I object to my precious thread being derailled and demand that we get back to talking about how hot TryinToBe is.
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Grace etc
- Thread starter FLANDIDLYANDERS
- Start date
Anyway, on the subject of humanity and grace an seeing Jesus in those around us, I would like to post a poem I just wrote...
Guiding Stars
Vertical piles of people
Like poured plastic moulded into
Desirable costumes
Fade into the landscape around me. But for
their diamond light-giving eyes;
Each and every one a priceless but flawed gem,
Fascinating fascets
Shining emotions like
Diary excerpts or TV documentaries.
Some sparkle with freedom, some burn with zeal,
Some glare with confidence, others shyly glow.
Even the dulled stones
Blaze unpredictably when light catches on
Surface chips or deep fractures.
But I am no dealer in fine and rare jewels,
Nor am I a miner desperate for treasure,
I am not much of a shopper, trying on rings.
I just notice these things
Delighting in diamonds,
Familiar or unfamiliar.
Delighting in humanity that is fixed like stars
In daytime or nighttime faces
For each of us to be guided by.
Accept and dwell. Peace out.
Guiding Stars
Vertical piles of people
Like poured plastic moulded into
Desirable costumes
Fade into the landscape around me. But for
their diamond light-giving eyes;
Each and every one a priceless but flawed gem,
Fascinating fascets
Shining emotions like
Diary excerpts or TV documentaries.
Some sparkle with freedom, some burn with zeal,
Some glare with confidence, others shyly glow.
Even the dulled stones
Blaze unpredictably when light catches on
Surface chips or deep fractures.
But I am no dealer in fine and rare jewels,
Nor am I a miner desperate for treasure,
I am not much of a shopper, trying on rings.
I just notice these things
Delighting in diamonds,
Familiar or unfamiliar.
Delighting in humanity that is fixed like stars
In daytime or nighttime faces
For each of us to be guided by.
Accept and dwell. Peace out.
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I admit today was a difficult day for me - I was having a hard time showing grace, and ultimately failed.
I worked with someone today, that I normaly don't work with. They equaled the religious level of a pharisee and had a staunch amount of legalism - It was hard to be tolerant. Now I feel my tolerance was no better, but on the opposite side of the spectrum.
I worked with someone today, that I normaly don't work with. They equaled the religious level of a pharisee and had a staunch amount of legalism - It was hard to be tolerant. Now I feel my tolerance was no better, but on the opposite side of the spectrum.
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There is a difference for me between Tollerance and Grace.
I cannot tollerate people. I'm too sensitive and proud. I despise to easily. But when I stop and consider not their plastic appearance, I look to their eyes and see human like me, human like Jesus.
Grace is not so difficult when we understand and empathise others, despite how intollerable they may be. As intollerable as myself maybe - if that is possible!
I am not a good man, but I am honourable. I can but only honour others, if I fail to see anything worth honouring in another, then I should not expect to be honoured.
Such a thing is, maybe, impossible but try we must, for the sake of our own honour and that of our Master.
(apologies for the Samurai moment)
I cannot tollerate people. I'm too sensitive and proud. I despise to easily. But when I stop and consider not their plastic appearance, I look to their eyes and see human like me, human like Jesus.
Grace is not so difficult when we understand and empathise others, despite how intollerable they may be. As intollerable as myself maybe - if that is possible!
I am not a good man, but I am honourable. I can but only honour others, if I fail to see anything worth honouring in another, then I should not expect to be honoured.
Such a thing is, maybe, impossible but try we must, for the sake of our own honour and that of our Master.
(apologies for the Samurai moment)
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Ok people, another poem, to show my journey thus far... accept and dwell...
The Worst Crime
_________________
I will tell you about how it is,
About the most foul of murders.
And it is not what you think,
It is not that at all.
The worst crime imaginable
Is haste and certainty.
Haste is not about speed, and certainty is not about being sure.
No, no, no. Not at all!
The worst crime is not the adultery,
Nor is it being excluded or abandoned with 4 children.
No. The worst crime happened years ago,
When 2 people were certain and hastily said so.
I fell in love with my friend
And she thought friendship was love.
Unequally matched,
We became certain that an end to loneliness, loss and hurt
Was in one another as lovers.
At first this was enough.
I had plenty to give and she had plenty to learn,
I needed to change and she needed to return.
So we continued, freindship to familiarity to dependency,
I poured my love, and was recieved.
But as the years and family grew,
We knew we were not sure at all.
And still we tried,
I to give, her to appreciate,
I to recieve, her to reciprocate.
But the balance was tipped,
I gave and gave so much,
It became clear,
She could not give as she wanted,
As she needed, as any lover should;
Naturally and happily and completely.
So I continued, burning for her,
Desperate to feel what just was not there.
I was burning out.
My mind was dieing, my love even for my children was fading,
And she was further now, wrapped in guilt and impotency, so
She did what only she could,
She did the only thing she could,
She gave as she wanted,
As she needed, as any lover should;
Naturally and happily and completely
To another.
She destroyed me and so many around us,
But this was not the worst crime imaginable.
That happened years ago
When we were married.
But even the crime of an unequal partnership,
Where I was never loved,
Birthed 4 beautiful people
Who love me as I have always needed,
As she never could.
Do I regret marrying a friend? No.
Our marrage was not to be a life-sentence;
The worst crime imaginable
Would have been to
Hastily remain certain
Of something that would have killed us all,
Despite how it looked to everyone else.
So, I will tell you about how it is,
About the most foul of murders.
And it is not what you think,
It is not that at all.
The worst crime imaginable
Hasn't happened,
Thanks to her.
Thanks to adultery - being excluded and abandoned,
I have uncovered who I was hiding,
For the sake of a marrage remaining.
And I am free and freer and freeing
And the children are growing
Again.
So, honestly, I hope that she
Will find her freedom truly,
Wherever she needs it to be.
In the loss and uncertainty,
In the stillness and resolve
Of a marrage ended.
The Worst Crime
_________________
I will tell you about how it is,
About the most foul of murders.
And it is not what you think,
It is not that at all.
The worst crime imaginable
Is haste and certainty.
Haste is not about speed, and certainty is not about being sure.
No, no, no. Not at all!
The worst crime is not the adultery,
Nor is it being excluded or abandoned with 4 children.
No. The worst crime happened years ago,
When 2 people were certain and hastily said so.
I fell in love with my friend
And she thought friendship was love.
Unequally matched,
We became certain that an end to loneliness, loss and hurt
Was in one another as lovers.
At first this was enough.
I had plenty to give and she had plenty to learn,
I needed to change and she needed to return.
So we continued, freindship to familiarity to dependency,
I poured my love, and was recieved.
But as the years and family grew,
We knew we were not sure at all.
And still we tried,
I to give, her to appreciate,
I to recieve, her to reciprocate.
But the balance was tipped,
I gave and gave so much,
It became clear,
She could not give as she wanted,
As she needed, as any lover should;
Naturally and happily and completely.
So I continued, burning for her,
Desperate to feel what just was not there.
I was burning out.
My mind was dieing, my love even for my children was fading,
And she was further now, wrapped in guilt and impotency, so
She did what only she could,
She did the only thing she could,
She gave as she wanted,
As she needed, as any lover should;
Naturally and happily and completely
To another.
She destroyed me and so many around us,
But this was not the worst crime imaginable.
That happened years ago
When we were married.
But even the crime of an unequal partnership,
Where I was never loved,
Birthed 4 beautiful people
Who love me as I have always needed,
As she never could.
Do I regret marrying a friend? No.
Our marrage was not to be a life-sentence;
The worst crime imaginable
Would have been to
Hastily remain certain
Of something that would have killed us all,
Despite how it looked to everyone else.
So, I will tell you about how it is,
About the most foul of murders.
And it is not what you think,
It is not that at all.
The worst crime imaginable
Hasn't happened,
Thanks to her.
Thanks to adultery - being excluded and abandoned,
I have uncovered who I was hiding,
For the sake of a marrage remaining.
And I am free and freer and freeing
And the children are growing
Again.
So, honestly, I hope that she
Will find her freedom truly,
Wherever she needs it to be.
In the loss and uncertainty,
In the stillness and resolve
Of a marrage ended.
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How come it is easier to show grace to an unbeliever?
How can I show grace towards the fellow believer that I feel hurt me? When all I want to do is run screaming from the building!
I don't like this feeling that I don't belong anywhere....
How can I show grace towards the fellow believer that I feel hurt me? When all I want to do is run screaming from the building!
I don't like this feeling that I don't belong anywhere....
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How come it is easier to show grace to an unbeliever?
How can I show grace towards the fellow believer that I feel hurt me? When all I want to do is run screaming from the building!
I don't like this feeling that I don't belong anywhere....
Well you gotta be honest with yerself. Grace cannot be generated, eh?
Grace is sometimes that which makes us run screaming from the building, because Grace is about our hearts and our love for others. As for the Christians, I have been known to be less than gracious in some circumstances, but then when the arguement or conversation arises from my faux pas, Grace will cover a multitude of sins. Part of Grace is that some things just have to be expressed, rightly or wrongly, in order for the grace to extend from the other person.
If you feel that strongly, for your own sanity, express something to them. If this is inappropriate, sobeit, but clearly there's something you need to do here. even if it is just to express that you cant be around such and such a person because of such and such a reason, IMO.
Not everyone can lie with their corpse facing the Enemy, but it works for me
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non-religious
Veteran
Just to throw some scripture into the mix, I love this verse:
Hebrews 4:16 - Let us therefore come bodly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in the time of need.
God is never failing, He is ever-faithful and will extend His grace to those of us who do come to Him. Regardless of where you are, who you are or what you are.
Boy.... We sure serve an awesome God
Hebrews 4:16 - Let us therefore come bodly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in the time of need.
God is never failing, He is ever-faithful and will extend His grace to those of us who do come to Him. Regardless of where you are, who you are or what you are.
Boy.... We sure serve an awesome God
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I was talking with Trying last night, hearing her tussle with her daughter. Very annoying when I have successfully got my 4 little nippers off to the land of Nod, to have to hear her going thru it all! Nah, I'm joking, Trying is an inspiring mother, carrying a deep pain but still able to love unconditionally and discipline thoughtfully.
So, pain. As I listened to Trying's softly spilled stories from her life, I began to think - all owls think a lot! - I began to express how Love so often mushes up reality, giving it a rosey glow - but I wonder sometimes is this rosiness the pulped-up flesh, bones and blood of Realities internal organs?
Ah, sorry, I'm going into poetry again... so I say it straight; Love, romantic-type love, is more often than not a little blinding. This is natural, in order for us to pursue a person we must begin by having them emblazoned on our synapses. So this is not always bad. But possibly best experienced AFTER friendship? Anyway, I digress - as usual - love? Flanders, you were talking about pain. Tru dat. So, PAIN. It is my contention that while an ultimate effect of LOVE is to cushion us from reality in order to find solace in another, a fantasy, some bitty escape - in a good way; maybe it is the intention of PAIN to bring us reality. As Ice Cube once conjectured, it is pian that makes us feel alive, to know that we bleed we then know that we live. Just as a near-death experience can help us appreciate life, so can pain. Sometimes, however, our pain is too close to death; so that instead of walking in constant awarenes of reality, we shy from it because of the pain. And this is where things become unhinged.
It is my suspicion, that if we Love to the point of utter denial of reality, to the absolute pursuit of fantasy, then maybe we too are shying from Pain. IMO one cannot have Joy without the Pain, and vice versa.
So why do I propose that we embrace Pain? Because pain is about reality, facing the truth, if we handle it correctly. As a wise man once said, "suffering shows us who we really are". Now, in all honestly, I am a legend. And I can only say this with any sense of propriety because of the suffering I have and still do experience. While this is a great comfort to me to know how amazing I am - after a lifetime of glimpses and denials - I also realise how normal this is, and that my expectations of myself were just not high enough. So, here's a thought; how about we work on raising one anothers expectations. Because expectations grounded in the Joy and Pain of a reality shared among community is how we realise who we are and will be, by God.
I'm offering MSN time to pursue this, if anyone else wants to add my addy and share this stuff. Otherwise, CF and MySpace are okay for now.
Pass it on.
So, pain. As I listened to Trying's softly spilled stories from her life, I began to think - all owls think a lot! - I began to express how Love so often mushes up reality, giving it a rosey glow - but I wonder sometimes is this rosiness the pulped-up flesh, bones and blood of Realities internal organs?
Ah, sorry, I'm going into poetry again... so I say it straight; Love, romantic-type love, is more often than not a little blinding. This is natural, in order for us to pursue a person we must begin by having them emblazoned on our synapses. So this is not always bad. But possibly best experienced AFTER friendship? Anyway, I digress - as usual - love? Flanders, you were talking about pain. Tru dat. So, PAIN. It is my contention that while an ultimate effect of LOVE is to cushion us from reality in order to find solace in another, a fantasy, some bitty escape - in a good way; maybe it is the intention of PAIN to bring us reality. As Ice Cube once conjectured, it is pian that makes us feel alive, to know that we bleed we then know that we live. Just as a near-death experience can help us appreciate life, so can pain. Sometimes, however, our pain is too close to death; so that instead of walking in constant awarenes of reality, we shy from it because of the pain. And this is where things become unhinged.
It is my suspicion, that if we Love to the point of utter denial of reality, to the absolute pursuit of fantasy, then maybe we too are shying from Pain. IMO one cannot have Joy without the Pain, and vice versa.
So why do I propose that we embrace Pain? Because pain is about reality, facing the truth, if we handle it correctly. As a wise man once said, "suffering shows us who we really are". Now, in all honestly, I am a legend. And I can only say this with any sense of propriety because of the suffering I have and still do experience. While this is a great comfort to me to know how amazing I am - after a lifetime of glimpses and denials - I also realise how normal this is, and that my expectations of myself were just not high enough. So, here's a thought; how about we work on raising one anothers expectations. Because expectations grounded in the Joy and Pain of a reality shared among community is how we realise who we are and will be, by God.
I'm offering MSN time to pursue this, if anyone else wants to add my addy and share this stuff. Otherwise, CF and MySpace are okay for now.
Pass it on.
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T
tryingtobeagain
Guest
Ok Flan, interesting ideas,
I embrace my pain (and for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, I have a severe muscle disorder, but you can chalk it up to general pain - physical and emotional) because I feel that it brings me closer to God, makes me humble, and makes me see things in a new light. When most people get up in the morning they usually don't think about the ability God gave them to walk. I appreciate it on the deepest level because I know the pain of the days I can't walk. This is why they say hindsight is 20/20. It's easy for me to see the things that didn't add up in my marriage now, but at the time I was going through them I did have a blurring from the love I felt for my husband that did allow me to make excuses for him. So I experienced both things you are talking about. I don't think it's possible to really experience one without the other.
So, I know that I am hard on myself with my own expectations for me. Are you striving to make more realistic expectations for each other or to strive to be better? I know my expectations for others are also too low because of fear of being disappointed and not wanting to judge others. So how do you propose we as an online community raise each other's expectations?
I embrace my pain (and for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, I have a severe muscle disorder, but you can chalk it up to general pain - physical and emotional) because I feel that it brings me closer to God, makes me humble, and makes me see things in a new light. When most people get up in the morning they usually don't think about the ability God gave them to walk. I appreciate it on the deepest level because I know the pain of the days I can't walk. This is why they say hindsight is 20/20. It's easy for me to see the things that didn't add up in my marriage now, but at the time I was going through them I did have a blurring from the love I felt for my husband that did allow me to make excuses for him. So I experienced both things you are talking about. I don't think it's possible to really experience one without the other.
So, I know that I am hard on myself with my own expectations for me. Are you striving to make more realistic expectations for each other or to strive to be better? I know my expectations for others are also too low because of fear of being disappointed and not wanting to judge others. So how do you propose we as an online community raise each other's expectations?
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Well, Joi, how are we doing it together, can we more broadly apply it - in a more appropriate way for others (I wouldnt want to share everything we share with everyone cos it's, erm, not quite the same thing!)?
Contact and openness for a start. But it really depends on if this is something that can or should be done virtually. I'm not talking about replacing church, I'm talking about holistically applying church even to forums and online relationships. The opposite of online church, infact.
Trust.
Theres the nub issue, methinx.
But I was thinking having each other on MSN or similar may suffice, cos I find it more accessible than forums for small quick contacts. But Net addiction needs to be avoided too. Anyone any ideas, or am I peeing in the virtual wind here?
Contact and openness for a start. But it really depends on if this is something that can or should be done virtually. I'm not talking about replacing church, I'm talking about holistically applying church even to forums and online relationships. The opposite of online church, infact.
Trust.
Theres the nub issue, methinx.
But I was thinking having each other on MSN or similar may suffice, cos I find it more accessible than forums for small quick contacts. But Net addiction needs to be avoided too. Anyone any ideas, or am I peeing in the virtual wind here?
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Either way of communication would be interesting.
This is a most interesting topic...
***going away now to stew over my thoughts on this while chasing kids***
This is a most interesting topic...
***going away now to stew over my thoughts on this while chasing kids***
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I accepted yer MSN addy, Ev. Way to put yer money where yer mouth is! When you come online I'll send you Joi's - if yo haven't got her already, of course
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OK. Samurai essay underway. I've stuck it on me Myspace blog -- a lot of it is rehashed from stuff posted in this very thread! I will update it as I write it. Enjoy, those of you whom want to read...
Direct access here:
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...&MyToken=cf048bd2-da56-4078-b050-555261c0b55e
Direct access here:
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...&MyToken=cf048bd2-da56-4078-b050-555261c0b55e
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I need my own computer before I can go msning. Some problems are just not worth the fight. Looking forward to reading the new stuff. Always love new stuff.
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