Good Works

Heath18 · Mar 17, 2018

To me it seems that Ephesians 2:8 - 9 and James 2:14 - 24 contradict each other.

James says that your good works are evidences of your faith and that you are indeed saved, and without them your faith means nothing. But at the same time, Ephesians is saying that good works do not matter because it is only by God's grace that you have been saved.

It seems that if I agree with Ephesians and ignore James, it is acceptable for me to believe and be saved, then not do any good works.

On the other hand, if I agree with James and ignore Ephesians, I have to believe in Jesus then work to be saved by doing good works so that I have evidence for being saved.

razzelflabben · Mar 17, 2018

for me, James 2:18 brings it all together...But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without works, and I will show you faith from my works.

Works is an outflowing of our faith...iow's they go hand in hand, are part of one another. A faith without works is dead. James 2:17 In the same way faith, if it doesn't have works, is dead by itself

it has never been one or the other it is both and...works flows out of genuine faith

OldWiseGuy · Mar 17, 2018

Good works, like public baptism, just confirms your commitment and is evidence of repentance and conversion. It can't save you. Many Christians have all they can do to keep body and soul together, never mind doing good for others. Some are helpless so that others can be helpful. Both profit thereby.

Sam91 · Mar 17, 2018

Our works (which do not save us) is following Jesus' commands. Love thy God and our neighbour and to go out and spread the good news. Seeing the fruit of the holy spirits grow and bloom.

If you have encountered God's grace and have faith in Him. Wouldn't you want to share that with others. If you loved them you wouldn't want them to face the judgement and go to hell all for thevwant of them hearing the gospel.

We are ambassadors of Christ. We need to live upright lives so that God's name is not maligned.

(Bible verses to be added when my house calms down)

royal priest · Mar 17, 2018

You missed the next verse: Ephesians 2:10

Sam91 · Mar 17, 2018

Surprised that I missed that considering I was talking about this issue and that verse with a friend of mine 13 days ago. Well spotted

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Mar 17, 2018

baptism isn't a work in fact it's often placed in equillivancy with repentance as a part of the salvation process

Acts 2:38 King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Sketcher · Mar 17, 2018

It's not either/or, it's both/and. Good works in fit in according to Ephesians 2:10, they are our mission.
What James 2:14-24 teaches us more about the faith we should have than the deeds we do or do not have. A live, saving faith is enough to stake something of importance on. The faith Abraham had in God was enough to allow him to go through the motions of sacrificing Isaac before God told him to stop and not harm the boy. He had enough faith in God's previous promise that his offspring would be reckoned through this boy that he believed that God would raise Isaac from the dead (Hebrews 11:17-19) or that God would end up providing a ram as a substitute (Genesis 22:7-8; it is unclear if Abraham really believed this at the time or only said it to Isaac, but it is possible that he did have faith in what he told him - I'm sure his mind was racing through this experience, and it's possible to believe in two different solutions to the problem at different times during the same ordeal). And God did end up providing the ram as a substitute. The lesson being, Abraham had enough faith in God to stake his only son's well-being on the promise God made to him. If he doubted God enough to not have that faith, he wouldn't have gone on that journey to begin with. We need to believe in God enough that our faith motivates good works, not from a position of fear, but from a position of spiritual and mental strength and confidence. That kind of faith allowed Paul to obey God throughout his missionary journeys that are detailed in Acts.

Albion · Mar 17, 2018

James is saying--and this is evident if you take in the whole of his epistle--that to claim you have Faith or to convince yourself that you have Faith...while continuing to live the same way as you always did IS NOT FAITH. It is a contradition and evidence of a lack of Faith since Faith is necessarily life-changing.

In both books, the theme is actually the same--Faith saves and nothing that's of our own striving counts.

Afra · Mar 17, 2018

If you do this, it should help you to understand how to reconcile the verses:

1) Study Genesis 12, Genesis 15, Psalm 32, and Genesis 22.
2) Study Hebrews 11, Romans 4, Ephesians 2, and James 2.
3) Attempt to answer the following question: Was Abraham justified in Genesis 12, Genesis 15, or Genesis 22?

If you study the texts carefully, think about the question carefully with an open mind, and ask God in prayer for assistance, you should arrive at the truth.

discipler7 · Mar 18, 2018

.
You should take the Book of James with a pinch of salt because James was the leader of the Judaizers who had demanded that Paul's new Gentile converts be required to also keep Moses Law, eg be circumcised.(GAL.2:9-14, ACTS.15:24-29)

Nevertheless, Christians should keep Moses Law, either partially or fully(= for Jewish Christians), in order to be blessed by God with a good, peaceful and long life while they are still on earth and have yet to be actually saved from hell. IOW, salvation occurs after death.
....... Otherwise, they risk losing their salvation, eg by cursing God and die while suffering on earth for their sins/evil-deeds/law-breaking.(JOB.2:9) Why take unnecessary and grave risks.?

Sam91 · Mar 18, 2018

This is news to me. After all James wanted to make it easy for the Gentiles in the Jerusalem council (see below). Where do you get that info? Thanks.

Acts 15
13 When they finished, James has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles

19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."

Edit.
I noticed after that you posted two scriptures. Having read them I see the Galatians 2 passage as further backing up that James wanted the gentiles to not be burdened with the law.

In acts that the Holy Spirit had revealed to him that the law wasn't for the gentiles.

The law though reveals to us how to serve God and that even though we are not under the sacrificial law we ought to live under the spirit of it.

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Mar 18, 2018

Take a book of the bible with a grain of salt? That’s just what atheist want to hear.....

DreamerOfTheHeart · Mar 23, 2018

The work of God is to believe in his son. But, the Spirit should give you good works performed in faith.

A lot of people take James' comment out of the context. He was talking about having faith versus simply knowing. Many know God exists and Jesus is king, but they do not really believe Jesus because they do not do the deeds Jesus asked for us to do.

aiki · Mar 23, 2018

Perhaps it would help to remember that a person is saved from some things but also saved unto others. We are saved from God's wrath, from eternal punishment, from the power and bondage of the World, the Flesh and the devil, from spiritual deadness, and so on. But we are saved unto a life of holiness, of fellowship with God, unto peace and joy, unto freedom to obey God's commands, unto liberty from the condemnation of the law, etc. Some people, though, "get saved" and think to themselves, "Whew! Dodged a bullet there! Not going to hell now, thank goodness!" They look only at what they are saved from, unaware of (or ignoring) the sanctified life in Christ unto which they are called, and become complacent and compromised spiritually and morally. In contrast, those believers who see what they are saved unto realize that avoiding hell is only a small part of what being born-again means. They hear the "upward call of God in Christ Jesus" and set out upon a life that reflects who they have become in Christ. As a result, they have a life of works that reveal (but do not obtain) their salvation.

DreamerOfTheHeart · Mar 23, 2018

James needs to be looked at in context. In context James was pointing out merely that you may know there is a God and know Jesus is his son, but knowing and belief are not the same thing.

AvgJoe · Mar 25, 2018

Question: "Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?"

Answer: This is perhaps the most important question in all of Christian theology. This question is the cause of the Reformation, the split between the Protestant churches and Catholic Church. This question is a key difference between biblical Christianity and most of the “Christian” cults. Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works? Am I saved just by believing in Jesus, or do I have to believe in Jesus and do certain things?

The question of faith alone or faith plus works is made difficult by some hard-to-reconcile Bible passages. Compare Romans 3:28, 5:1 and Galatians 3:24 with James 2:24. Some see a difference between Paul (salvation is by faith alone) and James (salvation is by faith plus works). Paul dogmatically says that justification is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9), while James appears to be saying that justification is by faith plus works. This apparent problem is answered by examining what exactly James is talking about. James is refuting the belief that a person can have faith without producing any good works (James 2:17-18). James is emphasizing the point that genuine faith in Christ will produce a changed life and good works (James 2:20-26). James is not saying that justification is by faith plus works, but rather that a person who is truly justified by faith will have good works in his/her life. If a person claims to be a believer, but has no good works in his/her life, then he/she likely does not have genuine faith in Christ (James 2:14, 17, 20, 26).

Paul says the same thing in his writings. The good fruit believers should have in their lives is listed in Galatians 5:22-23. Immediately after telling us that we are saved by faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8-9), Paul informs us that we were created to do good works (Ephesians 2:10). Paul expects just as much of a changed life as James does: “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come” (2 Corinthians 5:17). James and Paul do not disagree in their teaching regarding salvation. They approach the same subject from different perspectives. Paul simply emphasized that justification is by faith alone while James put emphasis on the fact that genuine faith in Christ produces good works.

www.gotquestions.org/salvation-faith-alone.html

Jonathan Leo · Mar 27, 2018

Good question and not only a good explanation to show you how there is no contradiction, but also that believing in Jesus to be saved means we must follow in His footsteps, not just belief He exists.

One must not read certain scriptures and come to conclusions. The Bible must be read from beginning to the end so that the reader sees the whole picture. If not, it’s like a jigsaw puzzle and as we all know, we can confuse things and put them in places where they don’t belong.
I will try my best to simplify my answer.

In Ephesians it says your works don’t matter because we are saved by Gods grace. This is very true, but what it is saying here is that our good works are like filthy rags in God eyes. There is a standard to Gods righteousness and we all fall short of Gods righteousness. Our goodness means jack because our sin condemn us Isaiah 64:6

In the book of Romans 7 we see that the law given in Leviticus shows Gods standard for righteousness. In Leviticus,We can also see that with every law given, there is also a sacrifice and punishment for breaking the law. Why?? It’s because we cannot keep Gods law or standard of righteousness. Read Romans 7 because it shows us that the law is good but it brought about sin, for without the law we wouldn’t know our wrong doings.
So when ever you see works can’t save us, it is pointing and I will be specific about it, pointing ONLY TO THE OLD TESTAMENT LAWS. We are saved by grace because God has mercy on us purely on the fact that because of Adams fall, we are naturally born sinners incapable of keeping Gods standard of righteousness.

Now on to James and the New Testament.
When ever we see faith without works or a works teaching in the NT, it is a new beginning because of the new covenant made by God Himself. It is not referring to the works of the Old Testament.
In a nutshell, God gave a once and for all sacrifice for sin by offering up His Son Jesus for us. If you go back to the OT you will see that in order for sin to be cleansed, they had to offer up clean lambs to the slaughter to please God. God demands for sin to be cleansed, blood needs to be spilled. Since Jesus was offered once and for all, there no longer is a way of offering up lambs blood as a sacrifice for sin because God clearly shows us we are sinners and that He died for us on the cross as an atonement for sins. This is the new covenant.

Now John 3:16 shows that the sacrifice for sin has been offered up and those who believe in Him shall not perish but eternal life. If it is Gods will for us to believe in the One He sent (Jesus) John 6:29 then we must believe in Jesus. This is where faith without works comes into play.

If we believe in Jesus, yet we continue in sin, ignore His commands, do not preach His gospel, or give into the flesh, do we really believe in Him? After all, He set us free from sin, gives us the power to overcome the flesh, gives bravery to the cowardly, shows us clearly that His ways are easy and burdens are light.
He warns us that It is He that judges us and if He states that those who lie, steal, cheat, mock, slander, cowardly, drunkards, sexual immoral will be eternally lost,
If he states that we must WORK out our salvation, persevere until the end, grow fruit of His spirit, keep His commands or else we are NOT saved, I ask you to ask yourself, do you really believe in the One He sent??
James 2:19 or basically the demons know Jesus exists but will not see heaven. What makes people think that just because they believe in Jesus yet do not show the works of Him that they are saved? Luke 6:46

So now, there is no contradictions in Gods word but clear as day teaching when you align to Gods ways and His spirit teaching us,

Works cannot save us for we are saved by grace = we cannot keep Gods sandards

Faith without works is dead = believing in Jesus but not following His ways means you really don’t have faith.

What Jesus did is die as an atonement for sin. This brings us back to God. God does not expect us to live perfectly because He knows we can’t but what He does expect us to do is live as Jesus did because with all our mind and free will, we can live how Jesus expects us to do and since Jesus is God, If He says we can crucify our flesh, live in peace with each other, be loving towards each other, forgive our enemies, feed the poor, help the sick, honour God, do not love wealth, do not be trapped by worldly materials or power etc, we can do all those things. When we put Jesus first, were in line with God, when we put ourselves first, we become prideful and selfish and we are led away by our natural carnal sinful ways.
Make no bones about it, we know what truth is because He died for us. He set us free from the slavery of sin. We now know the full truth about good and evil and since we have free will, we have the option of choosing life (Jesus) or death (hell)
When you see works in the New Testament it is NOT referring to the law nobody could keep, it is pointing to the proof that we are true followers of Jesus Christ.

You cannot ever ever ever work your way to heaven, but when you have the only key to heaven (Jesus Christ) we must work to show we are worthy of it. Our work isn’t work, it is a statement of your way of live, exercising your faith so to speak. Work should really be translated to attitute. Faith without an attitude of God is dead. You see if we have faith in Jesus, we becomes heirs and children of God. If we think we are Gods children (faith) but do not show an attitude like our father (works) we aren’t Gods children and are not saved (dead)

Do onto others as you would like them to do to you
You reap what you sow, to the flesh = death to the spirit = life
Forgive and I will forgive you, judge and I will judge you

Faith in Jesus without works to show you truly follow Him means your faith isn’t really faith, it is dead aka you really don’t have faith
Be doers of the commands of Jesus not just hearing it because you are decieved James 1:22

Works in OT = Laws to obey
Works in NT = A way of life that shows Christ within us

Hope this clears things for you
God bless
Amen

Heath18 · Mar 28, 2018

Thank you all for your responses and your efforts to help me to understand.
I now understand that James and Ephesians are speaking about the same concept: true faith results in good works.

Kristen Davis · Apr 6, 2018

Faith without works is dead!

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