Goodbye.....

[ChoirDir]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that ROCA came out of ROCOR. There was a group within ROCOR who were opposed to reestablishing communion with the Russian Church. I have also heard the ROCOR is in negotiations to fully restore communion with the other Orthodox Patriarchates.

 

[Matrona]

Jerusalem Patriarchate is definately fully canonical. They're the poor souls enduring untold amounts of persecution and grief to make sure there's an Orthodox presence in the Holy Land (I know there are other Orthodox groups there too, but Jerusalem Patriarchate's faithful is primarily Arab.)

There's a Jerusalem Patriarchate monastery that my parish has a great relationship with.

That's what I thought. However, I had read something that set off warning alarms in my head about the JP, so I wanted to be on the safe side. (It was something about the JP uncanonically taking in the schismatics who revolted against the Antiochian archdiocese at Ben Lomond.)

 

[Matrona]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that ROCA came out of ROCOR. There was a group within ROCOR who were opposed to reestablishing communion with the Russian Church. I have also heard the ROCOR is in negotiations to fully restore communion with the other Orthodox Patriarchates.

Yeah, there are so many schismatic groups I can't even keep up with them anymore. All I know is to just never trust what any of them say about themselves. So ROCA isn't in communion with any of them?

/me is tired of feeling like a heretic...

 

[Reader Nilus]

What the JP is doing in America is beyond me, why are they here? All I see is that the JP is doing their part to add to the jurisdictional confusion and sin in America.
Jeff the Finn

 

[Epiphany]

Look, I'm sorry if defending my patriarchate has somehow offended you. But the Patriarchate of Antioch is fully canonical and is in communion with every other existing canonical patriarchate within the Orthodox Church.

I've seen other patriarchs do things I find worthy of a headscratch or two, but as long as the other canonical Orthodox churches don't find it necessary to break communion, neither do I. There's a reason that they're the hierarchs and I'm the laywoman.

(Lay...girl? Lay...young lady? Laylady? I better stop before I get that Bob Dylan song stuck in my head. )

Anyway, the point is, God did not ordain me to fill such a position in my church, and it's certainly not my place to try.

When I was an inquirer... as sure as I am of this life, when I was an inquirer, I felt as though I was being guided. I'm not sure if it was my guardian angel or perhaps the hand of the Holy Spirit Himself, but I was not called to become part of the Greek Orthodox church, or the ROCOR church, or the OCA church, but the tiny Antiochian mission. And I, with my weak and pitiful excuse for faith, was sent not a great vision from above, some kind of amazing theophany that would shake the very earth on which I stood. It simply happened that a nice boy came into my life, and he came from the Antiochian church. He didn't trample underfoot my former delusion with strokes of verbal violence--his quiet personal wisdom and faith spoke to my very heart. Now he is one of my very dear friends and every day I thank our Lord for sending him into my life. I wouldn't be here without him. Who knows if I would even still be a Christian, if it had not been for him?

To Life Immortal

YAY Matrona. I like your post. PS: I like that song, Layla. lol!

Peace and Long Life
~*~ Epiphany ~*~

 

[Epiphany]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that ROCA came out of ROCOR. There was a group within ROCOR who were opposed to reestablishing communion with the Russian Church. I have also heard the ROCOR is in negotiations to fully restore communion with the other Orthodox Patriarchates.

To Life Immortal

What is ROCOR and ROCA?

Peace and Long Life
~*~ Epiphany ~*~

 

[ChoirDir]

ROCOR = Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia
ROCA = Russian Orthodox Church Abroad

PS There are no dumb questions!

 

[Matrona]

To Life Immortal

YAY Matrona. I like your post. PS: I like that song, Layla. lol!

Peace and Long Life
~*~ Epiphany ~*~

Thank you Epiphany!

 

[nicodemus]

What the JP is doing in America is beyond me, why are they here? All I see is that the JP is doing their part to add to the jurisdictional confusion and sin in America.
Jeff the Finn

Why are any of them here for that matter? The original Russian church oversaw the affairs of the Arab churches and all (or at least most) Orthodox in America in the "early years." I know that is incredibly simplistic, but it is (more or less) accurate. The situation has gotten worse, not better.

St. Raphael was ordained by St. Tikhon for instance. We had services going in Russian, Arabic, various native Alaskan languages, etc. all under one head, and now we're in the "multi-jurisdictional" situation. Eventually, every language group wanted to be ruled by their mother church and we're in our present circumstance. If some parish or monastery seeks the refuge of the Jerusalem Patriarchate I can't fault them. Until all the "mother churches" overseas agree to "get out" of the USA (in a purely jurisdictional/canonical sense) then we will see parishes/monastaries switching jurisdictions, etc.

 

[ChoirDir]

Nicodemus:
This is the problem facing American Orthodoxy today. I believe the Antiochians being granted autocephaly just complicates it moreso. We really need to unite as American Orthodox. I can see how early on this was a problem (during the heydays of immigration, Ellis Island) the Greeks wanted their own community as did the Serbs, Russians, etc etc etc.

 

[Suzannah]

Yeah, there are so many schismatic groups I can't even keep up with them anymore. All I know is to just never trust what any of them say about themselves. So ROCA isn't in communion with any of them?

* Matrona is tired of feeling like a heretic...

I can't even keep up with my Mormon relatives. And they call me a heretic...



Love ,
Suzannah

 

[nicodemus]

Nicodemus:
This is the problem facing American Orthodoxy today. I believe the Antiochians being granted autocephaly just complicates it moreso. We really need to unite as American Orthodox. I can see how early on this was a problem (during the heydays of immigration, Ellis Island) the Greeks wanted their own community as did the Serbs, Russians, etc etc etc.

Yes, it is a problem that upsets me greatly...and I hope it is resolved as quickly as possible. I was out of town and visiting an Antiochian church (because the town I was in didn't have a church of my jurisdiction) when Metropolitan Philip's letter circulated about the autocephaly being granted. While I was happy that the Antiochians in America would be able to control their own affairs, I was simultaneously saddened that another group would have "ultimate" control here.

 

[ChoirDir]

I pray that SCOBA will truly find a way to unite us all as American Orthodox

 

[nicodemus]

I pray that SCOBA will truly find a way to unite us all as American Orthodox

I hope so too, but it is going to be a long, slow process and everybody is going to have to make major sacrifices and swallow their "ethnic pride." At least that's the way I see it.

 

[St. Tikon]

Dear Father Deacon (Tikon)

I'm so glad you plan on staying. You're the only clergy we have now.

God grant you many years!

In Christ our God,
Elizabeth

Though I appreciate the respect, it isn't nescessary to treat me as clergy. I am NEW clergy, and just want to be plain old Tikon on this forum.

I had planned on kinda keeping it quiet

 

[St. Tikon]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that ROCA came out of ROCOR. There was a group within ROCOR who were opposed to reestablishing communion with the Russian Church. I have also heard the ROCOR is in negotiations to fully restore communion with the other Orthodox Patriarchates.

As far as I know, we are ONE group. The difficulty is re-establishing ties after so many years, jurisdictions, etc. Also a lot of BAD water under the bridge. Communism really messed up the Russian Church. I imagine within the next 5 years reunion will happen. If you want to see how they do it in the old country, pay one of our parishes a visit. No pews though...we STAND, and STAND

 

[ChoirDir]

Tikon, perhaps you can help us regarding ROCOR and ROCA. Tell us a little what you know regarding the differences in viewpoints regarding reestablishing communion.

 

[Matrona]

It is important to know when one among us enters or has entered the diaconate or the priesthood, etc., so that we can use the appropriate respectful terms.

Although I will say I don't care if you're the Ecumenical Patriarch--if you insult my patriarch, my metropolitan, or my archdiocese without due cause, I will most certainly not be afraid to call you on it.

 

[St. Tikon]

Yes, it is a problem that upsets me greatly...and I hope it is resolved as quickly as possible. I was out of town and visiting an Antiochian church (because the town I was in didn't have a church of my jurisdiction) when Metropolitan Philip's letter circulated about the autocephaly being granted. While I was happy that the Antiochians in America would be able to control their own affairs, I was simultaneously saddened that another group would have "ultimate" control here.

I heard about the autocephaly, which is fine with me.
The biggest problem, and Greeks don't jump me on this is that our Ecumenical Patriarch is more interested in becoming the first Orthodox Pope than working on the problems of uniting the different churches of our Belief.
He was jesuit educated, and getting closer to Rome every day.

 

[nicodemus]

Though I appreciate the respect, it isn't nescessary to treat me as clergy. I am NEW clergy, and just want to be plain old Tikon on this forum.

I had planned on kinda keeping it quiet

new or old, you're still clergy!