Good and Evil

[BL2KTN]

If God created you, and you then create evil... is that on you? Or should God be blamed for the sins of man, as well as the sins of Satan?

I thought sin entered the world through Adam? How can Satan sin if Satan wasn't part of the fall? If he was part of the fall, why doesn't he die like all other creatures, along with all his demons?

 

[PsychoSarah]

If God created you, and you then create evil... is that on you? Or should God be blamed for the sins of man, as well as the sins of Satan?

Depends on whether or not you consider god omniscient and omnipotent.

 

[Faith Unites]

Evil cannot exist within itself. The thing must first be good to become evil.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Evil cannot exist within itself. The thing must first be good to become evil.

How do you figure that?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[PsychoSarah]

Evil cannot exist within itself. The thing must first be good to become evil.

Doesn't mean evil ever has to exist. Also, you are forgetting being neutral, which is neither good nor evil, or can also be being both good and evil.

 

[Faith Unites]

If the starting point is neutral then there is no good or evil. Evil is a perversion of good. If something is deemed evil it still has good in it. Only when that thing ceases to exist can it be void of good.

 

[Paradoxum]

.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

If God created you, and you then create evil... is that on you? Or should God be blamed for the sins of man, as well as the sins of Satan?

If a mad scientist created a murderous robot, would it be the robot's fault he was programmed to kill or the scientist who designed it?

Here, God is the scientist. He created us and gave us the capacity to do bad, evil, harmful, etc. He could have easily made it impossible for humans to be evil or bad. But he didn't.

Not only that but he also created the environment that led A&E to temptation. First by putting an illegal fruit bearing tree in the Garden, (Why?) then by putting a conniving, talking serpent in the Garden that would lead A&E into temptation.

Keep in mind, they don't yet have the ability to discern right from wrong. They had to mess up first before they could realize they shouldn't have done that.

If all this is literally true, then that was a pretty evil thing God did by setting A&E up for a failure that they could never avoid.

I mean... Let's say they weren't supposed to do that. Now let's say they didn't break any of the rules. What would then be the point of Christ? There would be no need for a savior if A&E had never eaten from the tree.

God wanted us to fail in Eden. That's about all I could make out of that story.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

If the starting point is neutral then there is no good or evil. Evil is a perversion of good. If something is deemed evil it still has good in it. Only when that thing ceases to exist can it be void of good.

What is considered "good" or "evil" depends entirely on who's asking the question. What some consider good or not evil, others might find completely reprehensible. What you might think of as evil, others might disagree and not see it that way.

Good and evil don't actually exist objectively because whats what depends entirely on the observer.

 

[Feldon]

If a mad scientist created a murderous robot, would it be the robot's fault he was programmed to kill or the scientist who designed it?

Here, God is the scientist. He created us and gave us the capacity to do bad, evil, harmful, etc. He could have easily made it impossible for humans to be evil or bad. But he didn't.

Not only that but he also created the environment that led A&E to temptation. First by putting an illegal fruit bearing tree in the Garden, (Why?) then by putting a conniving, talking serpent in the Garden that would lead A&E into temptation.

Keep in mind, they don't yet have the ability to discern right from wrong. They had to mess up first before they could realize they shouldn't have done that.

If all this is literally true, then that was a pretty evil thing God did by setting A&E up for a failure that they could never avoid.

I mean... Let's say they weren't supposed to do that. Now let's say they didn't break any of the rules. What would then be the point of Christ? There would be no need for a savior if A&E had never eaten from the tree.

God wanted us to fail in Eden. That's about all I could make out of that story.

Free will is not free of consequences.

Implicit in free will is freedom. Freedom to glorify, freedom to sin.

If humans have free will, why not Angels?

 

[Feldon]

I thought sin entered the world through Adam? How can Satan sin if Satan wasn't part of the fall? If he was part of the fall, why doesn't he die like all other creatures, along with all his demons?

Sin literally "entered" the world when Adam sinned, because Adam was the first man. That doesn't mean that the concept of sin didn't exist before Adam.

There's more to this universe than just us humans, you know.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Free will is not free of consequences.

Implicit in free will is freedom. Freedom to glorify, freedom to sin.

If humans have free will, why not Angels?

I don't believe we have total freewill either. Everything you think you are deciding on your own is a product of your culture, environment, given circumstances, upbringing, personal convictions... etc. No one is truly free to decide everything for themselves.

 

[Feldon]

Depends on whether or not you consider god omniscient and omnipotent.

I believe God is infinite.

That doesn't mean His creations are infinite.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

I believe God is infinite.

That doesn't mean His creations are infinite.

No but if that's the case, he definitely made us limited in our understanding. Therefore, he can't really fault us for not matching his perfect wisdom. We were never meant to.

 

[BL2KTN]

Sin literally "entered" the world when Adam sinned, because Adam was the first man. That doesn't mean that the concept of sin didn't exist before Adam.

There's more to this universe than just us humans, you know.

Define world... apparently there's more to it than the "heavens and the earth" in the bible.

 

[Feldon]

I don't believe we have total freewill either. Everything you think you are deciding on your own is a product of your culture, environment, given circumstances, upbringing, personal convictions... etc. No one is truly free to decide everything for themselves.

That's true, only God has infinite Free Will.

Don't see how that negates the price -- and horror -- of human Free Will. Otherwise, there would be a lot fewer people in our prisons...

 

[Feldon]

Define world... apparently there's more to it than the "heavens and the earth" in the bible.

What I mean is that Adam was the first man, and therefore the first man to sin.

That doesn't mean the concept/reality of sin was "invented" by Adam. Why would we assume that? There certainly seems to be non-earthbound creations referenced in the Bible.

 

[Feldon]

No but if that's the case, he definitely made us limited in our understanding. Therefore, he can't really fault us for not matching his perfect wisdom. We were never meant to.

Maybe our goal isn't to "match" God. That would be awfully arrogant.

Maybe our goal is to love our brothers & sisters, cherish our blessings, thank the Almighty for our gifts, and make the best decisions we can -- as fallible, flawed, sinful, finite creatures?

 

[BL2KTN]

What I mean is that Adam was the first man, and therefore the first man to sin.

That doesn't mean the concept/reality of sin was "invented" by Adam. Why would we assume that? There certainly seems to be non-earthbound creations referenced in the Bible.

Because the bible says that death entered the world through Adam's sin. Why were other things sinning and death not being the result? And how bad would it suck to be the guy whose sin condemned everybody to being set on fire... and people are all like, "what the heck did you do? Seriously???" "Oh, I ate a magic fruit." "You condemned us all to being set on fire for a trillion years for eating a magic fruit..." "Yeah, I don't really have this whole God's justice thing figured out yet. I was thinking bad heartburn or something for the fruit, but no, he's planning on setting us all on fire unless he kills hiimself for us."

 

[PsychoSarah]

I believe God is infinite.

That doesn't mean His creations are infinite.

Then that makes god accountable for everything.