gods word

[Arikay]

Again, can you explain to me how they knew god was right Before they knew the difference between right and wrong?

Eve only understood what deceived ment, After she ate the fruit, not Before.


The only way for them to know god was right and the snake was wrong. was to have the knowledge of right and wrong. But they didnt until they ate the fruit. Only after they ate the fruit did they have the knowledge of right and wrong. only After they ate the fruit did they trully know it was wrong to eat the fruit.


So why is it their fault?

Today at 07:23 PM SBfaithful said this in Post #21


the ultimate authority figure told them not to, yet they did anyway.
They blatantly disobeyed God.

They disobeyed a direct order.

Genesis 3:13
...The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate"

Deceived from what, the truth?

 

[Arikay]

Do you have scripture for this?

Today at 07:25 PM SBfaithful said this in Post #22


In the Old Testament there was a different covenant.
The people of that time used blood atonment for sin.
They sacrificed animals to God to be forgiven of their sins.

 

[SBfaithful]

Today at 03:34 AM Arikay said this in Post #25

Do you have scripture for this?

Leviticus 1:1-5
Leviticus 4:3
Leviticus 17:11-14

It all ended with Jesus.
He was the final sacrifice. Mark 14:24
Luke 22:20
John 1:29
1 John 1:7

 

[SBfaithful]

Today at 03:33 AM Arikay said this in Post #24

Again, can you explain to me how they knew god was right Before they knew the difference between right and wrong?

Eve only understood what deceived ment, After she ate the fruit, not Before.


The only way for them to know god was right and the snake was wrong. was to have the knowledge of right and wrong. But they didnt until they ate the fruit. Only after they ate the fruit did they have the knowledge of right and wrong. only After they ate the fruit did they trully know it was wrong to eat the fruit.


So why is it their fault?

They should have listened to the one that created them.
They knew where they came from. He was their authority.That's all I can say.

 

[Doctrine1st]

Why blood sacrifice anyway...aint that kind of, you know, pagan?

 

[Arikay]

So are you saying that they knew right from wrong before they ate the fruit? (the only way to know to listen to god instead of the snake, is to know right from wrong.)

Today at 07:51 PM SBfaithful said this in Post #27

They should have listened to the one that created them.
They knew where they came from. He was their authority.That's all I can say.

 

[SBfaithful]

Today at 04:15 AM Arikay said this in Post #29

So are you saying that they knew right from wrong before they ate the fruit? (the only way to know to listen to god instead of the snake, is to know right from wrong.)

Where does it say that they didn't know right from wrong?

 

[Arikay]

The fruit gave them the knowledge of good and evil. Right and wrong are a type of good and evil.

So they should have only known right and wrong after they ate the fruit.

Today at 08:21 PM SBfaithful said this in Post #30


Where does it say that they didn't know right from wrong?

 

[SBfaithful]

Today at 04:34 AM Arikay said this in Post #31

The fruit gave them the knowledge of good and evil. Right and wrong are a type of good and evil.

So they should have only known right and wrong after they ate the fruit.

Right and wrong are a type of good and evil.
But where does it say the tree of right and wrong.Do not add to Gods words, nowhere does it say that.

ADAM AND EVE HAD FREE WILL TO CHOOSE, THEY CHOSE EVIL(SATAN)
They chose to face the consequence of death instead of life.

 

[Received]

I think we're digging ourselves into a pit by saying that Adam and Eve were unable to know the consequences of their actions if they were not already in a state of evil. This is because such a situation was - by Christian and Judaic claims - one of perfection, which we are not in the present, and therefore unable to answer.

 

[Arikay]

Ok, if right and wrong are a type of good and evil, then the knowledge of right and wrong would be contained in the fruit of good and evil.
They had freewill, but they lacked the ability to understand evil.


Recievied: I disagree. I can think along the same lines of adam and eve.

so far, it seems that Adam and eve were unjustly punished for a deed they didnt understand.

I dont hit a puppy because it didnt understand the situation. I blame myself for not watching the puppy.

Today at 08:41 PM SBfaithful said this in Post #32


Right and wrong are a type of good and evil.
But where does it say the tree of right and wrong.Do not add to Gods words, nowhere does it say that.

ADAM AND EVE HAD FREE WILL TO CHOOSE, THEY CHOSE EVIL(SATAN)
They chose to face the consequence of death instead of life.

 

[Received]

Recievied: I disagree. I can think along the same lines of adam and eve.

so far, it seems that Adam and eve were unjustly punished for a deed they didnt understand.

I dont hit a puppy because it didnt understand the situation. I blame myself for not watching the puppy.

You cannot think on the same lines as Adam and Eve in their perfection. It also wasn't a simple mind game that led to their fall - though Eve is blamed with being tricked, Adam is given full blame. Many theologians hold this and his silence during the whole ordeal, as he was with her when she picked. That is moral perversion - hardly a work of the mind.

 

[Received]

And besides, there are many who believe - such as Aquinas and Pascal - that the fall resulted in every sort of depravity, the mind being included. Your looking back upon an event involving perfect minds - remember, this is contingent on the bible being objective truth - is futile and fallicious given your imperfect rationality. You cannot think the same way they once did.

 

[repentandbelieve]

16th March 2003 at 02:33 AM rcr said this in Post #1

Gods words are important because it shows the way of liife . It says that he died on the cross. He gave us a sencond chance.

Its very important.

Jesus said "if you abide in My word, you are my disciples indeed" "and you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free" John 8:31-32

 

[Arikay]

So that brings up an interesting question. If they were perfect before the fall, Why would they even think of doing something wrong?

But since they lacked the ability to tell right from wrong (before eating the fruit).

Tell me, why they should be punished for not understanding the snake was wrong?

 

[repentandbelieve]

Today at 05:23 AM Arikay said this in Post #38

So that brings up an interesting question. If they were perfect before the fall, Why would they even think of doing something wrong?

But since they lacked the ability to tell right from wrong (before eating the fruit).

Tell me, why they should be punished for not understanding the snake was wrong?

In Genesis 2:16-17 God commanded Adam saying "Of every tree in the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

In Genesis 3:4 the serpant said  "you will not surly die"

Eve chose to believe the serpant instead of God and suffered the conseqences of transgressing Gods law.  




 

 

[Arikay]

So, Eve was punished for not understand which person to believe.

How would eve know which person to believe?

 

[Quath]

Yesterday at 07:02 PM Aaron11 said this in Post #19 hey quath-
you think that people of the OT had no chance at salvation? why you think such a thing?

After the Temple Of Babel that confused cultures, God only appeared to a small group of people.  Basically, the rest of the world worshiped different gods and thus would not be able to go to heaven.

So why wait a few thousand years to send Jesus?  What did that accomplish? 

Scott (Quath)

 

[Quath]

Yesterday at 08:41 PM SBfaithful said this in Post #32
Right and wrong are a type of good and evil.
But where does it say the tree of right and wrong.Do not add to Gods words, nowhere does it say that.

ADAM AND EVE HAD FREE WILL TO CHOOSE, THEY CHOSE EVIL(SATAN)
They chose to face the consequence of death instead of life.

Nowehere does it say that Satan was the snake.  In fact, the story is more consistent with the snake being God.

After all, if God is omnipotent and can see the future, then this was one huge setup.  So if Satan did talk to the innocent Adam and Eve, God would know about it and put a stop to it there.  Instead He acted like it was all new information to Him when Adam confessed.  So either God was being deceptive and acted like He didn't know stuff He knew, or He is not omnipotent.

God also has shown that He does not respect free will.  He forces Pharoah to keep the Isrealites as slaves even though Pharoah wants to set them free.  He also forces Pharoah to follow the Isrealites just so God can kill him.  If God has no respect for free will here, why think He respects free will in the Garden of Eden?

So by Gods own admission, He will force people to act so He can punish them.  Therefore, it seems reasonable that He setup the fall of man so He could punish mankind.

Scott (Quath)

 

[Received]

But since they lacked the ability to tell right from wrong (before eating the fruit).

Tell me, why they should be punished for not understanding the snake was wrong?

This is where we're running off into the deep end. Who says because a person is perfect that he cannot know evil from good? Is not evil a subtraction from the good? Is perfection not capable of obeying directions?

Who said they didn't know the snake was wrong? Obviously Eve knew he was wrong or else she wouldn't have rebuted him with her first words. But Adam is the shady figure here; as said above, he was the silent one when Eve picked, and according to Christian theology, the two are one flesh. Even modern philosophy and psychology claim that man is bent towards justification while women are along the lines of compassion and relatedness.