Good Question!

[sageoffools]

Why did God ask Adam and Eve where they were in the Garden of Eden?
Why did God ask Cain where Able was?
Didn't He already know these things?
When God or Jesus asks questions, they always ask them for our benefit.

 

[Time2BCounted]

Why did God ask Adam and Eve where they were in the Garden of Eden?
Why did God ask Cain where Able was?
Didn't He already know these things?
When God or Jesus asks questions, they always ask them for our benefit.

id say we were thinkin along the same lines there Sage

 

[sageoffools]

id say we were thinkin along the same lines there Sage

I Agree!

I think it would have been a strange exchange without this. The man approaches Jesus, and Jesus says "Your name is Legion, for you are many!" Would have been a little weird.

 

[Time2BCounted]

I Agree!

I think it would have been a strange exchange without this. The man approaches Jesus, and Jesus says "Your name is Legion, for you are many!" Would have been a little weird.

LOL thats almost funny now that you mention it, kinda like leading the witness? lol

 

[IamRedeemed]

Why did God ask Adam and Eve where they were in the Garden of Eden?
Why did God ask Cain where Able was?
Didn't He already know these things?
When God or Jesus asks questions, they always ask them for our benefit.

 

[Simon_Templar]

Why did God ask Adam and Eve where they were in the Garden of Eden?
Why did God ask Cain where Able was?
Didn't He already know these things?
When God or Jesus asks questions, they always ask them for our benefit.

it is certain that when God asks questions it is not an indicator that he lacks knowledge, or that he is learning something by the questions.

However, the assumption that he asks them for our benefit does not really answer this particular question. Jesus askes this question for our benefit... ok, in what way does it benefit us to know the demon's name? Why would Jesus set this example, this precedent?

Merely saying it is for our benefit doesn't answer the question. The root question is why or how it benefits us.

 

[IamRedeemed]

Perhaps he added what he did because the expounding on the whys and wherefores, were already explained
in depth by other members? That maybe he didn't want to repeat what had already
been said but wanted to contribute something together with it?

Just a guess ........

it is certain that when God asks questions it is not an indicator that he lacks knowledge, or that he is learning something by the questions.

However, the assumption that he asks them for our benefit does not really answer this particular question. Jesus askes this question for our benefit... ok, in what way does it benefit us to know the demon's name? Why would Jesus set this example, this precedent?

Merely saying it is for our benefit doesn't answer the question. The root question is why or how it benefits us.

 

[Lisa0315]

I think it is to demonstrate his power as what is said, to show us an example of the power that has been given to us in His name, and to also teach us that demons are real.

I am sure there is more and we are not digging deep enough.

Ooh, what was the name in the Greek or Aramic? What was the number assigned to the name? Let me see if I can calculate it: Be back...

Lisa

 

[sageoffools]

it is certain that when God asks questions it is not an indicator that he lacks knowledge, or that he is learning something by the questions.

However, the assumption that he asks them for our benefit does not really answer this particular question. Jesus askes this question for our benefit... ok, in what way does it benefit us to know the demon's name? Why would Jesus set this example, this precedent?

Merely saying it is for our benefit doesn't answer the question. The root question is why or how it benefits us.

See second post

 

[Simon_Templar]

Some have said to show authority.. a sensible answer.. but let me ask a question in response...

Which shows more authority, the fact that the demon must answer his questions? or the fact that he can simply tell it to go and it goes?

Jesus showed authority before simply by casting demons out with a short command, why do it differently here?

 

[Lisa0315]

http://blueletterbible.org/Comm/mhc/Mar/Mar005.html

V. The account Christ took from this unclean spirit of his name. This we had not in Matthew. Christ asked him, What is thy name? Not but that Christ could call all the fallen stars, as well as the morning stars, by their names; but he demands this, that the standers by might be affected with the vast numbers and power of those malignant infernal spirits, as they had reason to be, when the answer was, My name is Legion, for we are many; a legion of soldiers among the Romans consisted, some say, of six thousand men, others of twelve thousand and five hundred; but the number of a legion with them, like that of a regiment with us, was not always the same. Now this intimates that the devils, the infernal powers, are, 1. Military powers; a legion is a number of soldiers in arms. The devils war against God and his glory, Christ and his gospel, men and their holiness and happiness. They are such as we are to resist and wrestle against, Eph. 6:12. 2. That they are numerous; he owns, or rather he boasts—We are many; as if he hoped to be too many for Christ himself to deal with. What multitudes of apostate spirits were there, and all enemies to God and man; when here were a legion posted to keep garrison in one poor wretched creature against Christ! Many there are that rise up against us. 3. That they are unanimous; they are many devils, and yet but one legion engaged in the same wicked cause; and therefore that cavil of the Pharisees, which supposed Satan to cast out Satan, and to be divided against himself, was altogether groundless. It was not one of this legion that betrayed the rest, for they all said, as one man, What have I to do with thee? 4. That they are very powerful; Who can stand before a legion? We are not a match for our spiritual enemies, in our own strength; but in the Lord, and in the power of his might, we shall be able to stand against them, though there are legions of them. 5. That there is order among them, as there is in a legion; there are principalities, and powers, and rulers of the darkness of this world, which supposes that there are those of a lower rank; the devil and his angels; the dragon and his; the prince of the devils and his subjects: which makes those enemies the more formidable.

 

[sageoffools]

Thats why he gets to write his own set of commentaries!

 

[Lisa0315]

http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/comm_read.pl?book=Mar&chapter=5&verse=9&Comm=Comm%2Fdavid_guzik%2Fsg%2FMar_5.html%230%26*David+Guzik%26&Select.x=26&Select.y=13



Mark 5 - Jesus Demonstrates His Authority

A. The authority of Jesus in the life of the Gaderene demoniac.
1. (1-8) The description of the demon possessed man.
Then they came to the other side of the sea, to the country of the Gadarenes. And when He had come out of the boat, immediately there met Him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no one could bind him, not even with chains, because he had often been bound with shackles and chains. And the chains had been pulled apart by him, and the shackles broken in pieces; neither could anyone tame him. And always, night and day, he was in the mountains and in the tombs, crying out and cutting himself with stones. When he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and worshiped Him. And he cried out with a loud voice and said, “What have I to do with You, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I implore You by God that You do not torment me.” For He said to him, “Come out of the man, unclean spirit!”
a. Immediately there met Him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit: This is the most detailed description of a demon possessed man we have in the Bible. It is the classic profile of demonic possession.

• The man had been demon possessed for a long time (Luke 8:27).
• The man wore no clothes and lived like a sub-human, wild animal (Luke 8:27).
• The man lived among the decaying and dead, contrary to Jewish law and human instinct (dwelling among the tombs).
• The man had supernatural strength (chains pulled apart).
• The man was tormented and self-destructive (crying out and cutting himself with stones).
• The man had uncontrollable behavior (neither could anyone tame him). Strangely, some Christians think that this is how the Holy Spirit works: by overwhelming the operations of the body, and making one do strange and grotesque things.

i. We can be sure that he did not start out this way. At one time this man lived among others in the village. But his own irrational, wild behavior convinced the villagers that he was demon possessed, or at least insane. They bound him with chains to keep him from hurting others, but he broke the chains time and again. Finally, they drove him out of town and he lived in the village cemetery, a madman among the tombs, hurting the only person he could - himself.
b. Immediately there met Him: When this man came to Jesus (Jesus did not seek out the man), Jesus said to demon possessing the man, Come out of the man, unclean spirit!
c. Jesus, Son of the Most High God: This is what the demons said in response to Jesus’ command to come out of the man (for He said to them, “Come out of the man”). This was a way they tried to resist the work of Jesus.
i. In the background of all this is the ancient superstition that you had spiritual power over another if you knew or said their exact name. This is why the unclean spirits addressed Jesus with this full title: Jesus, Son of the Most High God. According to the superstitions of the day, this was like a round of artillery fired at Jesus.
ii. “The full address is not a confession of Jesus’ dignity but a desperate attempt to gain control over him or to render him harmless, in accordance with the common assumption of the period that the use of the precise name of an adversary gave one mastery over him.” (Lane)
iii. Therefore, in their address of Jesus they have the right theological facts, but they don’t have the right heart. The demons inhabiting him had a kind of “faith” in Jesus. They knew the true identity of Jesus better than the religious leaders did. But it was not a faith or a knowledge of Jesus that could save (James 2:19).
d. What have I to do with You . . . I implore You by God that You do not torment me: This is the unclean spirit speaking, not the man possessed. The demon did not want to leave his “host.”
i. Demonic possession is when a demonic spirit resides in a human body, and at times the demon will show its own personality through the personality of the host body.
ii. Demonic possession is a reality today, though we must guard against either ignoring demonic activity or over-emphasizing supposed demonic activity.
iii. We are not told specifically how a person becomes demon possessed, other than the inference that it must be by some sort of invitation, whether offered deliberately or not. Superstition, fortune telling, “harmless” occult games and practices, spiritism, New Age deception, magic, drug taking and other things open doors of deception, and present a real demonic danger.
iv. People often get involved in the occult or demonic things because there is something there that seems to work. Unfortunately, it is not something, but someone.
e. Do not torment me: These demons considered it torment to be put out of this man’s body. Why do demons want to inhabit human bodies? For the same reason why the vandal wants a spray can, or a violent man wants a gun. A human body is a weapon that they can use in their attack against God.
i. Demons also attack men because they hate the image of God in man, so they attack that image by debasing man and making him grotesque - just as they did to this man in the country of the Gadarenes.
ii. Demons have the same goal in Christians: to wreck the image of God. But their tactics are restricted toward Christians, because demonic spirits were “disarmed” by Jesus’ work on the cross (Colossians 2:15). Demonic spirits certainly can both deceive and intimidate Christians, binding them with fear and unbelief.
2. (9-13) Jesus demonstrates His authority over evil spirits.
Then He asked him, “What is your name?” And he answered, saying, “My name is Legion; for we are many.” Also he begged Him earnestly that He would not send them out of the country. Now a large herd of swine was feeding there near the mountains. So all the demons begged Him, saying, “Send us to the swine, that we may enter them.” And at once Jesus gave them permission. Then the unclean spirits went out and entered the swine (there were about two thousand); and the herd ran violently down the steep place into the sea, and drowned in the sea.
a. What is your name? Why did Jesus ask for a name? Probably so that we would know the full extent of the problem, knowing that the man was filled with many demons (Legion) not just one. A Roman legion usually consisted of 6,000 men. This does not mean that the man was inhabited with 6,000 demons, but that he had many.
i. From the account as a whole, we see that Jesus was not playing into the ancient superstition about knowing a demon’s name. In fact, Jesus shows that it is unnecessary for Him to know the name of the demon. When they replied “Legion,” they really weren’t saying a name, but simply trying to intimidate Jesus with a large number. Legion says, “There are a lot of us, we are organized, we are unified, we are ready to fight, and we are mighty.”
ii. If it was important for Jesus to know their names, He could have demanded “name, rank, and serial number” for each of them one by one. But Jesus would not play into their superstitions. His power was greater than them.
iii. According to the superstitions of the day, the onlookers probably felt that the unclean spirits had the upper hand. They knew and declared a full name of Jesus. They evaded His request for their name. And finally, they hoped to frighten Jesus with their large number. But Jesus didn’t buy into these ancient superstitions at all, and easily cast the unclean spirits out of the afflicted man.
iv. “The answer may be evasive, the demons desiring to withhold their true names from Jesus in a desperate attempt to thwart his power. It is also possible that the name may have been selected to invoke the fear of a powerful name.” (Lane)
v. It’s important to emphasize this, because it is easy for Christians to get caught up in superstitions about demons and the spiritual realm. Some people act like demonic trouble is spread like cooties. If that were true, think of all the things you come in contact with every day that might have been touched by a demon possessed person. The demonic trouble with objects is found in their content, not in the object itself. We must never be caught up in such foolish and counter-productive superstitions.
b. Also he begged Him earnestly that He would not send them out of the country: Luke 8:31 tells us that the demons also begged Him that He would not command them to go out into the abyss. They did not want to become “inactive.” “Lo, it is another hell to the devil to be idle, or otherwise than evil-occupied.” (Trapp)
i. “Satan would rather vex swine than do no mischief at all. He is so fond of evil that he would work it upon animals if he cannot work it upon men.” (Spurgeon)
ii. Why did these demons want to say in that country? “That it was a paganish, ignorant, sottish place, where usually the devil hath the best markets and the greatest rule. For as it is said of Christ, that he could not do much in some places where he came because of their unbelief; so neither can the devil do much in some places, because of the faith of the gospel received by them. Hence it is observable, that as the devil is not able to play his game in any place amongst Christians, as he doth this day amongst heathens; so he hath much less power at this day in places where the word of God is more generally known, and more faithfully preached, than in other places where people are more ignorant of the Scriptures, and have less faithful and frequent preaching.” (Poole)
iii. In Mark 5:7, the demons demonstrated that they knew who Jesus was. Here they demonstrate that they can “pray” to Jesus (begged Him earnestly). This shows that you can know who Jesus is and not surrender to Him. You can pray to Him and not surrender to Him.
c. Send us to the swine, that we may enter them: Why did the demons want to enter the swine? Because demons are bent on destruction, and hate to be idle. “The devil is so fond of doing mischief, that he will rather play at a small game than stand out.” (Poole)
i. Notice that the demons can’t even afflict pigs without the permission of God. “Since a demon cannot enter even into a swine without being sent by God himself, how little is the power or malice of them to be dreaded by those who have God for their portion and protector!” (Clarke)

 

[Simon_Templar]

I think that the comentaries listed show a number of logical faults and assumptions based on modern mindset, which may not be all that accurate.

First. As the second commentary clearly shows, the demons in the man had no doubt whatsoever about Jesus' power over them. They knew from the moment he came in sight that he had absolute power over them and they were afraid! Terrified even that he had come to torment them before their time.

Then the commentary turns around and tries to argue (in both cases) that the demons were trying to intimidate Jesus by calling themselves legion. I submit that this is contradictory reasoning.


Further, there is something that I think most of us have missed to this point. In the account of this story found in Mark chapter 5, it tells us that the demon posessed man ran up to Jesus and that the unclean spirits within the man begged Jesus not to torment them, BECAUSE he was already saying to them “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!”

So, the scripture tells us that Jesus had already begun to command the spirit to come out of this man, and as he was doing so, or after he had done so, the spirit responded to him, begging him IN THE NAME OF GOD not to torment him.
Only then did Jesus ask the unclean spirit "what is your name?"

Jesus had ALREADY commanded the spirit to come out, the spirit begged for mercy, by God, and only then did Jesus ask "what is your name?"

There seems to be a lot more here than the modern commentaries are willing to admit.
First the demons were at Jesus' mercy and they knew it and were abjectly begging for mercy. To think that they would then suddenly try to intimidate Jesus by using an impressive name seems rediculous at best.

Secondly, the unclean spirits begged for mercy using the phrase “What have you to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I adjure you by God, do not torment me.”

The word adjure here is key I think. I over looked it at first, but what adjure means is to compell someone who is under an oath, or under the force of law.. at the very minimum it means to solemnly implore. It is very strong language.

Thus Legion is either trying to hold Jesus to some over arching law, or at the very least he is giving a grave imploring request by God himself.

This is interesting in the light of other demons who when Jesus approached them cried out "have you come to torment us before our time?".
This seems to imply that there is an appointed time for judgement of unclean spirits and that until that time they are allowed, or even condemned to roam the earth.

It seems probably most likely that adjure in this case must be understood in the imploring sense, but it does also seem to suggest, because the demon adjures him by God, that the unclean spirit is trying to make sure that Jesus respects the alotment of time that God has already given them before their final judgement.

This account also reveals a couple of peculiar things about unclean spirits. First, they seem to equate being disembodied with torment and relatedly, they do not want to be sent to uninhabited locations.

This is very peculiar if you understand demons to be fallen angels.

This spirit requests not to be sent out of the country.. Jesus said when speaking of what happens to a spirit after it is cast out that they "wander through dry places" and after finding no host, they come back to the person from whom they were cast out.

The early church believed that this literally meant that demons wandered in the deserts, and that seems to be the most natrual explanation. A dry place where there is no life, no hosts for the demon to prey upon etc.

Given that they seem to desire to inhabit bodies, and find it to be torment when they can't, this would be a tormenting experience for them.

I find the explanation for the desire to inhabit bodies also somewhat lacking the in commentary above. Demons may enjoy vandalism, but that is a far cry from viewing it as torment to be disembodied. Torment is a strong word.


I think that the modern view of these things simply doesn't have answers for the questions raised by this situation. There are too many things about it that we don't believe in anymore, so it doesn't fit within the scope of what we are willing to see.

 

[Nadiine]

I really Like David Guzik's commentaries - they're alot easier to understand than alot of other ones

 

[Nadiine]

I think that the comentaries listed show a number of logical faults and assumptions based on modern mindset, which may not be all that accurate.

First. As the second commentary clearly shows, the demons in the man had no doubt whatsoever about Jesus' power over them. They knew from the moment he came in sight that he had absolute power over them and they were afraid! Terrified even that he had come to torment them before their time.

Then the commentary turns around and tries to argue (in both cases) that the demons were trying to intimidate Jesus by calling themselves legion. I submit that this is contradictory reasoning.

Well I have to respectfully disagree -- if Satan knows God's power and authority, then why did he even rebel in the first place when he knows God will reign and throw him into Gehenna eternally?

He wouldn't have bothered uprising... so imho, it isn't contrary reasoning; Satan both knows God's power AND still rebels and attacks...
the demons could have been trying to intimidate for the other people's sakes who Jesus was with.?

I just don't think it's contrary reasoning necessarily.

 

[Time2BCounted]

Well I have to respectfully disagree -- if Satan knows God's power and authority, then why did he even rebel in the first place when he knows God will reign and throw him into Gehenna eternally?

He wouldn't have bothered uprising... so imho, it isn't contrary reasoning; Satan both knows God's power AND still rebels and attacks...
the demons could have been trying to intimidate for the other people's sakes who Jesus was with.?

I just don't think it's contrary reasoning necessarily.

Id have to agree. Satan said he WILL ascend above the throne of heaven, he felt he had a game plan that would work evidently. I think that since he is the father of lies, he likely believes his own.

 

[Lisa0315]

Well, you may be right about the second one, I don't know, but you gotta give Matthew Henry some props. He is seriously old skool. Look him up, LOL! I think you will laugh at calling him "modern".

Lisa

I think that the comentaries listed show a number of logical faults and assumptions based on modern mindset, which may not be all that accurate.

First. As the second commentary clearly shows, the demons in the man had no doubt whatsoever about Jesus' power over them. They knew from the moment he came in sight that he had absolute power over them and they were afraid! Terrified even that he had come to torment them before their time.

Then the commentary turns around and tries to argue (in both cases) that the demons were trying to intimidate Jesus by calling themselves legion. I submit that this is contradictory reasoning.


Further, there is something that I think most of us have missed to this point. In the account of this story found in Mark chapter 5, it tells us that the demon posessed man ran up to Jesus and that the unclean spirits within the man begged Jesus not to torment them, BECAUSE he was already saying to them “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!”

So, the scripture tells us that Jesus had already begun to command the spirit to come out of this man, and as he was doing so, or after he had done so, the spirit responded to him, begging him IN THE NAME OF GOD not to torment him.
Only then did Jesus ask the unclean spirit "what is your name?"

Jesus had ALREADY commanded the spirit to come out, the spirit begged for mercy, by God, and only then did Jesus ask "what is your name?"

There seems to be a lot more here than the modern commentaries are willing to admit.
First the demons were at Jesus' mercy and they knew it and were abjectly begging for mercy. To think that they would then suddenly try to intimidate Jesus by using an impressive name seems rediculous at best.

Secondly, the unclean spirits begged for mercy using the phrase “What have you to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I adjure you by God, do not torment me.”

The word adjure here is key I think. I over looked it at first, but what adjure means is to compell someone who is under an oath, or under the force of law.. at the very minimum it means to solemnly implore. It is very strong language.

Thus Legion is either trying to hold Jesus to some over arching law, or at the very least he is giving a grave imploring request by God himself.

This is interesting in the light of other demons who when Jesus approached them cried out "have you come to torment us before our time?".
This seems to imply that there is an appointed time for judgement of unclean spirits and that until that time they are allowed, or even condemned to roam the earth.

It seems probably most likely that adjure in this case must be understood in the imploring sense, but it does also seem to suggest, because the demon adjures him by God, that the unclean spirit is trying to make sure that Jesus respects the alotment of time that God has already given them before their final judgement.

This account also reveals a couple of peculiar things about unclean spirits. First, they seem to equate being disembodied with torment and relatedly, they do not want to be sent to uninhabited locations.

This is very peculiar if you understand demons to be fallen angels.

This spirit requests not to be sent out of the country.. Jesus said when speaking of what happens to a spirit after it is cast out that they "wander through dry places" and after finding no host, they come back to the person from whom they were cast out.

The early church believed that this literally meant that demons wandered in the deserts, and that seems to be the most natrual explanation. A dry place where there is no life, no hosts for the demon to prey upon etc.

Given that they seem to desire to inhabit bodies, and find it to be torment when they can't, this would be a tormenting experience for them.

I find the explanation for the desire to inhabit bodies also somewhat lacking the in commentary above. Demons may enjoy vandalism, but that is a far cry from viewing it as torment to be disembodied. Torment is a strong word.


I think that the modern view of these things simply doesn't have answers for the questions raised by this situation. There are too many things about it that we don't believe in anymore, so it doesn't fit within the scope of what we are willing to see.

 

[Nadiine]

Id have to agree. Satan said he WILL ascend above the throne of heaven, he felt he had a game plan that would work evidently. I think that since he is the father of lies, he likely believes his own.

It seems futile to me that a created cherub would think he could usurp the God that made him. Maybe his pride and hatred became so great that he did actually believe his own lies due to the level of evil.

I mean, he didn't go on "faith" - believing God without seeing, he was WITH God and served God directly.
Something's screwed up there someplace - he doesn't seem to think rationally at all imo.

 

[Nadiine]

Well, you may be right about the second one, I don't know, but you gotta give Matthew Henry some props. He is seriously old skool. Look him up, LOL! I think you will laugh at calling him "modern".

Lisa

I think Matthey Henry is harder to understand than the KJV (good, but... help!)