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No, the Holy Spirit explains the scriptures hence His importance in your life. The catechisms and confessions are mens attempts to put believers back under the law hence their irrelevance.
If you hold your confessions and catechisms in higher regard than the Holy Spirit,
At the urgings of GrinningDwarf, I read Pink's book Chosen by God. I found it less than helpful and contradictory to the Bible. When questions about faith arise that I discuss with a brother, that discussion ALWAYS takes place with open Bibles.
The use of confessions and catechisms to explain scripture is sill at best and dangerous at worst. We find that scripture explains itself.
It has also been my experience (ex catholic) that confessions and catechisms are used to force scripture to fit within the pre-defined bounds of a particular religion (like Catholics) or point of view (like Calvinists).
The Reformers rediscovered the great doctrine of SolA Scriptura, not SolO Scriptura. It is not a "me and my bible philosophy," meaning that we reject the men of faith that God has worked through that has come before us.
Grace meets obedience in Christ.
I can't beat Beoga's answer.
I tried. The whole thing falls apart in the firs sentence of chapter 3. If you'll allow me to paraphrase, it says something like this, God has ordained everything that happens except for acts of evil. The two clauses contradict each other. If God has ordained everything then He had to ordain evil acts as well. If God did not ordain evil acts then He did not ordain everything. I am an engineer and I cannot accept that contradiction.Try reading the Westminster Confession of Faith with a closed Bible, it can't be done!
And well you should. The Bible is the final authority on all matters of faith. The Reformers rediscovered the great doctrine of SolA Scriptura, not SolO Scriptura. It is not a "me and my bible philosophy," meaning that we reject the men of faith that God has worked through that has come before us.
Because the Word is preached out of the Bible. When the Word would seem to contradict itself we turn to the rest of the Bible to clarify the contradiction. We have no need for a creed or catechism to help us understand what the Bible says. That is why God gave us the Bible - to teach us His ways.Beoga said:If you reject any sort of creed and confession, do believe the word should be preached each Sunday? If so, why? Wouldn't this be silly at best and dangerous at worst? I mean the Scriptures explain themselves, there is no need for a Pastor to explain to his congregation what God has revealed.
The reason(s) you reject creeds and confessions could easily be turned around against preaching, bible studies, discussions between brothers, etc.
I would never accept a creed or catechism or confession as binding in any way. Martin Luther looked at he creeds, catechisms and confesions of the Catholic church and started the Protestant movement. His main idea was to return the church he loved back to the teachings of Bible. Man made interpretations of the Bible may have good aspects. As soon as those interpretations take on the weight of dogma then Satan has won another church away from God.Beoga said:The remedy to the abuse of a good thing (which creeds are) is not the rejection of that good thing.
Creeds and confessions are always subjected to Scripture, the Scriptures are the highest authority. Creeds and confessions are only binding where the accurately reflect what is taught in Scripture.
We will disagree strongly over this point. Jesus came to redeem us from the law and He did.Absolutely wrong.
You don't hold them in higher regard than scripture. Others may. My point was to examine what you believe and why you believe it. If what you believe does not fall in line with scripture, as interpreted by the Holy Spirit in your life, then it is time to examine your walk with Christ.GrinningDwarf said:We don't hold them in higher regard than the Holy Spirit, but we understand that the Holy Spirit, believe it or not, actually spoke wisdom through them. You see...the Spirit was not silent from the time of the apostles until Charles Finney.
I'm sorry, but trying to explain a difference between first and second causes is meaningless in light of what the confession says. Note carefully what the paragraph says:That's not what it says, box. You must have difficulty distinguishing between first and second causes. Read it again for yourself and don't stop with #1: http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/ch_III.html
There is a world of difference in obedience out of love and slavish obedience out of fear. Those who would make obedience a requirement, as do those you speak of, are yet under bondage. It is legalism in its essence. They fear that love isn't enough motivation to walk worthy of your calling. The fact is that love is a much better motivation than law. The commonly held view of obedience is that God blesses us when we obey Him and punishes us when we don't. Hence the often used comments that if someone seems to be blessed by God they must be living right. Or when they experience trouble in the providence of God that they must not be living right. It denies the Scriptural teaching that all the blessings of God belong to every believer because of Christ and are in Him alone. Eph. 1:3 Also it more often than not leads to self-righteousness, something we are all prone to by nature. Those who look to themselves in any way for any thing from God: blessings, assurance, peace, acceptance, a favorable look, or rewards have not yet learned what it means to trust Christ. Looking to yourself for anything, in obedience or faith, is to miss the message that Christ is all in all to the believer. It is a works based faith that robs any who believe it of peace and comfort in Christ. It is what the Lord called the leaven of the Pharisees. All true believers obey Him. Not out of slavish fear or in order to gain from it but out of a sincere love for Him and deep desire to please and honor Him. We fail and fall but He always lifts us up and pours His wondrous grace into our hearts and points us once again to Himself and His work on our behalf. He makes us to daily look to Him alone and not to ourselves. We are complete in Him, lacking nothing. Col. 2:10. He has given us all things that pertain to life and godliness. 2Pet.1:3-10. Faith in Christ is resting in Him alone finding all that is needed for God to be pleased with us in Him and by Him. Matt. 11:27-30 In Him is peace that passes understanding and a full and complete salvation that we add nothing to. Whatever we do to add to what Christ has already done is to miss Christ. Gal. 2:16-21, 6:3.This is still a stickler for me. I am told by those more in the Arminian camp is that God is pleased only with those who work righteousness, that the entire New Testament is the Law of Christ, that we are to obey it, that is our purpose, I guess.
I clealy see how unscriptural this is, yet even in discussing grace with these people, they bring up the numerous scriptures warning us to watch out, that if God's wrath was poured out on such and such for sinning, how much more it will be poured out on us, how we are to watch out concerning falling away, etc.
Where do grace and obedience meet? Where is the righful place of obedience in our theologic thinking?
I'm sorry, but trying to explain a difference between first and second causes is meaningless in light of what the confession says.
What does whatsoever mean?
Are you asserting that second causes are not unchangeably ordained by God?
If second causes are outside God's ordination, what does that say about the meaning of whatsoever?
Thank you mlqurgw for this great, great post.There is a world of difference in obedience out of love and slavish obedience out of fear. Those who would make obedience a requirement, as do those you speak of, are yet under bondage. It is legalism in its essence. They fear that love isn't enough motivation to walk worthy of your calling. The fact is that love is a much better motivation than law. The commonly held view of obedience is that God blesses us when we obey Him and punishes us when we don't. Hence the often used comments that if someone seems to be blessed by God they must be living right. Or when they experience trouble in the providence of God that they must not be living right. It denies the Scriptural teaching that all the blessings of God belong to every believer because of Christ and are in Him alone. Eph. 1:3 Also it more often than not leads to self-righteousness, something we are all prone to by nature. Those who look to themselves in any way for any thing from God: blessings, assurance, peace, acceptance, a favorable look, or rewards have not yet learned what it means to trust Christ. Looking to yourself for anything, in obedience or faith, is to miss the message that Christ is all in all to the believer. It is a works based faith that robs any who believe it of peace and comfort in Christ. It is what the Lord called the leaven of the Pharisees. All true believers obey Him. Not out of slavish fear or in order to gain from it but out of a sincere love for Him and deep desire to please and honor Him. We fail and fall but He always lifts us up and pours His wondrous grace into our hearts and points us once again to Himself and His work on our behalf. He makes us to daily look to Him alone and not to ourselves. We are complete in Him, lacking nothing. Col. 2:10. He has given us all things that pertain to life and godliness. 2Pet.1:3-10. Faith in Christ is resting in Him alone finding all that is needed for God to be pleased with us in Him and by Him. Matt. 11:27-30 In Him is peace that passes understanding and a full and complete salvation that we add nothing to. Whatever we do to add to what Christ has already done is to miss Christ. Gal. 2:16-21, 6:3.
All those passages which are used to drive people to obedience as unwilling slaves are simply explained by Peters words in 2Pet. 1:10. God working in us and through us are loving tokens of our calling and election. We do not look to them for assurance but as simply the fruit of Christ in us the hope of glory. It is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure. Every elect sinner who trusts Christ alone manifests the fruit of the Spirit. Gal. 5:21-23. These things aren't proofs of our obedience but the manifest presence of the Spirit. By them we are always pointed to Him who loved us and gave Himself for us. The warnings aren't given us as a whip to drive us but as a loving and gracious lesson to point us to our Redeemer.
You said whatsoever means all things. All things means all, as in each and every, things. Therefore, there can be no meaningful difference between first and second causes because whether is is a first cause or second cause, both causes fall under the heading of all things.Um. no.
Your question is moot because of the way "whatsoever" is defined!
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