Good vs. bad properties in religion

[cloudyday2]

Sometimes I listen to things that religious people say, and I feel like it is wrong to allow them to continue to believe in their religion. These religious people deserve better. It is like allowing an adult to believe in Santa Claus. That's not respecting a person's beliefs; it is not caring about a person's right to know the truth.

On the other hand, I know that religion can sometimes help people psychologically. Also, there is a possibility that false religions might still be useful tools for finding gods, gaining enlightenment, or whatever. For example, the real god(s) might not care if people worship the moon or the stars or Yahweh or Allah or Krishna or Jesus - as long as they are seeking something.

Any ideas about what properties make a religion "bad" so that it would be our duty to lead people out of that religion?

EDIT: Other factors to consider are the capability of the believer to accept the truth and recover. On a forum it is hard to know these things.

 

[Winken]

Thank God Grace is not a religion........

 

[cloudyday2]

Thank God Grace is not a religion........

(1) So how do you define "grace"? Is it a feeling of hope in an afterlife or what? Is it confidence in the existence of a higher power who cares about your life?

(2) For people like myself who do not believe in Christianity, these claims of "grace" are interesting. This would indicate that the specifics of a person's belief might not be important for finding "grace". Maybe you could worship the forest spirits and also find the same "grace". This would mean that the false claims of a religion are not necessarily "bad" if they still lead believers to "grace".

 

[cloudyday2]

One "bad" property of some religions is the penetration into government, public functions, etc. Sharia law of Islam is an extreme example.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Sometimes I listen to things that religious people say, and I feel like it is wrong to allow them to continue to believe in their religion. These religious people deserve better. It is like allowing an adult to believe in Santa Claus. That's not respecting a person's beliefs; it is not caring about a person's right to know the truth.

On the other hand, I know that religion can sometimes help people psychologically. Also, there is a possibility that false religions might still be useful tools for finding gods, gaining enlightenment, or whatever. For example, the real god(s) might not care if people worship the moon or the stars or Yahweh or Allah or Krishna or Jesus - as long as they are seeking something.

Any ideas about what properties make a religion "bad" so that it would be our duty to lead people out of that religion?

EDIT: Other factors to consider are the capability of the believer to accept the truth and recover. On a forum it is hard to know these things.

Christianity is not a religion. It is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. This means that to really understand the Christian faith one must seek to "meet" Jesus on a personal level and hear His voice speaking to their heart. Until that happens, all that person has got is religion and not genuine Christian faith. Jesus said that the sheep (people) who belong to Him hear His voice and recognise it. Also, He has seen that if one seeks Him with all their heart, they will find Him.

Therefore, true Christian faith is knowing Jesus on a personal level and walking with Him throughout life. Anything else just merely a dead religion which is of no use at all other than being a member of a "club".

 

[chevyontheriver]

One "bad" property of some religions is the penetration into government, public functions, etc. Sharia law of Islam is an extreme example.

Sharia law is an up and coming thing. May as well start getting used to it.

 

[cloudyday2]

Christianity is not a religion. It is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. This means that to really understand the Christian faith one must seek to "meet" Jesus on a personal level and hear His voice speaking to their heart. Until that happens, all that person has got is religion and not genuine Christian faith. Jesus said that the sheep (people) who belong to Him hear His voice and recognise it. Also, He has seen that if one seeks Him with all their heart, they will find Him.

Therefore, true Christian faith is knowing Jesus on a personal level and walking with Him throughout life. Anything else just merely a dead religion which is of no use at all other than being a member of a "club".

Honestly, I think Christianity is a religion. In fact the very concept of religion was probably invented to describe Christianity (and other non-ethnic religions that were popular at that time such as Mithraism). When Christianity began to convert people, religion was disconnected from ethnicity. Being a Greek didn't necessarily mean you would worship Greek gods, so the concept of religion became necessary.

Christians typically gather at church on Sundays and study the Bible and so on. That's a religion.

 

[cloudyday2]

Sharia law is an up and coming thing. May as well start getting used to it.

Ugh, I hope you are wrong about that.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Honestly, I think Christianity is a religion. In fact the very concept of religion was probably invented to describe Christianity (and other non-ethnic religions that were popular at that time such as Mithraism). When Christianity began to convert people, religion was disconnected from ethnicity. Being a Greek didn't necessarily mean you would worship Greek gods.

Christians typically gather at church on Sundays and study the Bible and so on. That's a religion.

The term 'religion' comes from Latin 'res ligio', which literally is a thing that binds. The Romans, and the Greeks before them, were very very religious as societies and as individuals. By contrast, Christians were considered almost atheist, not having a god for this and a god for that and a god for the other thing. And many Christians were turned into human torches simply because they would not worship the Roman gods. It was considered damaging to society not to worship those gods, and while some did quietly scoff at it, all but the Christians and the Jews would pay at least lip service to the Roman (Greco-roman) gods.

 

[PloverWing]

Any ideas about what properties make a religion "bad" so that it would be our duty to lead people out of that religion?

I think the things that would most catch my attention are 1) if the religion is destructive to the person, or causes the person to be destructive towards others; or 2) if the religion contains beliefs that are visibly falsifiable.

On (1): If the religion is driving the person to be cruel or violent towards others, or if the religion teaches certain groups of people that they are unworthy of dignity and are deserving of cruelty or violence at the hands of others -- I will step in and try to persuade the believers to change their beliefs.

On (2): Most religious beliefs aren't easily proven or disproven. I can't prove that there's one God, for example, instead of 20 or 100 or none. But sometimes religions make claims about the physical world that can be disproven by careful observation and reasoning. I try not to be obnoxious about it, but I will often try to correct the other person on matters like this.

It's a tricky thing, correcting another person's religion. Sometimes people are genuinely finding enlightenment, or genuinely connecting with the divine, but they put clumsy or incorrect words to their experiences; so they're saying things that are false, if taken at face value, but there's truth buried in it. So I try to approach religious conversations with lots of listening, and humility. But the path of cruelty is not where spiritual enlightenment lies, so I try to divert people from that path when I can.

 

[Eyes wide Open]

Sometimes I listen to things that religious people say, and I feel like it is wrong to allow them to continue to believe in their religion. These religious people deserve better. It is like allowing an adult to believe in Santa Claus. That's not respecting a person's beliefs; it is not caring about a person's right to know the truth.

On the other hand, I know that religion can sometimes help people psychologically. Also, there is a possibility that false religions might still be useful tools for finding gods, gaining enlightenment, or whatever. For example, the real god(s) might not care if people worship the moon or the stars or Yahweh or Allah or Krishna or Jesus - as long as they are seeking something.

Any ideas about what properties make a religion "bad" so that it would be our duty to lead people out of that religion?

EDIT: Other factors to consider are the capability of the believer to accept the truth and recover. On a forum it is hard to know these things.

Indoctrination is bad.

 

[Winken]

.........as long as we comprehend that Salvation by Grace through Faith does not involve religious structure, nor does the standing of saved require "effort" in order to sustain it. Witnessing, testifying, proclaiming the Amazing Grace of God through our Lord and Savior Jesus is obviously not structure but joy. Judaism was the perfect example of rigid religious structure. I don't know how religious it is today.

 

[cloudyday2]

On (1): If the religion is driving the person to be cruel or violent towards others, or if the religion teaches certain groups of people that they are unworthy of dignity and are deserving of cruelty or violence at the hands of others -- I will step in and try to persuade the believers to change their beliefs.

I wonder if the caste system in Hinduism would qualify?

 

[Soyeong]

Sometimes I listen to things that religious people say, and I feel like it is wrong to allow them to continue to believe in their religion. These religious people deserve better. It is like allowing an adult to believe in Santa Claus. That's not respecting a person's beliefs; it is not caring about a person's right to know the truth.

On the other hand, I know that religion can sometimes help people psychologically. Also, there is a possibility that false religions might still be useful tools for finding gods, gaining enlightenment, or whatever. For example, the real god(s) might not care if people worship the moon or the stars or Yahweh or Allah or Krishna or Jesus - as long as they are seeking something.

Any ideas about what properties make a religion "bad" so that it would be our duty to lead people out of that religion?

EDIT: Other factors to consider are the capability of the believer to accept the truth and recover. On a forum it is hard to know these things.

Religion is good insofar as it teaches us how to rightly live in accordance with God's attributes, such as to reflect holiness, righteousness, goodness, justice, mercy, faithfulness, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control, generosity, and freedom. Religion is bad when it promotes things like isolationism, hating others, pride, sexual immorality, tolerance for evil, ignorance, apathy, and greed.

If there is no God and our brains are the product of Evolution, then our brains geared toward believing the truth, but towards believing things that will increase our chance of survival, which may or may not be the same thing, and thus we would have no duty to the truth. We would not even have a duty to survive.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Honestly, I think Christianity is a religion. In fact the very concept of religion was probably invented to describe Christianity (and other non-ethnic religions that were popular at that time such as Mithraism). When Christianity began to convert people, religion was disconnected from ethnicity. Being a Greek didn't necessarily mean you would worship Greek gods, so the concept of religion became necessary.

Christians typically gather at church on Sundays and study the Bible and so on. That's a religion.

I further disagree. If one doesn't know Christ on the personal level then he has nothing but a dead useless religion that achieves nothing.

 

[PloverWing]

I wonder if the caste system in Hinduism would qualify?

I've never lived in India, to see up close how the caste system affects people in their daily lives, but -- yes, from what I understand of it, Hinduism would be spiritually healthier if it could be separated from the caste system.

 

[Soyeong]

Christianity is not a religion. It is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. This means that to really understand the Christian faith one must seek to "meet" Jesus on a personal level and hear His voice speaking to their heart. Until that happens, all that person has got is religion and not genuine Christian faith. Jesus said that the sheep (people) who belong to Him hear His voice and recognise it. Also, He has seen that if one seeks Him with all their heart, they will find Him.

Therefore, true Christian faith is knowing Jesus on a personal level and walking with Him throughout life. Anything else just merely a dead religion which is of no use at all other than being a member of a "club".

religion
[ri-lij-uh n]
noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Christianity fits this definition, so it is by definition a religion, and it is a religion that teaches about the importance of having a personal relationship with God. The concept that we need to have a relationship with God it itself a religious concept, so there absolutely no need to deny the fact that Christianity is a religion in order to speak about the importance of our relationship with Christ.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

religion
[ri-lij-uh n]
noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Christianity fits this definition, so it is by definition a religion, and it is a religion that teaches about the importance of having a personal relationship with God. The concept that we need to have a relationship with God it itself a religious concept, so there absolutely no need to deny the fact that Christianity is a religion in order to speak about the importance of our relationship with Christ.

I think it was James who said that true religion is helping widows and keeping oneself unspotted from the world. He reckons that good religion is more than just theological talk but expresses itself in action. This is why he says that if a person says he has faith, he needs to show it by what he does. Talk is cheap, but action costs a little more.

But Christianity is set completely apart from every other religion. No other religion involves a personal relationship with its God or gods. Other religions involve an advancement of the person from one level to another to reach a kind of paradise. Christianity involves an instantaneous conversion from being dead in sin to being totally alive in Christ and totally acceptable to God. No other religion achieves this.

 

[PloverWing]

No other religion involves a personal relationship with its God or gods.

Just to be fair to other religions -- I'm not sure this is actually true. The poetry of Sufi Islam that I've read expresses a tremendous outpouring of love for God. And the picture of Judaism that we get in the Old Testament involves Abraham arguing with God, Jacob wrestling with God, and prophets receiving messages from God.

I agree that Christianity is unique in our concept of salvation through the person and work of Jesus, and that gives a unique relationship between the Christian and Jesus that is not found in other religions. But as for a personal relationship with God -- if you mean a person loving God with all their heart, and feeling loved by God in return, then I do see this in some other religions.

 

[ananda]

IMO any religion or trait of religion which emphasizes positive, internal, personal development is "good".

Likewise, any which emphasizes the external (e.g. forced compliance upon unwilling others) is "bad", and does not deserve to be called a religion at all, but a political philosophy.