Good manners dept.: What do I call God's creation?

[Black Dog]

In a different section of the forum we are discussing the flood, and the canopy of ice that surrounded the earth (Kent Hovind?) A Christian said they believed the canopy was created by God, which is fine, and matches their beliefs. As an atheist I can't say it is "God's Creation", but it can't be called natural either. So, when referring to it, do I call it a "magic canopy" or a "supernatural canopy" or ????

 

[essentialsaltes]

hypothetical canopy

 

[Received]

cantopy

 

[Percivale]

magical canopy would be taken as derogatory, supernatural canopy would be acceptable. You could say created canopy since that's the concept, even though we don't believe the concept is actual. I can say "valinor was crafted by the Valar" without implying belief in them. Very few Christians believe in the canopy anyway, even among YECs.

 

[Chriliman]

magical canopy would be taken as derogatory, supernatural canopy would be acceptable. You could say created canopy since that's the concept, even though we don't believe the concept is actual. I can say "valinor was crafted by the Valar" without implying belief in them. Very few Christians believe in the canopy anyway, even among YECs.

The reason I believe there was a canopy of water/ice is because God says Himself that He made it that way.

Genesis 1:6-8
"And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.”"

So here we have water below and water above and between the waters is sky. This means the waters above could have been frozen in the atmosphere in someway. Definitely not impossible and would explain the state of the earth pre-flood as being super lush and oxygenated. The canopy would have caused a super greenhouse effect, which would have allowed life to grow very large, which would explain why we find large creatures like dinosaurs in the ground today. Recently paleontologists have been finding blood cells in dinosaur bones, which means there is no way dinosaurs are millions of years old, but rather thousands of years old.

What argument do you have that shows the canopy didn't exist? Just curious

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

It should be self evident that calling something within a person's religious belief 'magic' is going to be taken as derogatory.

'Supernatural' is the way to go when debating the religious. It's definition is 'relating to what is unable to be explained by science or the laws of nature', and harbors no ill context.

 

[Goonie]

Hypothetical canopy, might be a good term.

 

[SkyWriting]

In a different section of the forum we are discussing the flood, and the canopy of ice that surrounded the earth (Kent Hovind?) A Christian said they believed the canopy was created by God, which is fine, and matches their beliefs. As an atheist I can't say it is "God's Creation", but it can't be called natural either. So, when referring to it, do I call it a "magic canopy" or a "supernatural canopy" or ????

"Water Canopy" or "scriptural water canopy" or "biblical water canopy" .

 

[Black Dog]

"Water Canopy" or "scriptural water canopy" or "biblical water canopy" .

That's good, just need to change water to ice. Thanks.

 

[SkyWriting]

That's good, just need to change water to ice. Thanks.

I dunno why.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

The ice layer. Oh it burns.

hypothetical canopy does sounds decent enough.

 

[Black Dog]

I dunno why.

Because the person I'm discussing the issue with says it is a layer of ice.

 

[Percivale]

The reason I believe there was a canopy of water/ice is because God says Himself that He made it that way.

Genesis 1:6-8
"And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.”"

So here we have water below and water above and between the waters is sky. This means the waters above could have been frozen in the atmosphere in someway. Definitely not impossible and would explain the state of the earth pre-flood as being super lush and oxygenated. The canopy would have caused a super greenhouse effect, which would have allowed life to grow very large, which would explain why we find large creatures like dinosaurs in the ground today. Recently paleontologists have been finding blood cells in dinosaur bones, which means there is no way dinosaurs are millions of years old, but rather thousands of years old.

What argument do you have that shows the canopy didn't exist? Just curious

Here's an article from YECs about why the canopy is wrong:
https://answersingenesis.org/environmental-science/the-collapse-of-the-canopy-model/
My first thought in reading the passage was that the waters above are the clouds. I don't know if that's what the original audience thought, or if they thought the blue sky was water, or something else. Since I believe in an old earth, the cretaceous has those warm temperatures for the dinosaurs, with over double the CO2 in the atmosphere than currently. Blood cells in dinosaur bones are not nearly as reliable a dating method as radioisotope dating, which is just one of many evidences for an old earth. We don't know just how long cells last, and the environment is a big influence on that. We do know how long isotopes last, and they aren't affected by environment.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The theme of Genesis 1 is the dividing of good from evil, using the creation as a metaphor. The 'waters above' is the moisture located in the upper troposphere that have been cleansed by evaporation/distillation. Without this continuous cleansing cycle the earth would soon die. There was no thick, heavy water 'canopy' that collapsed at the time of the flood.