God's Sabbath rest is not a weekly seventh day rest

[stuart lawrence]

Hi Doveaman,

How are you today? Good I hope?

You are saying my posts are confusing to you in regards to Col 2 because I have not described the difference between "Holy days and Sabbath(s) referred to in Col 2:16? My posts are not confusing at all. because if you read my first post 325 these have already been described here. So maybe the confusion is on your side because you did not read the post.

Here let me cut and paste it again for you.

Holy days


Sabbath(s)


So clearly there is no confusion on my part if I have already provided you the answer. It looks like the confusion is with you my friend. If we are breaking God's commandments to follow man made traditions we are not following Jesus (Mark 7:5-13). God is calling us to follow Jesus according to His Word (Matt 4:4). If we do not follow God according to His Words then the Word of God teaches that these people are "Unbelievers" and unbelievers have no part in the Kingdom of Heaven. My prayer is that you may receive all of God's Word and follow Jesus in Spirit and in Truth (John 4:24).

I am also wondering why you are making straw man arguments to Bob Ryan? Who has ever said to you that we are saved by keeping the Law? If no one has said this then why bring it up? I hope this clears up your confusion.

In Christ always!

Bob Ryan is a seventh day Adventist. Every SDA I have ever met believes they are justified for heaven if they obey the TC
I assume all sda speak with one voice where justification/ righteousness is concerned.
So if we are breaking Gods commandments we are not following Jesus according to his word. If we are not following God according to his word we are unbelievers.
Yet at the same time you state we are not saved/righteous by obeying Gods laws.
Confusion reigns, to put it nicely

 

[stuart lawrence]

But now, by dying to what once bound us we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, not the old way of the written code/ law
Rom7:6

The above is not compatible with saying: If you don't obey the TC you cannot be saved.
If you must obey the TC to be in a saved state, you must have righteousness before God of observing the law.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hello Stewart,

You say;

Bob Ryan is a seventh day Adventist. Every SDA I have ever met believes they are justified for heaven if they obey the TC I assume all sda speak with one voice where justification/ righteousness is concerned.

I have never heard anyone say this so I do not know. God knows if you are telling the truth or not. I do not. I will leave that between you and God. I am sure Bob Ryan can answer for himself.

So if we are breaking Gods commandments we are not following Jesus according to his word. If we are not following God according to his word we are unbelievers. Yet at the same time you state we are not saved/righteous by obeying Gods laws. Confusion reigns, to put it nicely

We are only saved by the Faith we have in God's Word that leads to obedience by walking in the Spirit (Eph 2:8; Rom 8:1). God only gives His Spirit to those that obey him (Acts 5:32) He that says he knows Jesus and does not keep His commandments is liar and the truth is not in him (1 John 2:4). Confusion only reigns in those breaking God's Commandments because they do not know they are lost.

In Christ Always!

 

[stuart lawrence]

Hello Stewart,

You say;

I have never heard anyone say this so I do not know. God knows if you are telling the truth or not. I do not. I will leave that between you and God. I am sure Bob Ryan can answer for himself.

We are only saved by the Faith we have in God's Word that leads to obedience by walking in the Spirit (Eph 2:8; Rom 8:1). God only gives His Spirit to those that obey him (Acts 5:32) He that says he knows Jesus and does not keep His commandments is liar and the truth is not in him (1 John 2:4). Confusion only reigns in those breaking God's Commandments because they do not know they are lost.

In Christ Always!

As you do not even try to keep each and every command of Christ, according to your quote, does that mean you are a liar and the truth is not in you?
I know you believe a person is saved by faith, but you do NOT believe a person remains saved/ righteous/ justified by faith. For you believe a person can only be in a saved state as a Christian if they obey the TC. Therefore, you believe the Christian is only righteous before God as long as they obey the law the Bible says is the letter that kills/ the ministry of death and condemnation.
It's interesting, that you don't include the second greatest commandment, that supercedes nine of the TC in your oft repeated statements.
Let me be clear, neither you or anyone else who goes to church on a Saturday obeys the TC and second greatest commandment. You follow a partial watered down version of them, that is all.
You don't understand Pauls message, for that message hinges on knowing you are righteous apart from observing the law. You have made it plain in your statements you can only be in a saved state if you do observe the law.
The Christian is not under law. The power of sin is the law.
Understand Pauls message and you understand the NC.

But now, by dying to what once bound us we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not the old way of the written code
Rom7:6
You try and follow in the old way of the written code

BTW
You couldn't produce one single verse if scripture could you, once the NC is in operation that states the words:
You must obey the TC

 

[stuart lawrence]

Those who insist you must obey the TC to be saved, cannot and do not practice what they preach/ demand of others. It is simply making pat statements that have no bearing on the reality of their lives.
They are following the law, not living by faith, for the law us not based on faith( gal3:12)
LGW relies on obeying the law to be in a saved state, justified before God, as he has made clear:

All who rely on observing the law are under a curse. For it is written: cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the book of the law. Clearly, no one is justified before God by observing the law. For the righteous shall live by faith.
Gal3:10&11

 

[stuart lawrence]

And I will repeat in this thread. Quoting the letter of scripture to try and convince people as to which law they must observe should be a futile exercise, for that law is within the Christian. It is in their most inward parts, it is written in their minds and placed on their hearts.
The Jerusalem Church, did NOT ask gentile converts to observe the laws of avoiding the Levitical unclean foods, when deciding upon which Jewish laws gentiles be asked to follow( Acts ch15). The SDA church insist you must observe those laws, God still requires you to follow them. Therefore, the sda church must believe the first century church gave gentiles a licence to sin.
That of course is ridiculous. But it does show, the sda do not properly understand the law God desires the Christian to follow. And they, as a church insist you must observe a set Saturday sabbath.

 

[Bob S]

LGW wrote:

I am also wondering why you are making straw man arguments to Bob Ryan? Who has ever said to you that we are saved by keeping the Law? If no one has said this then why bring it up? I hope this clears up your confusion.

Ellen White your revered prophet.

 

[Bob S]

It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." {6T 356.4}

Ellen's writings according to the SDA church are equal to scripture. So, unless someone can tell us differently Ellen's writings ae hawking salvation by works of the law.

 

[klutedavid]

Hello Bob.

I am still waiting for some one to explain what this verse means, then you quoted it.

Genesis 26:5 " Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws.”

So what laws is this verse talking about?

I am of the opinion that the law came much later.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Hello Bob.

I am still waiting for some one to explain what this verse means, then you quoted it.

So what laws is this verse talking about?

I am of the opinion that the law came much later.

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godliness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness. Since what may be known about God is plain to them. For since the creation of the world Gods invisible qualities, his eternal power, and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse
Rom1:18-20

Hi
I take the above to mean since creation, people instinctively knew right from wrong in God's sight. So we can say they knew of his decrees( as in the verses you mentioned) . Though as you say, the written law, that moses told the people would be their righteousness if they obeyed, did not come until later, given at Sanai( deut6:25)
If people didn't instinctively know how they should live in God's sight, they would have an excuse for wickedness wouldnt they? Paul says they did not.

And Adam and Eve did eat from the tree of knowledge didn't they, giving them understanding of good and evil( gen2:17) so couldn't we say that would be knowing Gods statutes and laws in a sense?
Just my simple observations.
I'm not a scholar or theologian lol
In my view, we can't take literally every verse in the Bible, as Christians would be blind if they did, having to pluck out their eyes if( or when) they caused them to sin in thought, word or deed

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

I am still waiting for some one to explain what this verse means, then you quoted it.

Genesis 26:5 " Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws.”

So what laws is this verse talking about?

I am of the opinion that the law came much later.

Those who think that sin is NOT "transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 and that there was no LAW before it was "written on stone" -- need to avoid that text.

Genesis 13:13 "Now the men of Sodom were wicked exceedingly and sinners against the Lord."

Genesis 4:7
If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.”

"sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

And how "nice" that even the pro-Sunday scholars accept this glaringly obvious Bible detail about the LAW (including the TEN Commandments) given to mankind BEFORE it was written on stone.

This easy and obvious Bible detail - obvious to scholars on BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate -- ends up being where many people get stuck and can't figure out what the Bible is saying.

 

[BobRyan]

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godliness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness. Since what may be known about God is plain to them. For since the creation of the world Gods invisible qualities, his eternal power, and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse
Rom1:18-20

Hi
I take the above to mean since creation, people instinctively knew right from wrong in God's sight.

Adam and Eve had a lot of direct communication with God - including the Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:11 fact.

 

[listed]

LGW wrote:

Ellen White your revered prophet.

I often wonder who some people really are in this forum.

 

[listed]

Those who think that sin is NOT "transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 and that there was no LAW before it was "written on stone" -- need to avoid that text.

Genesis 13:13 "Now the men of Sodom were wicked exceedingly and sinners against the Lord."

Genesis 4:7
If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.”

"sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

And how "nice" that even the pro-Sunday scholars accept this glaringly obvious Bible detail about the LAW (including the TEN Commandments) given to mankind BEFORE it was written on stone.

This easy and obvious Bible detail - obvious to scholars on BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate -- ends up being where many people get stuck and can't figure out what the Bible is saying.

The real deal is none of your referenced pro-Sunday scholars promote or practice the 7th day sabbath. You're dong nothing more than taking them out of context by applying your meaning to selected quotes.

 

[listed]

Adam and Eve had a lot of direct communication with God - including the Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:11 fact.

Adam and Eve had no concept of Exodus.

 

[listed]

Basically, the Christian in their heart doesn't want to lie, commit adultery, steal, murder, covet, etc, that is what is meant by the law being placed in their heart. The flesh does want to sin, for the flesh didn't get born again. Hence the struggle of man, spirit against flesh

Excellent point about being born again.

 

[listed]

nonsense.

Genesis 26:5 " Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws.”

Glaringly obvious Bible detail that even your pro-sunday scholars admit to when it comes to the TEN Commandments - they existed before being "Written on stone".

Obviously.

(When BOTH sides admit to the same glaringly obvious Bible detail - well... it just does not get any easier than that!)

Yes Deuteronomy 5 is nonsense to you.

 

[listed]

Hi Doveaman,

How are you today? Good I hope?

You are saying my posts are confusing to you in regards to Col 2 because I have not described the difference between "Holy days and Sabbath(s) referred to in Col 2:16? My posts are not confusing at all. because if you read my first post 325 these have already been described here. So maybe the confusion is on your side because you did not read the post.

Here let me cut and paste it again for you.

Holy days


Sabbath(s)


So clearly there is no confusion on my part if I have already provided you the answer. It looks like the confusion is with you my friend. If we are breaking God's commandments to follow man made traditions we are not following Jesus (Mark 7:5-13). God is calling us to follow Jesus according to His Word (Matt 4:4). If we do not follow God according to His Words then the Word of God teaches that these people are "Unbelievers" and unbelievers have no part in the Kingdom of Heaven. My prayer is that you may receive all of God's Word and follow Jesus in Spirit and in Truth (John 4:24).

I am also wondering why you are making straw man arguments to Bob Ryan? Who has ever said to you that we are saved by keeping the Law? If no one has said this then why bring it up? I hope this clears up your confusion.

In Christ always!

Your post causes me great wonder as to who you and your friend really are.

 

[klutedavid]

Hello Bob.

Genesis 26:5
Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws.

Galatians 3:17
What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.

So which law is Paul referring to in Galatians 3:17?

If Abraham had the entire law before Sinai, how can the law arrive later?

Those who think that sin is NOT "transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 and that there was no LAW before it was "written on stone" -- need to avoid that text.

John 15:22
If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin.

John 15:24
If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would not have sin; but now they have both seen and hated Me and My Father as well.

You need to explain what Jesus said, Bob, how can they have an excuse for their sin?

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

Genesis 26:5
Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws.

Galatians 3:17
What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.

The law was 'written' - came in "written form" at Sinai.

How is that confusing??