Gone To Rest

[CoreyD]

Myth : When the righteous die, their soul goes to heaven.
Truth :
John 11:
11 These things He said, and after that He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.”
12 Then His disciples said, “Lord, if he sleeps he will get well.”
13 However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep.
14 Then Jesus said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead.

23 Jesus said to [Martha], “Your brother will rise again.”
24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.
26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
27 She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

43 Now when He had said these things, He cried with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come forth!”
44 And he who had died came out bound hand and foot with graveclothes, and his face was wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, “Loose him, and let him go.”

Did Lazarus go to heaven, and did Jesus bring Lazarus from there?
The scriptures show that the dead are resting, asleep in the grave. They know not anything. Ecclesiastes 9:5

Jesus helps us understand how the dead are resting in their grave.
Jesus said,

"For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will." John 5:21​

"Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth." John 5:28, 29​

In verse 28, Jesus uses the Greek mnémeion (μνημεῖον), which means memorial, or monument.
So, the verse literally reads, in part, all who are in the memorial will hear His voice and come forth.
The memorial of whom?

The answer seems obvious, but what scriptures clarify that it is those in God's memorial.
John 20:
37 But even Moses showed in the burning bush passage that the dead are raised, when he called the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’
38 For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him.”

To put that in familiar human terms : In God's mind, they are living.
Thus, they are in God's memory, and because God remembers them, he will resurrect them to life again.

It is comforting to know that the dead are only sleeping, and will awaken, at Jesus' call, and we will see our loved ones again, in the new world to come.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort those who are in any trouble, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.
2 Corinthians 1:3, 4​

 

[Unqualified]

i was blessed to know I knew where my loved ones went after death and that I would see them again.

 

[Diamond7]

Myth : When the righteous die, their soul goes to heaven.
Truth :
John 11:
11 These things He said, and after that He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.”

Anyone who has ever been to a funeral knows that our body goes no where. It just decays and rots away. Only our body will be raised up at the resurrection. When we die, our spirit and soul goes to Heaven. Jesus brings that spirit and soul of the departed with Him back to the earth to be joined back together with our body.

In Heaven we will be at our prime. That is in the 26 to 33 years of age range. Actually, anyone that they find their remains before Noah's flood looks to be in the prime of life because they lived up to 1000 years. Chedder man is an example of the remains they have found from someone that lived 10,000 years ago.

 

[BobRyan]

Myth : When the righteous die, their soul goes to heaven.
Truth :
John 11:
11 These things He said, and after that He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.”
12 Then His disciples said, “Lord, if he sleeps he will get well.”
13 However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep.
14 Then Jesus said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead.

23 Jesus said to [Martha], “Your brother will rise again.”
24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.
26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
27 She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

43 Now when He had said these things, He cried with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come forth!”
44 And he who had died came out bound hand and foot with graveclothes, and his face was wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, “Loose him, and let him go.”

Did Lazarus go to heaven, and did Jesus bring Lazarus from there?
The scriptures show that the dead are resting, asleep in the grave. They know not anything. Ecclesiastes 9:5

Jesus helps us understand how the dead are resting in their grave.
Jesus said,

"For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will." John 5:21​

"Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth." John 5:28, 29​

In verse 28, Jesus uses the Greek mnémeion (μνημεῖον), which means memorial, or monument.
So, the verse literally reads, in part, all who are in the memorial will hear His voice and come forth.
The memorial of whom?

The answer seems obvious, but what scriptures clarify that it is those in God's memorial.
John 20:
37 But even Moses showed in the burning bush passage that the dead are raised, when he called the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’
38 For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him.”

To put that in familiar human terms : In God's mind, they are living.
Thus, they are in God's memory, and because God remembers them, he will resurrect them to life again.

It is comforting to know that the dead are only sleeping, and will awaken, at Jesus' call, and we will see our loved ones again, in the new world to come.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort those who are in any trouble, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.
2 Corinthians 1:3, 4​

Good points and of course there is Matt 22 where Jesus "proves" the future resurrection to strong opposing argument by Sadducees by making the case "God is not the God of the dead".

This means that given that restriction - God could only be called "The God of Abraham" while speaking to Moses in Exodus - if He were viewing Abraham as a participant in the future resurrection of the saints. His proof was so compelling that even his strongest enemies were "put to silence" as the Matt 22 text reminds us.

 

[BobRyan]

Anyone who has ever been to a funeral knows that our body goes no where. It just decays and rots away. Only our body will be raised up at the resurrection. When we die, our spirit and soul goes to Heaven. Jesus brings that spirit and soul of the departed with Him back to the earth to be joined back together with our body.

True.

It is not the decaying dead body that "sleeps" because in fact it turns "to dust" - it "is killed" at the first death as per Matt 10:28.

1 Thess 4:13-18, Rev 6, John 11 all refer to the person as sleeping in death. "our friend Lazarus sleeps I go that I may wake HIM".

In Heaven we will be at our prime. That is in the 26 to 33 years of age range

That is true in the case of the resurrection. 1 Cor 15 and 2 Cor 5 tell us there are only two bodies involved. This first one that turns to dust .. that is "killed" and the resurrected body. Which is the focus of the Christian church in 1 Thess 4:13-18.

 

[Diamond7]

It is not the decaying dead body that "sleeps" because in fact it turns "to dust" - it "is killed" at the first death as per Matt 10:28.

John Wesley believed the actual elements that make up our body are gathered back together again. We see this in Revelation 20:13 "The sea gave up the dead people who were in it"

It is possible our atoms contain our memory and a copy of our DNA. It is even possible for every atom in our body to contain all of the information for all of the universe. According to quantum physics, when we look at what they call Qubits. They use this in the super or quantum computers. That does not even get into entanglement.

What the Bible calls: "dust" Sagan and Tyson hosts of PBS Cosmos calls star stuff. In the book: "Walking the Bible" they talk about the actual red clay that God used to make Adam in Eden. A part of us was there in the beginning and we are very tied in with the univese and everything in the Universe. Even if there were Aliens they would still be made up of the same elements that we are made of.

 

[Aaron112]

Did Lazarus go to heaven, and did Jesus bring Lazarus from there?
The scriptures show that the dead are resting, asleep in the grave. They know not anything. Ecclesiastes 9:5

So in effect, this is actually a rhetorical question as the answer is given even before the question,
though it is noted worldwide that
tradition trumps the Bible in most places...

 

[Diamond7]

i was blessed to know I knew where my loved ones went after death and that I would see them again.

I have a fair amount of contact with people who have departed and gone to Heaven. Or maybe I just have a very active imagination. When I got saved it was as if the roof had been blown off of the building. Later on I learned that there are portals where those in Heaven and look in and see important events in our life.

 

[Aaron112]

Jesus brings that spirit and soul of the departed with Him back to the earth to be joined back together with our body.

This is common tradition, but necessarily contradicts some Scripture.
For evidence from Scripture, Genesis thru Revalation,
see if it can be found "The Rich Man and Lazarus " by e.w.bullinger.

 

[Aaron112]

I have a fair amount of contact with people who have departed and gone to Heaven. Or maybe I just have a very active imagination. When I got saved it was as if the roof had been blown off of the building. Later on I learned that there are portals where those in Heaven and look in and see important events in our life.

I think that is referred to in God's Word as fairy tales, not reality.

 

[CoreyD]

Anyone who has ever been to a funeral knows that our body goes no where. It just decays and rots away. Only our body will be raised up at the resurrection.

Why do you believe that? Is there a scripture that says this?

When we die, our spirit and soul goes to Heaven. Jesus brings that spirit and soul of the departed with Him back to the earth to be joined back together with our body.

Can you provide a scripture please. This is the Exposition & Bible Study sub-forum.

In Heaven we will be at our prime. That is in the 26 to 33 years of age range. Actually, anyone that they find their remains before Noah's flood looks to be in the prime of life because they lived up to 1000 years. Chedder man is an example of the remains they have found from someone that lived 10,000 years ago.

I'm sure many people, will be disappointed.

 

[CoreyD]

Good points and of course there is Matt 22 where Jesus "proves" the future resurrection to strong opposing argument by Sadducees by making the case "God is not the God of the dead".

This means that given that restriction - God could only be called "The God of Abraham" while speaking to Moses in Exodus - if He were viewing Abraham as a participant in the future resurrection of the saints. His proof was so compelling that even his strongest enemies were "put to silence" as the Matt 22 text reminds us.

I'm quite sure Abraham will be happy living on the new earth. The saints are a small number, chosen only after Jesus walked the earth. Revelation 7:1-4; Revelation 14:1-4; Luke 22:28-30

 

[CoreyD]

So in effect, this is actually a rhetorical question as the answer is given even before the question,
though it is noted worldwide that
tradition trumps the Bible in most places...

That is true.
Mark 7:
6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men

 

[BobRyan]

So in effect, this is actually a rhetorical question as the answer is given even before the question,
though it is noted worldwide that
tradition trumps the Bible in most places...

Which is where there had to be the "Reformation"

 

[BobRyan]

John Wesley believed the actual elements that make up our body are gathered back together again. We see this in Revelation 20:13 "The sea gave up the dead people who were in it"

Some people were drowned and some were burned to ashes and then their ashes scattered or animal ate their bodies.

But God is not short on carbon atoms. He can make the new body at the resurrection without needing to chase down exact carbon atoms from a body-turned-to-dust.

It is possible our atoms contain our memory and a copy of our DNA

That is like asking if some sand contains the blueprints to your house inside a grain of sand.

It is even possible for every atom in our body to contain all of the information for all of the universe

Because??

. According to quantum physics, when we look at what they call Qubits. They use this in the super or quantum computers. That does not even get into entanglement.

neither Qubits nor entanglement provide a mechanism for placing all the info in the universe in a single atom unless you can get infinite Qubits in a single bit..

 

[CoreyD]

Some people were drowned and some were burned to ashes and then their ashes scattered or animal ate their bodies.

But God is not short on carbon atoms. He can make the new body at the resurrection without needing to chase down exact carbon atoms from a body-turned-to-dust.

Good point.
I like how Paul puts it.
But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body. 1 Corinthians 15:38
Simple, and to the point.

 

[Diamond7]

Some people were drowned and some were burned to ashes and then their ashes scattered or animal ate their bodies.

Wesley covers that in his sermon. It is online if you want to read it. If you are eaten by an animal or shark, then they can use your stored energy but they an not use the essence of you. That will pass right through them.

But God is not short on carbon atoms. He can make the new body at the resurrection without needing to chase down exact carbon atoms from a body-turned-to-dust.

He can but that is not really us - resurrected, it is a clone of us. We know that God is in the remodeling and renovation business when it comes to restoring us. He can build new if He wanted to, but it would not be us.

That is like asking if some sand contains the blueprints to your house inside a grain of sand.

Sand does follow a blue print, we call it the natural laws. What came first the sand or the laws that regulate sand. Or do they coexist. Is the "blueprint" somehow in the sand itself. Science really does not know, Although it has a lot to do with gravity.

 

[Diamond7]

I think that is referred to in God's Word as fairy tales, not reality.

The Bible does not talk about fairy tales. There is a lot of symbolism, paradigms, parables, archtypes and so on in the Bible. Half the books in our library are fiction. For example 2001 A Space Odyssey. Is there really a risk of Hal the computer taking over the spaceship? Sometimes science fiction is more accurate than science for predicting the future. Men of science are often very heavy into science fiction. Carl Sagan could write science and science fiction. He was an astrophysicist, cosmologist, author, and science communicator. Sagan is best known for his ability to make complex scientific ideas accessible to the general public through his engaging and compelling writing and speaking.

I remember a book called: "Of mice and men". Lenny is a big clumsy guy and the last thing he wants to do is hurt anyone. Yet that is exactly what he does. I know people like that in real life. Fiction has real life applications. I had my son take a class in literature, designed to help readers, scholars, and teachers analyze and understand literature more effectively.

Arthur C. Clarke was known for having a deep understanding and knowledge of science. He was a prolific science fiction writer, futurist, and inventor, often referred to as one of the "Big Three" science fiction writers along with Isaac Asimov and Robert A. Heinlein.

Acts 2:15 "Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your young men shall see visions, your old men shall dream dreams." I know people have a problem with dreams and visions but it does seem to be a way God communicates with us.

 

[Aaron112]

The Bible does not talk about fairy tales.

Yes, Yahweh warns against falling for them, in various ways/ words , times and places. Like do not tolerate a false gospel , but if anyone brings a false gospel, do not even greet them, do not have a meal with them, but put them out so the assembly is not guilty of that sin.

 

[Clare73]

Myth : When the righteous die, their soul goes to heaven.
Truth :
John 11:
11 These things He said, and after that He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.”
12 Then His disciples said, “Lord, if he sleeps he will get well.”
13 However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep.
14 Then Jesus said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead.

23 Jesus said to [Martha], “Your brother will rise again.”
24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.
26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
27 She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

43 Now when He had said these things, He cried with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come forth!”
44 And he who had died came out bound hand and foot with graveclothes, and his face was wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, “Loose him, and let him go.”

Did Lazarus go to heaven, and did Jesus bring Lazarus from there?
The scriptures show that the dead are resting, asleep in the grave. They know not anything. Ecclesiastes 9:5

Their bodies know not anything. But the spirits of the righteous are with Jesus.

EDIT: See Php 1:21-24, 2 Co 5:8, Lk 23:43.

Jesus helps us understand how the dead are resting in their grave.
Jesus said,

"For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will." John 5:21​

"Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth." John 5:28, 29​

That would be the resurrection of the dead at the end of time when the spirits of the righteous are reunited with their transformed glorious, sinless, imperishable bodies.

EDIT: See 1 Th 4:15-17.
("The dead in Christ will rise first;" i.e., before the rapture)

In verse 28, Jesus uses the Greek mnémeion (μνημεῖον), which means memorial, or monument.
So, the verse literally reads, in part, all who are in the memorial will hear His voice and come forth.

EDIT: The Greek word mnémeion means sepulchre (Mt 23:29), grave (Mt 27:52), tomb (Mt 27:60) and memorial, anything done to preserve the memory of persons.
The use of mnémeion in Jn 5:28 does not mean "memorial," it means "grave."

The memorial of whom?
The answer seems obvious, but what scriptures clarify that it is those in God's memorial.
John 20:

37 But even Moses showed in the burning bush passage that the dead are raised, when he called the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’
38 For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him.”
To put that in familiar human terms : In God's mind, they are living.
Thus, they are in God's memory, and because God remembers them, he will resurrect them to life again.

Human spirits are not just in God's memory, they are immortal and are in existence.
The spirits of those in Christ are with Christ at the death of their bodies.

EDIT: See Php 1:21-24, 2 Co 5:8, Lk 23:43.

It is comforting to know that the dead are only sleeping, and will awaken, at Jesus' call, and we will see our loved ones again, in the new world to come.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort those who are in any trouble, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.
2 Corinthians 1:3, 4​

Sleep is a metaphor for death.