as gentiles of the lost House of Israel ... both the nations into which Israel was divided are specified as receiving grace through their descendant children , no-one else [excepting that strangers can join Israel, and a few do so, but that is just a few]

Jesus said that he came ONLY for teh lost house of Israel, paganised idol-worshippers scattered long before the Jews , who never accepted Judaism and whom God says remained idol-worshippers after being scattered worldwide amongst the gentiles:-

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Deuteronomy 28:64 And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.

Thus we find Jesus sending ALL his [mostly Jewish originally] disciples to find the non-Jewish paganised House of Israel's descendants scattered worldwide amongst the gentiles, living as gentiles [as they have done for millennia]

These then are the gentiles added to Israel under the new covenant , it says so , that it is with the lost House of Israel ... and indeed scripture records that , unlike the Jews, the House of Israel , led by Ephraim, did cease to be a nation:-

Isaiah 7:8 For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin; and within threescore and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people.

That would normally be the end of a nation, but not so with the House of Israel because of God's promises and new covenant explicitly with them [and the Jews] - but NOT with ALL of them ... indeed they are not all Israel [of God] who are of Israel [Jacob] , but only the remnant descendant 'children' of Israel to whom teh promise is handed down through Jacob ... note ,as Paul highlights, not all of any generation in the Hebrew received the promise , nor was it always to the eldest son, but specified by God who would receive and who would not, according to His plan only.

So we see in Rev 7:3-8 Jesus lists the 144,000 saints of this earth by tribe of Israel , named by Jacob's sons [excluding Dan but including his adopted grandsons] ... there really cannot be any doubt here about their ancestry ... some are Jews, but most are paganised as gentiles , descendants of the lost house of Israel.

There really isn't anything to argue about here with Jesus being so explicit ... we know the 144,000 is literal because Enoch confirms there are only so many ten-thousands [tens of thousands is one word in Hebrew] of saints with the Messiah [Jude 1:14] and Matthew simply says FEW will find the way in this life, the MANY all destroyed [Matt 7:13-14]...

[Jesus confirms that the many are later saved , many of them at judgement day -Rev 7:9-10... so the few are only the firstfruits taken at Jesus' return as scripture says]

The simple truth then is that 144,000 is enough king-priests to set up the kingdom during the Millennium, God requires no more than this few... and indeed Jesus saves 144,000 first and then later if each saves 144,000 in turn, that just about covers everyone that ever lived... it makes sense of Jesus' parables about the kingdom being a power process... using the firstfruits to minister to billions resurrected at the second resurrection , just as they were ministered to in this life by Jesus and the saints ...

Equally it reveals the truth about religion of sinners led by sinners , for the new covenant states that saints have no need to teach saints [as God teaches them] , and whilst saints may teach sinners in order to find the next generation of siants, and indeed to eduacte gentiles about Jews and the lost House of Israel and the Messiah/Christ sent to re-unite ALL Israel eventually into a single nation of priests , there is no provision for sinners to teach sinners in scripture as far as I can see except in service to Satan :-

2Cor 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

That is not to say that God doesn't use divided religion of sinners, even allowing Satan to unite it WORLDWIDE [Rev 3:3-10] with only a few thousand or less saints left alive by then of the 144,000 ... it has its purpose in God's plan... the trapping of Satan into confessing his blasphemy 2Thess 2:4 which as a jew he can legally be killed for... which gets him out of teh way for the Millennium, whilst the kingdom is being prepared for the salvation later of the many who are destroyed in the wrath of God [Matt 7:13, Rev 7:9-10]

Thus we find all have a role for God in this life, but few are 'raptured' at Jesus' return because God requires the many to be held in death until resurrection to the kingdom for their later salvation

The 'answer' to the OP then is already given in scripture for anyone to read 'who has ears to hear' :-

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

'Believers' in this life are GIVEN faith in love [to stop unloving sinning] by spirit baptism by God Himself...

there is no 'leap of faith' required except by sinners in their tales of belief in diverse teachings of diverse sinners...

Faith in love is GIVEN by God to the few He chose from the beginning , accordingly to the promises He made to the Hebrews, notably to Jacob [whom God named 'Israel' , so we KNOW who Israel is , from God]

It is God then who decided at the beginning who would be saved first to be His royal priesthood of the new covenant [1Peter 2:9-10] a lost holy nation that ceased to be a people, the House of Israel ... by the remnant few , some Jews too [made saints by faith in Jesus] being made jealous by knowledge of the Messiah of Israel , most Jews just being made angry in unbelief :-

Deuteronomy 32:21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

There truly is only one foolish nation in scripture who are not a people , the House of Israel... and there is only one thing that could make a Jew jealous [or with many, angry in disbelief] , knowledge of who is truly their messiah ...

We KNOW that the billions of gentiles are destroyed in this life [Matt 7:13] , so why pretend otherwise ?

We KNOW that countless many of these are saved later according to Jesus [Rev 7:9-10] , so one has to see how the many are deceived into believing they are few [Matt 7:14] and sinners have to pretend somehow that Jesus' 144,000 saints of the tribes of Israel are really billions of gentiles...

It is something so outrageously preposterous that only Satan would try ... but God lest him have a lot of followers for now, thinking they worship God and Jesus... but truly sin is not loving and Jesus comands love of all who follow him , God GIVING the few who do the means to love, to stop sinning :-

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil

So perhaps the greatest truth of scripture for now affecting the many, is that Israel's remnant is only saved first so that they can minister to billions of gentiles once the kingdom is established in the new earth [this earth and heavens beings destroyed along with all sinners ,in the wrath of God , the only way to hols sinners back a thousand years whilst teh kingdom is readied is to kill them]

Thus we find, contrary to many teachings of sinners, that Jesus says all are resurrected from 'hell' [hades] and death and judged by their works in the righteous kingdom come in the new earth [not by their sin in this world] -Rev 20:13 , Ezek 18:20 - ]

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Contrary to popular myth now of sinners, you see that none are left in 'hell' and sinners truly can be righteous in the new earth ...

How can that be , since Satan too is resurrected to the new earth ? Quite simply we KNOW that all our children do not prophesy now , so sinners lie too about God baptising all flesh now ... in fact teh new earth si teh first time all flesh is alive to receive the GIFT of faith in love through spirit baptism to know all God's truth [John 16:13] :-

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy

So there you have all the answer to the OP, from scripture, plus why very few will believe even this clear exposition of what the saints and prophets say ... LOLOL ?

 

[bugkiller]

You are correct in your post. The Jews were under a burden, as the Ministry of Moses, was of death and condemnation. Important to note, that was speaking of the 10. So I would suggest that in your correspondence to the other poster, and her usage of Matt 5, that you ask her if she wishes to live under the consequences of the law, since she thinks we will be "called least" in that verse. There can be no selecting which laws or punishments there are.

Johnnie come lately that be the case. He doesn't need to ask. She is an MJ convert.

bugkiller

 

[Rainie]

Rainie, ole chum, can u look me in the eye (screen) , and tell me that you don't think out last contention, was the historical precedent here? You remember.

10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

Frogster,

Just to clarify... you believe God's Law (outlined in Torah) is the yoke Peter referenced in Acts 15?

Acts 15:1-11 (New King James Version)


Acts 15

1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question.
3 So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through Phoenicia and Samaria, describing the conversion of the Gentiles; and they caused great joy to all the brethren. 4 And when they had come to Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders; and they reported all things that God had done with them. 5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”
6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. 7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”


In Him-Rain

 

[Rainie]

Jesus was under the law until the cross and resurrection.

Do you think Jesus is still keeping the Law today?

For instance:
Do you think Jesus TODAY would still keep Biblical dietary commands, if He was walking on the Earth? Or do you think He's happily help Himself to a pork chop for instance?
Do you think He would still keep the 7th day Sabbath and celebrate the 7 Biblical Feasts of Leviticus 23... if He returned RIGHT NOW?

Or do you believe that after the cross and ressurection Jesus HIMSELF no longer keeps the Law?

In Him-Rain

 

[Rainie]

What covenant (testament) Is Jesus talking about in Mat 26:28?

The "NEW COVENANT" which is outlined in detail in Jeremiah, (A PROPHET) chapter 31... It's part of what Jesus says will not pass away thankfully.

Matthew 5

17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law OR THE PROPHETS. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

the Levitical priesthood and the temple are no more. This also proves that a jot or tittle from the law has passed.

Correction...

There are still Jews who claim that they are of the Levitical lineage they simply do not perform the Levitical tasks outlined in Torah because there is no current Temple, without which they can not fulfill thier duties.

When we read FUTURE PROPHECY in Ezekiel 44 etc. Scripture makes it clear that one day when Messiah returns the Levitical Preisthood will again have duties to perform, much the same as they did in Torah... RIGHT?

We also know that AFTER Messiah died, rose, and ascended there were still Levitical Priests performing their duties at the Temple... Paul even went to the Temple to take part in certain purity Laws etc. in Acts according to the LAW he hiself upheld and kept. RIGHT???

So, your "proof" that jots and tittles have passed from the Law and Prophets (using Hebrews 7:12) flies directly in the face of Jesus' own declaration (in Matt 5) and future UNFULFILLED prophecy (in Eze 44).

Can you reconcile these contradictions?
How can the Levitical Preisthood be no more, as you assert when FUTURE UNFULFILLED PROPHECY in Ezekiel mentions that the Levitical Priesthood will resume duties when Messiah returns to reign?

God's preisthood had been foretold, established and remembered by King David long before Hebrews 7:12, Bugkiller... Way back in the Psalms... and was also brought to light in Genesis.

Psalm 110:4 (New King James Version)


4 The LORD has sworn
And will not relent,
“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”



Genesis 14:18 (New King James Version)


18 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; He was the priest of God Most High.

In Him-Rain

 

[Rainie]

Yeppers I did and can I ask some questions?

• Who is being talked to here?
• What prophet are we going to put to death?
• What other gods are Christians serving, we do not keep the law?
• Who is brought out of the land of Egypt?
• What are the commandments that Christians are to keep? (hint I John 3:23).

1.) Israel and Judah the same people who will one day recieve the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31).
2.) Anyone who comes to teach the Israelites any doctrine that would lead them away from Yahweh and His commandments.
3.) Any true believer, no matter their affiliation, will follow Yahweh.
4.) The Israelites the same people who are specifically mentioned as being the reciepents of the New Covenant, along side Judah, in Jeremiah 31.
5.)
John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

In Him- Rain

 

[Rainie]

I am sorry but you confuse me here. I thought you claim we are obligated to obey the law (OC).

bugkiller

How am I confusing you?

The Law is written on the heart of all true believers via the Holy Spirit (aka Jesus) who lives in and through them.

Therefore, if the perfect Law keeper is dwelling inside of you, it would stand to reason that if you are "walking as He walked," by the SPIRIT and not according to the flesh, if you are being transformed into the image of Messiah by the renewing of your mind, seeking to submit to HIS WAYS instead of the WAYS OF THIS WORLD. That you would by nature be following the Law Messiah HIMSELF kept, keeps and has written upon your heart.

That's logical right?

How can one say.
I believe Jesus is Lord and Saviour, I believe He is the only begotten son of the Father and has redeemed and forgiven me... I long to serve Him, I desire to learn from Him and follow hard after Him, to live by the SPIRIT and submit to HIM... but then REFUSE to live their lives in a way that Jesus Himself lived?

That confuses me.

Deuteronomy 6:6
“And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart.

Jeremiah 31:33
But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Hebrews 10:16
“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”


Oh and this one too...

Deuteronomy 30:11-14 (New King James Version)


11 “For this commandment which I command you today is not too mysterious for you, nor is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend into heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it.

 

[Rainie]

#1 When Jesus spoke that to a Jewish audience, had he been to the cross yet?

#2 Also, where do the Gentiles fit in, according to that verse?

Since when is the Sermon on the Mount directed to a Jewish audience?

Jesus spoke to the "multitudes" that day, on a mountain.


Matthew 5 (New King James Version)

1 And seeing the multitudes, He went up on a mountain, and when He was seated His disciples came to Him.


If He'd wanted to speak to the Jews He could've just gone to a Synogogue.

This is interesting to me... Are you implying that what Jesus had to say before the cross during His ministry was not for the Gentiles but rather for the Jews alone?

In Him-Rain

 

[Rainie]

Excellent point. The law was based off the priesthood. God clearly demonstrated the passing of the old covenant, by letting the temple be destroyed. Idols die hard.

The Temple will be rebuilt when Messiah returns to reign.

According to FURTURE prophecy Sacrifices, Priesthood, Holy Days etc. will all resume during that great time, when Messiah walks among us.

Some folks are in for a big surprise.

Have you read Ezekiel, Zachariah etc.?

In Him-Rain

 

[Rainie]

You are correct in your post. The Jews were under a burden, as the Ministry of Moses, was of death and condemnation. Important to note, that was speaking of the 10. So I would suggest that in your correspondence to the other poster, and her usage of Matt 5, that you ask her if she wishes to live under the consequences of the law, since she thinks we will be "called least" in that verse. There can be no selecting which laws or punishments there are.

I never said who was least or greatest... for the record.
Not my place. AT ALL!

The consequence of sin (breaking the Law) is death.

Jesus took that consequence upon Himself. AKA, He died for me... He's the substitutional Lamb sacrifice so to speak.

After He removed the penalty of breaking His Law, I can now obey in freedom, grace and love.

Say Source Scripture:
If you got pulled over for speeding (breaking the law) and were issued a ticket, had to go to court and pay a fine. Then on your court day a nice man named Jesus came up and said... "Here let me pay that for you, go and be more careful how you drive."

Would you say "Gee thanks Jesus." Then leave and speed all the way home because you just got out of paying a debt. Whoooo-hooo, I'm free!

Or

Would you say "Gee thanks Jesus." Then leave and drive home humbly, following the speed limit (Law) with a grateful heart?

In Him-Rain

 

[Rainie]

Johnnie come lately that be the case. He doesn't need to ask. She is an MJ convert.

bugkiller

If the "she" here is refering to me. You're wrong and very presumptious. I'm in Messiah pure and simple. I don't care much for MJ doctrine, just like most groups they have some good and some not so good (IMHO).

In Him-Rain

 

[bugkiller]

Do you think Jesus is still keeping the Law today?

For instance:
Do you think Jesus TODAY would still keep Biblical dietary commands, if He was walking on the Earth? Or do you think He's happily help Himself to a pork chop for instance?
Do you think He would still keep the 7th day Sabbath and celebrate the 7 Biblical Feasts of Leviticus 23... if He returned RIGHT NOW?

Or do you believe that after the cross and ressurection Jesus HIMSELF no longer keeps the Law?

In Him-Rain

The resurrected Jesus acting under the NC that He testified is now in force - No to your first question and a possible yes to your second question.

bugkiller

 

[Source Scripture]

Since when is the Sermon on the Mount directed to a Jewish audience?

Jesus spoke to the "multitudes" that day, on a mountain.


Matthew 5 (New King James Version)

1 And seeing the multitudes, He went up on a mountain, and when He was seated His disciples came to Him.


If He'd wanted to speak to the Jews He could've just gone to a Synogogue.

This is interesting to me... Are you implying that what Jesus had to say before the cross during His ministry was not for the Gentiles but rather for the Jews alone?

In Him-Rain

Are you goung to try to actually say it was not an extremely predominate Jewish audience? Excuse,me, but you show a weakness in bible study. How could a multitude who followers of Jesus who numbered in the thousands, fit into a synagoge?

 

[Source Scripture]

The Temple will be rebuilt when Messiah returns to reign.

According to FURTURE prophecy Sacrifices, Priesthood, Holy Days etc. will all resume during that great time, when Messiah walks among us.

Some folks are in for a big surprise.

Have you read Ezekiel, Zachariah etc.?

In Him-Rain

Please provide proof, that the 70th week in Daniel was for thousands of years later. Also, why God, who allowed the first temple to be knocked down, seek to offer up animals again, grieving the spirit of grace. Please provide scripture. God bless you.

 

[bugkiller]

How am I confusing you?

The Law is written on the heart of all true believers via the Holy Spirit (aka Jesus) who lives in and through them.

What law is written on the heart of the believer? The Torah? How is this? Jer 31:31-34 says: Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new (here pronounced - khä·däsh' which coresponds to kainos pronounced kī-no's and can not be confused with neos like chadash [khä·däsh'] can with chadash pronounced khä·dash') covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32Not according to the covenant (this has nothing to do with place) that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put My law (not the ten commandments or the
Torah) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The word new is not renew as I have indicated in parenthesis. The next verse backs this view up with 32Not according to the covenant which is identified in Deut 4:13 as written on stone. Do you know of something else written in stone? Please give a scripture. This is further identified in 5:2-5 as being done with them that were present that day and no one else before or after (except blood line descendants and those who join up by circumscision Ex 12:48).

My law is not the old covenant or covenant established at Sinai. It is new, not renewed. See verses 42 and 32. The reference I have quoted makes that very plain and are not the words of Paul. There is no way to twist that.

I illustrated the working of the new covenant with John 8:1-11 before with you and you took off on a rabbit trail all by youself without considering what Jeremiah relayed that God said. I tie them together and you considered them totally unrelated. This perfectly illustrates Jer 31:34. Specifically I will remember their sin no more. The woman did not deny the charges after the accusers left and Jesus said go and sin no more. Why would Jesus say go and sin no more if whe was not guilty? Remember that Jesus is God Who knows all things and does not lie.

Therefore, if the perfect Law keeper is dwelling inside of you, it would stand to reason that if you are "walking as He walked," by the SPIRIT and not according to the flesh, if you are being transformed into the image of Messiah by the renewing of your mind, seeking to submit to HIS WAYS instead of the WAYS OF THIS WORLD. That you would by nature be following the Law Messiah HIMSELF kept, keeps and has written upon your heart.

Look I could get into it with on this walked as Jesus walked issue again and you would not appreaciate it at all with your 21st century mind set. It is pretty simple and you would refuse to comply and do as Jesus did. I promise. Just go back and review our previous discussion.

That's logical right?

How can one say.
I believe Jesus is Lord and Saviour, I believe He is the only begotten son of the Father and has redeemed and forgiven me... I long to serve Him, I desire to learn from Him and follow hard after Him, to live by the SPIRIT and submit to HIM... but then REFUSE to live their lives in a way that Jesus Himself lived?

As I simply explained above. We have a different covenant than before the cross. Jesus (God Himself) testified to this very fact noted in Mat 26:28. Jesus even changed the Passover celebration in a couple of ways. Just compare the Torah version with what Jesus did at what we call the last supper.

That confuses me.

Deuteronomy 6:6
“And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart.

Who is this speaking to?

Jeremiah 31:33
But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

You seem to refuse to believe Acts and speciffically chapter 15. Acts clearly shows that the Gentiles are included in the NC.

Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

I don'tknow why you use this verse. Paul is accused to have written it. None-the-less it is a direct quote from Jer 31. It merits the exact comments.

Hebrews 10:16
“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”[/quote]This is a very incomplete out of context prooftext quote use d to support your opinion.

Oh and this one too...

Deuteronomy 30:11-14 (New King James Version)


11 “For this commandment which I command you today is not too mysterious for you, nor is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend into heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it.

Again who is this addressed to? You have to go back to 29:2 to discover who this discourse is addressing.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Since when is the Sermon on the Mount directed to a Jewish audience?

Jesus spoke to the "multitudes" that day, on a mountain.

I am really wondering how you can even suggest that Jesus was speaking to a world wide audience at the Sermon on the Mount? I thought this took place in Israel. Considering the time it took to travel any where and it was early in His ministry. Jesus said He was sent to the lost sheep of Israel. Again why would he then be preaching to the world? I find no hint of this. The Jews were looking for a possible leader to deliver them from the Romans at this time. Jesus had a lot of ideas contrary to the day and He did supernatural things like heal people and turn water into wine for the party. Why wouldn't He attract a crowd any where He went? Now why would non Jews be interested in Jewish prophecy - 5:17, 18?

Matthew 5 (New King James Version)

1 And seeing the multitudes, He went up on a mountain, and when He was seated His disciples came to Him.


If He'd wanted to speak to the Jews He could've just gone to a Synogogue.

This is interesting to me... Are you implying that what Jesus had to say before the cross during His ministry was not for the Gentiles but rather for the Jews alone?

In Him-Rain

How big a crowd could you get into a synagogue? 5,000 plus women and children? I guess that mega synagogues were the rage. What do you think.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

If the "she" here is refering to me. You're wrong and very presumptious. I'm in Messiah pure and simple. I don't care much for MJ doctrine, just like most groups they have some good and some not so good (IMHO).

In Him-Rain

Oh I am sorry I did not know there was a Messianic organization outside of the MJs. I would like some education. What is the difference? I thought you used an MJ symbol prior to vacation. What do they believe? You stil have the same flavor to your posts. I do have this saying that if it waddles and quacks like a duck it probably is a duck. Doesn't matter what it calls itself. I still see and hear a duck.

And I apologize to Source Scripture.

bugkiller