Gods Sabbath Day (2)

Katydid · Mar 2, 2005

your deduction is false

WOW!!! BRETHREN, I believe we have found something we agree on.

Cliff, we all have the same standing in salvation once we enter in with Christ, but we know for a fact that once we become saved, we do not lose our gender. All that verse is saying is that God doesn't judge our salvation on what gender, social status, or nationality we are. Basically he is an equal opportunity God.

A Brethren IN CHRIST · Mar 2, 2005

Katydid said:
They weren't for the righteous, are you calling yourself righteous, because last time I checked we are all sinners.

God does I do not.

romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justified the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

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We only know that we are sinners because of the law. The law was made to show all of us sinners that we need forgiveness. BUT.. the true question, is what do we do with the salvation given. Continue to walk in sin? I don't think so, I believe we need to strive to rid ourselves of sin, even knowing that we can never be perfect. My children KNOW that they will never be perfect children, but for the most part they try to abide by the rules I lay down. I KNOW that they will never be perfect and show mercy in my judgement of them.

1 john 1:8 if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

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To tell someone that their salvation is reliant upon complete obedience, and that loss of salvation comes with disobedience, is a yoke that noone can bear. Do not obey the law if you believe that this is what brings salvation, but obey the law to be a better child of God, to become more Christlike. Isn't that our goal?

They were telling them that they had to be circumcised to be children of God.

third covenant

Gen 17:9 And God said unto Abraham, thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and they seed [plural] after thee in their generations.

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and they seed after thee; every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be a token of the covenant between me and you. .........

13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is brought with my money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

14 And the uncircumised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant

this was to the jews since the seed is plural ....
church promise is gen 22:17 since the seed is singular...Gal 3:15-16,29, luke 1:68-72

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This is false. They also added all their interpretations of the law. Basically, the legalistic form of "you can't even save a life on Sabbath" this was not God's rule, but the Pharisees law. They added, as they do now, to the law that God had originally put in place.

Matt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin[little things] and have ommitted the wiether matters of the law, judgement, mercy and faith: these ought to be done, and not to leave the other's undone.

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I do not, nor will I ever, preach that obedience to the law gains salvation, to say such a thing would be a lie.

its by faith ...romans 4:6 Even as David also decribed the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works.

and since King David is saved the adulter, murder that He is

it is about God....

2 cor 5:21 For Father hath made Christ to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made to be God's righteousness of God in Him.

this goes directly to 1 cor 12:12-13

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But, I do say that to become a better child of God, we need to strive to live according to His word, His WHOLE word. To become Christlike. And, In case you didn't know, Christ followed the law.

He was God the perfect sacrifice.....

Katydid · Mar 2, 2005

Sorry Brethren, I didn't follow that last post of yours. I think the way you broke it down confused me. (Sorry, I can be a bit slow with some things.) Could you possibly reword it so that I can understand your point better?

A Brethren IN CHRIST · Mar 2, 2005

ask question please

huge post to answer too.

Katydid · Mar 2, 2005

Well, you put alot of scriptures with no comments on them.

So do you agree, that we need the law. Do you agree that we should strive to follow the law to the best of our ability, to grow and learn more about how we are supposed to live?

Quote:

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third covenant

Gen 17:9 And God said unto Abraham, thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and they seed [plural] after thee in their generations.

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and they seed after thee; every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be a token of the covenant between me and you. .........

13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is brought with my money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

14 And the uncircumised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant

this was to the jews since the seed is plural ....
church promise is gen 22:17 since the seed is singular...Gal 3:15-16,29, luke 1:68-72

I agree, we are not held captive by the law, we will not be sent to hell for not following every letter of it, BUT... should we not TRY to live as God thought we should. Should we not attempt to become more Christlike.

He was God the perfect sacrifice.....

Yes he was, and he followed every letter of the law, while showing us how to live it with mercy and love, rather than obligation. He became the final sin sacrifice. Which means that we no longer need to fear every sin and keep a list of the sacrifices that we need to make. I still don't see this as saying " don't even try to live a Godly life, it doesn't matter". Instead it tells us that we are to do this out of love, out of a desire to be pleasing, not an obligation. It is the ultimate test, OK now the threat of punishment is out of the way, how are you going to choose to live your life. Are you going to rebel against everything that God laid down, or are you going to follow the lifestyle that he taught you.

A Brethren IN CHRIST · Mar 2, 2005

1 cor 5:5 to deliver such as one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

one cannot lose there salvation ...if saved by bad works

Katydid · Mar 2, 2005

one cannot lose there salvation ...if saved by bad works

Have I not said it clearly enough. You can ignore every aspect of the law and still be saved, BUT...could you honestly kill someone, and live with yourself knowing you took advantage of your salvation. Most people don't kill others even when they know that they can be forgiven, because we try to be Christ like, we try to live a Godly life. Well, how is eating pork any different, or worshipping on Sabbath any different, when all sins are sins, regardless of how we percieve them?

Cliff2 · Mar 2, 2005

Well, how is eating pork any different, or worshipping on Sabbath any different, when all sins are sins, regardless of how we percieve them?

This is where the problem starts, one commandment that God has given that many do not like is the fourth commandment.

Most will wiggle and squirm when the Bible says to keep the 7th day holy. The rest of them most will agree are OK, but not the fourth and that is after God says that He does not change.

Oblio · Mar 2, 2005

Well, how is eating pork any different, or worshipping on Sabbath any different, when all sins are sins, regardless of how we percieve them?

Well, for one, eating pork is not a sin, neither is working on Saturday ...

Katydid · Mar 2, 2005

Well, for one, eating pork is not a sin, neither is working on Saturday

OK, please stay with me here, and then explain, not using church tradition to do so.

1. God wrote the law
2. God never changes
3. Jesus is God

therefore we can say

1. Jesus wrote the law
2. Jesus never changes

It is the whole if a=b and b=c then a=c

Ok now here we go. With the established fact that obedience doesn't lead to salvation, lets not bring salvation into the argument against this, as I believe that nothing we do gains or loses our salvation except belief in Jesus.

OK, now, we know our sins because the law shows them to us. Therefore, anything in the law that we don't abide by is sin. I don't expect people to immediately follow every letter of the law, I can't do that. But, shouldn't we strive to follow the law better each day. And since law is such a bad word to most, lets change that to God's way. Should we try to follow God's way, walk in the footsteps of Christ, better and better every day?

Philip · Mar 2, 2005

Katydid said:
OK, please stay with me here, and then explain, not using church tradition to do so.

1. God wrote the law
2. God never changes
3. Jesus is God

therefore we can say

1. Jesus wrote the law
2. Jesus never changes

It is the whole if a=b and b=c then a=c

Your logic is flawed. If it were correct, then the following arguement would also be valid.

1. God died on the cross.
2. The Father is God.

therefore,

The Father died on the cross.

Note that I am not claiming that your conclusions are necessarily wrong. However, they do not follow logically from your premises.

Katydid · Mar 2, 2005

Well, see, if Jesus is truly 100% God, then God did die on the cross. But, I see what you are saying.

Philip · Mar 2, 2005

I agree that God did die on the cross. However, it is wrong to conclude that the Father did.

Katydid · Mar 2, 2005

Well, considering that "the Father" is like Clark Kent and Superman, you know two identities of the same person, in a sense he did, but then again.....

AAAAAWWWWWW this is the whole trinity thing, and I get all twisted around and confused in my head when I try to figure that whole thing out.

Lotar · Mar 2, 2005

Katydid said:
Well, considering that "the Father" is like Clark Kent and Superman, you know two identities of the same person, in a sense he did, but then again.....

AAAAAWWWWWW this is the whole trinity thing, and I get all twisted around and confused in my head when I try to figure that whole thing out.

That's called Modalism. God is not like Superman, wearing different identities, He is 3 distict persons. The Son is 100% God, the Father is 100% God and the Holy Spirit is 100% God, but the Son is not the Father or the Holy Spirit, The Father is not the Son or Holy Spirit, etc.

A Brethren IN CHRIST · Mar 2, 2005

Katydid said:
Have I not said it clearly enough. You can ignore every aspect of the law and still be saved, BUT...could you honestly kill someone, and live with yourself knowing you took advantage of your salvation. Most people don't kill others even when they know that they can be forgiven, because we try to be Christ like, we try to live a Godly life. Well, how is eating pork any different, or worshipping on Sabbath any different, when all sins are sins, regardless of how we percieve them?

did not King David do this very thing yet still saved

Oblio · Mar 2, 2005

And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
(Acts 10:10-15 KJV)

And God said:

Pork Fat Rules !

AmariJah · Mar 2, 2005

And God said:

Pork Fat Rules !

Dude that is really funny!

Katydid · Mar 3, 2005

And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
(Acts 10:10-15 KJV)

And yet, in verse 16 he didn't go down and kill and eat a pig. No, as I recall, he went out and preached to a gentile, which up until that point was considered unclean. CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT!!!!

Katydid · Mar 3, 2005

did not King David do this very thing yet still saved

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I don't know how to put this any clearer. THIS IS NOT A SALVATION ISSUE!! SALVATION IS NOT AT STAKE!!! Yes, King David was still saved, as would you be, BUT IS IT THE RIGHT THING TO DO!!!

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