Good Question!

[Latreia]

It was my impression that the Scriptures would teach the denial of "demon power" and the repulsion of the devil.

It seems to me that dwelling upon the subject of demonology and attempts to merge it into the basis of Christianity is a way to totally negate the saving grace that Jesus brought to us.

Why seek to further empower the darkness rather than staying in the Light?

Just because Jesus had the power over demons by calling them by name does not necessarily follow that Christians should make it a point to know all the names of demons and study all the ways of the devil's minions.

That evil path is one that Christians are able to avoid because of our Saviour's power and grace.

When the devil is studied and investigated, that seems to imply that we are fascinated with dark powers.

Remember, all the devil has to do is get your attention and get you to listen to him,
Much easier for him to get at your soul.

Thank you for this thread that I may voice my own opinions.

 

[Lisa0315]

It was my impression that the Scriptures would teach the denial of "demon power" and the repulsion of the devil.

It seems to me that dwelling upon the subject of demonology and attempts to merge it into the basis of Christianity is a way to totally negate the saving grace that Jesus brought to us.

Why seek to further empower the darkness rather than staying in the Light?

Just because Jesus had the power over demons by calling them by name does not necessarily follow that Christians should make it a point to know all the names of demons and study all the ways of the devil's minions.

That evil path is one that Christians are able to avoid because of our Saviour's power and grace.

When the devil is studied and investigated, that seems to imply that we are fascinated with dark powers.

Remember, all the devil has to do is get your attention and get you to listen to him,
Much easier for him to get at your soul.

Thank you for this thread that I may voice my own opinions.

Latria, No one here is doing that. I came across a curiosity in Scripture that I had never thought about before. There is nothing wrong in trying to understand the richness and deepness there. It was actually great encouragement to me to read the responses and do the study.

Lisa

 

[Father Rick]

The case of Legion is the only place in scripture that shows more than one demonic spirit oppressing a person.

I personally believe that the reason Jesus asked the name of Legion (Legion was a military term for a group of 4,000 - 6,000 soldiers... like "platoon", or "squadron") was to illustrate that one can have more than demonic spirit.

 

[nyj]

It could also have to do with the fact that Jesus was a man, and simply did not know.

Jesus was 100% God & 100% Man.

 

[Colabomb]

Jesus was 100% God & 100% Man.

OF course he is, but frankly none of us fully understands the hyperstatic union, and we all make gaffs.

I could have been mistaken, i dunno.

 

[Latreia]

Jesus was 100% God & 100% Man.

Excuse me, I just thought all conservative Christians held that belief,

From the CCC Statement of Belief:

http://foru.ms/t6036184-conservative-christian-statement-of-beliefs-and-rules-09-04-07.html

God is triune. God has revealed Himself in three co-equal and co-eternal persons. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are not parts of God, each of them is God.

 

[Colabomb]

Excuse me, I just thought all conservative Christians held that belief,

From the CCC Statement of Belief:

http://foru.ms/t6036184-conservative-christian-statement-of-beliefs-and-rules-09-04-07.html

God is triune. God has revealed Himself in three co-equal and co-eternal persons. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are not parts of God, each of them is God.

we all do, i dont understand your question.

 

[Colabomb]

I of course admit I often make theological mistakes. From what everyone has told me so far, it appears I was wrong.

 

[Lisa0315]

I of course admit I often make theological mistakes. From what everyone has told me so far, it appears I was wrong.

We all do. The difference is that some admit it and some do not.

None of us have it 100% correct.

Lisa

 

[Latreia]

we all do, i dont understand your question.

Actually, it was not a question, it was a reminder of conservative statement.

Originally Posted by ColaBomb
It could also have to do with the fact that Jesus was a man, and simply did not know

 

[Epiphanygirl]

I agree, the authority and power, is the best answer so far. I am wondering if there is something in Jewish history/customs that would shed some light on this as well. That may be where the Caths are getting the calling the name out thingie. Alot of their traditions are very Jewish in origin.

Lisa

You are quite right on this Lisa, but maybe one of our Catholic brethren who has books on Exorcism could give more detail about it......

 

[Colabomb]

Actually, it was not a question, it was a reminder of conservative statement.

Originally Posted by ColaBomb
It could also have to do with the fact that Jesus was a man, and simply did not know

Jesus is a man. Jesus is God. I never denied the Divinity of Christ.

The whole point is it is difficult to understand how that works, and I made a mistake. The Hyperstatic union is an extremely difficult doctrine, and none of us can pretend to understand it perfectly.

Stop looking for heresy where it doesn't exist. I have been lobbying for the very existence of this forum for almost as long as you have been a member, so please don't try to lecture me on what conservatism is.

If you want to question my orthodoxy we can go there. I would prefer we just chalk it up to a simple misunderstanding.

 

[Lisa0315]

You are quite right on this Lisa, but maybe one of our Catholic brethren who has books on Exorcism could give more detail about it......

I found it in the Catholic Encyclopedia. I posted it here awhile back. It was very interesting.

Lisa

 

[Latreia]

Jesus is a man. Jesus is God. I never denied the Divinity of Christ.

The whole point is it is difficult to understand how that works, and I made a mistake. The Hyperstatic union is an extremely difficult doctrine, and none of us can pretend to understand it perfectly.

Stop looking for heresy where it doesn't exist. I have been lobbying for the very existence of this forum for almost as long as you have been a member, so please don't try to lecture me on what conservatism is.

If you want to question my orthodoxy we can go there. I would prefer we just chalk it up to a simple misunderstanding.

Excuse me, but now you are calling in all the externals that support you, which is not at all what I could have known.

I merely replied to your comment:

Originally Posted by ColaBomb
It could also have to do with the fact that Jesus was a man, and simply did not know

And that was all I knew at that time.
When you post such a statement, do
also demand that others may not try to respond to it?

Suddenly, you reprimand me with all kinds of facts not discenable from those few words. You call my quoting a few words from the statement of this forum a whole lecture that challenges your orthodoxy?

Heresy is a strong word, it should be saved for very serious application.

At least be fair, if you can't be charitable.

 

[Father Rick]

You are quite right on this Lisa, but maybe one of our Catholic brethren who has books on Exorcism could give more detail about it......

I found it in the Catholic Encyclopedia. I posted it here awhile back. It was very interesting.

Lisa

It depends on which form of rite of exorcism you are using.

An exorcism minor frequently does not include asking the name of the demonic spirit. A "formal exorcism" (aka "the Roman Rite") does include the following:

2. Then he commands the demon as follows: I command you, unclean spirit, whoever you are, along with all your minions now attacking this servant of God, by the mysteries of the incarnation, passion, resurrection, and ascension of our Lord Jesus Christ, by the descent of the Holy Spirit, by the coming of our Lord for judgment, that you tell me by some sign your name, and the day and hour of your departure. I command you, moveover, to obey me to the letter, I who am a minister of God despite my unworthiness; nor shall you be emboldened to harm in any way this creature of God, or the bystanders, or any of their possessions. 3. Next he reads over the possessed person these selections from the Gospel, or at least one of them.

However, whether the demonic spirit answers or not, the priest continues on with the reading of the Gospel and the following prayers.

The adjurations do not utilize the name of the spirit, even if it is known. There are several used, but here is the first one as an example:

I cast you out, unclean spirit, along with every satanic power of the enemy, every spectre from hell, and all your fell companions; in the name of our Lord Jesus + Christ Begone and stay far from this creature of God. + For it is He who commands you, He who flung you headlong from the heights of heaven into the depths of hell. It is He who commands you, He who once stilled the sea and the wind and the storm. Hearken, therefore, and tremble in fear, Satan, you enemy of the faith, you foe of the human race, you begetter of death, you robber of life, you corrupter of justice, you root of all evil and vice? seducer of men, betrayer of the nations, instigator of envy, font of avarice, fomentor of discord, author of pain and sorrow. Why, then, do you stand and resist, knowing as you must that Christ the Lord brings your plans to nothing? Fear Him, who in Isaac was offered in sacrifice, in Joseph sold into bondage, slain as the paschal lamb, crucified as man, yet triumphed over the powers of hell. (The three signs of the cross which follow are traced on the brow of the possessed person). Begone, then, in the name of the Father, + and of the Son, + and of the Holy + Spirit. Give place to the Holy Spirit by this sign of the holy + cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, who lives and reigns with the Father and the Holy Spirit, God, forever and ever.
All: Amen.

 

[IamRedeemed]

First, we know the name of Jesus is the name above every name, every knee must bow and every tongue confess, He is the Lord. Philippians 2:9-11

Demons know He is the Lord. When Jesus was approaching the man who had a legion, they cried out, "what have we to do with thee, Jesus, Son of God, have you come to torment us before the time?" Matthew 8:29, Mark 1:24

In order to cast a demon out, we must identify what spirit is operating and then exorcise the authority we have in the name of Jesus as those who are redeemed over it.

One healing that a woman received in Jesus' ministry which kept her bent over for 18 years, Jesus identified as a spirit of infirmity, and He casted it out. Luke 13:10-19

In another deliverance, the disciples couldn't cast a certain demon out of a young boy. After the father of the boy brought him to Jesus explaining that his disciples couldn't cast it out. Jesus cast it out and when the Disciples asked Him why they couldn't cast it out, Jesus said, "this kind goes out only be fasting and prayer."
Matthew 17:21 , Mark 9:29

This indicates that Jesus is confirming that we must first identify the spirit that operating, as we cannot bind it or loose it unless we know what it is. And of course if we fast and pray regularly, then we will be prepared to cast out even those which require fasting and prayer. Jesus fasted and prayed regularly.

Knowledge of what type of spirit it is we may have before us may be given to us through a word of knowledge or a word of wisdom and if not we can ask the spirit to tell us its name, and it must obey, because of a true believer's authority in Christ. By experience, identifying the spirits in operation can also helpful for future ministry of deliverance.

If a person is not a true believer in Christ and has not the Holy Spirit and they try this, they may experience something similar to what the sons of Sceva experienced.
So, I wouldn't recommend that anyone who is not sure of who they are in Christ, go out and try this.

They thought it was pretty cool that demons obeyed the Disciples, and so they thought they would try it and using the name of Jesus, they commanded the demons to come out of a man and the demons replied, "Jesus we know and Paul we know, but who are you?" and they jumped on the seven sons of Sceva, tore them up and shred their clothes off of their bodies and sent them running away naked and wounded. Acts 19:10-16

 

[Simon_Templar]

I of course admit I often make theological mistakes. From what everyone has told me so far, it appears I was wrong.

its actually a fairly common issue. There have been several different sources that have postulated that Jesus' incarnation limited his access to divine power. They would not say that he ceased to be God, but that he limited his divine capacities some how.

This idea is usually based on, or supported by phillipians 2:7 (if memory serves) and is often times called "kenosis theory" Kenosis is the greek word paul uses to describe how Christ "emptied" himself. Some suggest that this emptying was a laying aside of some of his divine powers.

it is, however, a misreading of that passage which is not talking about the nature of his being, but rather the outward appearance. it is talking not about his essense, but rather his reputation.

also, as a nitpick its hypostatic, not hyperstatic (kind of unimportant, but I thought you might want to know)

 

[jive4005]

When Jesus asks.. you tell!

rev

 

[Lisa0315]

When Jesus asks.. you tell!

rev

Absolutely! However, what my question was about was why did Jesus ask when He already knew?

Lisa

 

[Time2BCounted]

Jesus asked many questions of many people, though i feel He knew before He asked

The man with the son posessed. The apostles coundnt cast it out and Jesus asked the father "Do you believe", and the father replied "Lord i believe, help my unbelief"

Again He asked "Whos image is on this coin?" Render to Caesar what is his.

Again He asked "Who do men say that IAm?"

and "Who do YOU say that I Am?"

He asked "Are ye not worth MUCH more than these?", when speaking of the lillies and the sparrows whom God watches and blesses.

He asked "Do you betray your master with a kiss?"


All these things i would say He knew. I personally believe His questions were mainly for the ones He was addressing, and secondarily to those who heard. We are told often that Jesus perceived these things prior to asking, not in every case are we told this, but in enough to cause me to believe this is likely so.