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Featured Gog/Magog

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Douggg, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Daniel 9:
    26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

    Gog/Magog of Ezekiel 38, up to Ezekiel 39:16, happens here. The 7 years following are this week in verse 27


    27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Ezekiel 39:17-20 Armageddon, Ezekiel 39:21- 29 beginning of the millennium, happens here


     
  2. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    From the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America, over 300 years before I was born.


    Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.

    Daniel 9:27
    And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    (a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

    (b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

    (c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

    ........................................................................

    Why would we think the angel Gabriel came to reveal the New Covenant Messiah and then forgot to mention the New Covenant?

    The scriptural reference beside of Daniel 9:27 in my NKJV Bible is Matthew 26:28.

    .
     
  3. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Gog will be motivated to attack the Christian peoples, gathered out of the nations, Ezekiel 38:8, living in peace and prosperity, without defenses, Ezekiel 38:10-13, for the reason of grabbing loot. But God inspires him, so as He can display His power. Ezekiel 38:33

    I see this attack as happening before the leader of the One World Government comes to new Israel to make a 7 year peace treaty. It seems likely that this incredible victory over Gog from Magog, will be what makes the OWG leader agree to a treaty.

    The G/M attack has nothing to do with Armageddon. Different people, different reason, later time.
     
  4. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    While Gog/Magog (7 years earlier) is separate from Armageddon, Armageddon is in Ezekiel 39 in Ezekiel 39:17-20, as also found in Revelation 19:17-18.

    Ezekiel 39:
    17And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.

    18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.

    19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.

    20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.

    Revelation 19:
    17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

    18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
     
  5. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Bab2, what is the feast in Ezekiel 39:17-20 about? And when does Ezekiel 39:21-29 take place?
     
  6. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Why do you think the 'fowls of the air feasting on the bodies' must only happen at one time?
    This has surely happened in the past and will happen again at the G/M wipe out and again at the destruction of the worlds armies at Armageddon.
     
  7. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I am not saying just one time. I am saying in Ezekiel 39, there are two feasts, both future of us.

    One is the feast on Gog's army (Gog/Magog) in Ezekiel 39:4. The second feast is 7 years later in Ezekiel 39:17-20, which is the Armageddon feast.

    Gog/Magog will take place. Then seven years later Armageddon will take place.
     
  8. God bless Joshua

    God bless Joshua Member

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    God will place the hook at the jaws of Gog and his allies as He did to Pharaoh because of what ?
    Conceited Arrogancy, inhumane and Blasphemy
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  9. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    We generally agree, then.
    I would think though, that the G/M attack will happen before the start of the last 7 years. Because it is then that the peace treaty is signed between the leader of the OWG and the leaders of the new nation of Beulah, because of what happened to G/M.
     
  10. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Gog/Magog right before the 7 years start.

    But the 7 years is not the peace treaty idea. The "for" 7 years comes from a requirement that Moses made in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 that all future leaders of Israel confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years, then repeat the confirming big speech again 7 years later, repeatedly on that cycle.

    What the confirming will be is a big speech, from the Temple Mount, by the person who will be perceived by the Jews as their messiah, and crowned the King of Israel (making him the Antichrist) that God gave the children of Israel, the land of Israel as theirs forever.

    Which the Jews will think they have entered the messianic age of "peace and safety".
     
  11. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    And what does my interpretation of that text have to do with the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27?


    Dr. Kelly Varner on Daniel chapter 9:
     
  12. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Your interpretation of Daniel 9:27 cannot possibly be right in light of Ezekiel 39:17-20 and Ezekiel 39:21-29.
     
  13. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Since the same interpretation is found in the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America, it is really not my personal interpretation.

    Since the angel Gabriel came to reveal the timeline of the New Covenant Messiah, any interpretation which leaves out the New Covenant cannot possibly be right.

    Get yourself a copy of the New King James Version Bible and look up the scriptural reference beside of Daniel 9:27. You will find it is Matthew 26:28, which also agrees also with the 1599 Geneva Bible.

    .
     
  14. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The footnotes in the Geneva Bible are the commentary of men. You have chosen to parrot some man's interpretation on Daniel 9:26-27.

    What is the war or battle that causes Ezekiel 39:17-20 ? That war is preceded by the 7 months cleanup of the aftermath of Gog/Magog, and the 7 years of burning the weapons.

    To show you how wrong the footnotes are in the Geneva bible, the commentator in the footnotes says it is not Israel, but the Church in Ezekiel 39.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
  15. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Do you think the angel Gabriel came to announce the timeline of the Messiah who would bring in the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and then the angel forgot to mention the New Covenant?

    Also remember that Daniel was reading the Book of Jeremiah when the angel Gabriel appeared.

    I do not know where you got your interpretation of Daniel 9:27, but it was not from the Bible.

    The covenant with the many in Daniel 9:27 is the same covenant with the many announced by the New Covenant Messiah in Matthew 26:28.

    ............................................................................

    The Battle of Gog and Magog is the Battle of Armageddon.

    See the link below for an article which proves it.

    Gog of Magog - Here a little, there a little - Prophecy


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  16. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I see the Ezekiel 38 Gog/Magog attack as the Armageddon event of Revelation 16, which is to occur on the last day of this world, on the 7th Vial, 7th Trumpet.

    There very well may be a 'simulation' of this event by world leaders in order to bring in 'their' "king of the world" (i.e., false messiah), for the tribulation events. Since we are given Antiochus Epiphanes indirectly as a blueprint for the coming "vile person" to Jerusalem that our Lord Jesus warned us about in Matt.24, and Apostle Paul in 2 Thess.2, what Antiochus did in Jerusalem in 170-165 B.C. becomes an important study in relation to the very end.

    Per the Jewish historian Josephus (100 A.D.), Atiochus IV conquered Jerusalem with an army, sacrificed swine inside the Jerusalem temple and spread its broth around in it, and then setup an idol for Zeus worship and commanded all to bow in worship to it. That serves as a blueprint for the coming false one to Jerusalem to make a "league" with a small group of people there, and setup the idol abomination that makes the temple desolate per Dan.8, 9, 11, & 12.
     
  17. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Gog/Magog cannot happen as the Battle of Armageddon because Israel is living in peace at the time Gog/Magog attacks.

    Armageddon, differently, is at the end of the great tribulation.
     
  18. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    I read the article. I note it was written in 2007, I wonder if he would say the same today?

    It is sheer speculative rubbish to say that the G/M attack is the same as Armageddon. They simply don't match, only in the fact that the Lord wipes them both out. He has doen this before and will do it again; at the end of the Millennium.
    However for us today; this issue is of no concern, as we will soon enough experience the reality of what must happen.

    As for the Geneva Bible, you apply it to Americans. What about Christians elsewhere?
    As we now have access to all the ancient manuscripts and a far better knowledge of the ancient languages and the meanings intended, our modern Bible translations are far superior.
    Why retrograde yourself, unless your reason is to promote theories that are debunked now.
     
  19. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    From the very oldest Christian commentary on scripture, the commentary on Daniel by Hippolytus, which is thought to have been published between the years 202 and 211, A.D, which, if correct, makes it's publication date no less that 1388 years before the Geneva Bible:

    “For after sixty-two weeks was fulfilled and after Christ has come and the Gospel has been preached in every place, times having been spun out, the end remains one week away, in which Elijah and Enoch shall be present and in its half the abomination of desolation, the Antichrist, shall appear who threatens desolation of the world. After he comes, sacrifice and drink offering, which now in every way is offered by the nations to God, shall be taken away.” (Commentary on Daniel, by Hippolytus, book 4, 35.3)

    Hippolytus returned to this subject some pages later, writing:

    “Just as also he spoke to Daniel, “And he shall establish a covenant with many for one week and it will be that in the half of the week he shall take away my sacrifice and drink offering,” so that the one week may be shown as divided into two, after the two witnesses will have preached for three and a half years, the Antichrist will wage war against the saints the remainder of the week and will desolate all the world so that what was spoken may be fulfilled, “And they will give the abomination of desolation one thousand two hundred ninety days. Blessed is he who endures to Christ and reaches the one thousand three hundred thirty-five days!” (Commentary on Daniel, by Hippolytus, book 4, 50.2)
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
  20. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No decapitated 70th week:

    198-203 AD Clement of Alexandria (On Daniel 9:24-27 ; The 'Seventy Weeks' of Daniel):

    From the captivity at Babylon, which took place in the time of Jeremiah the prophet, was fulfilled what was spoken by Daniel the prophet as follows: "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people, and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to seal sins, and to wipe out and make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal the vision and the prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. Know therefore, and understand, that from the going forth of the word commanding an answer to be given, and Jerusalem to be built, to Christ the Prince, are seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; and the street shall be again built, and the wall; and the times shall be expended. And after the sixty-two weeks the anointing shall be overthrown, and judgment shall not be in him; and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary along with the coming Prince. And they shall be destroyed in a flood, and to the end of the war shall be cut off by: desolations. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the middle of the week the sacrifice and oblation shall be taken away; and in the holy place shall be the abomination of desolations, and until the consummation of time shall the consummation be assigned for desolation. And in the midst of the week shall he make the incense of sacrifice cease, and of the wing of destruction, even till the consummation, like the destruction of the oblation." That the temple accordingly was built in seven weeks, is evident; for it is written in Esdras. And thus Christ became King of the Jews, reigning in Jerusalem in the fulfilment of the seven weeks. And in the sixty and two weeks the whole of Judaea was quiet, and without wars. And Christ our Lord, "the Holy of Holies," having come and fulfilled the vision and the prophecy, was anointed in His flesh by the Holy Spirit of His Father. In those "sixty and two weeks," as the prophet said, and "in the one week," was He Lord. The half of the week Nero held sway, and in the holy city Jerusalem placed the abomination; and in the half of the week he was taken away, and Otho, and Galba, and Vitellius. And Vespasian rose to the supreme power, and destroyed Jerusalem, and desolated the holy place. And that such are the facts of the case, is clear to him that is able to understand, as the prophet said.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
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