Gods perfect?

[Guyfoo]

It is meant to be "God's perfect" i forgot the comma.(Well i know i am not perfect)
Anyway, Is he really, or just a bit indecisive. It seems to be he can't make up his mind. I mean you would think the man who created the earth would know what order he did it in:


Here is the order in the first (Genesis 1), the Priestly tradition:
Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!)
Day 3: Plants
Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.)
Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time)
Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did)
Note that there are "days," "evenings," and "mornings" before the Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as "Elohim," which is a plural, thus the literal translation, "the Gods." In this tale, the Gods seem satisfied with what they have done, saying after each step that "it was good."


The second one (Genesis 2), the Yahwist tradition, goes:
Earth and heavens (misty)
Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth)
Plants
Animals
Eve, the first woman (from Adam's rib)

Also you would think you would know what is own sons last words were, but no he is not sure on that either:

Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."

Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."


John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."



Also you think god would know if he was a god of peace or a god of war:
EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.



These are just three of many contradictions in the bible. Oh and this is not my work either, i haven't read the bible enough to quote it but enough to know that there are contradictions in the bible so i guess it is only fair i put up the site from where i got the quotes.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html#good_to_all

And now you can read loads more yey (not that most of you will)

 

[ShieldOFaith]

It is meant to be "God's perfect" i forgot the comma.(Well i know i am not perfect)
Anyway, Is he really, or just a bit indecisive. It seems to be he can't make up his mind. I mean you would think the man who created the earth would know what order he did it in:


Here is the order in the first (Genesis 1), the Priestly tradition:
Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!)
Day 3: Plants
Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.)
Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time)
Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did)
Note that there are "days," "evenings," and "mornings" before the Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as "Elohim," which is a plural, thus the literal translation, "the Gods." In this tale, the Gods seem satisfied with what they have done, saying after each step that "it was good."


The second one (Genesis 2), the Yahwist tradition, goes:
Earth and heavens (misty)
Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth)
Plants
Animals
Eve, the first woman (from Adam's rib)

Also you would think you would know what is own sons last words were, but no he is not sure on that either:

Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."

Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."


John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."



Also you think god would know if he was a god of peace or a god of war:
EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.



These are just three of many contradictions in the bible. Oh and this is not my work either, i haven't read the bible enough to quote it but enough to know that there are contradictions in the bible so i guess it is only fair i put up the site from where i got the quotes.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html#good_to_all

And now you can read loads more yey (not that most of you will)

<staff edit>

Buy a book called "WHEN CRITICS ASK" By Dr. Norman Geisler and Professor Thomas Howe. Then read it very carefully. The majority of your questions will be answered.

The only thing I will comment on is God being a God of war.

You do realize that you can be both a GOD of war and a GOD of peace if you are GOD? You do realize that, right???

He is both. It is not a contradiction. He is peaceful, and when necessary He brings war--AND WINS!!! He is undefeated in battle!

There are many men of peace that when pushed into the circumstance, will declare war on you and fight.

God is at peace within Himself. Then there are times (in this time space continuum where we live) He will declare war and layeth down the smack!

He is still a God of peace. However, He is also a God of war. Not difficult to understand.

SOLI DEO GLORIA.

 

[Guyfoo]

Weak. You can't even use your own attack? Come on...

Buy a book called "WHEN CRITICS ASK" By Dr. Norman Geisler and Professor Thomas Howe. Then read it very carefully. The majority of your questions will be answered.

Lets be honest here, i am not going to buy that book

The only thing I will comment on is God being a God of war.

You do realize that you can be both a GOD of war and a GOD of peace if you are GOD? You do realize that, right???

He is both. It is not a contradiction. He is peaceful, and when necessary He brings war--AND WINS!!! He is undefeated in battle!

There are many men of peace that when pushed into the circumstance, will declare war on you and fight. Duh?

God is at peace within Himself. Then there are times (in this time space continuum where we live) He will declare war and layeth down the smack!

He is still a God of peace. However, He is also a God of war. Not difficult to understand.

SOLI DEO GLORIA.

Are you only commenting this one because you can't explain the other 2 or what? But if you can give me a reasonable explanation to the other 2 then i might actually consider buying that book....

As for your argument, yes an easy going person can get angry but you wouldn't that person is easy going and an angry person , It doesn't make sense let alone is it perfect. They are two opposite things. So to say god is a man of war and a man of peace just doesn't make sense to me but maybe i am just to black and white?

Ohh and by the way, weak!! using someone elses book as your defense? come on.......

 

[UncleHermit]

There are many men of peace that when pushed into the circumstance, will declare war on you and fight. Duh?

I'm having a hard time imagining how God could be "pushed into the circumstance" of declaring war on His own creation.

 

[ebia]

It is meant to be "God's perfect" i forgot the comma.(Well i know i am not perfect)
Anyway, Is he really, or just a bit indecisive. It seems to be he can't make up his mind. I mean you would think the man who created the earth would know what order he did it in:

I'm sure he does. However, since the purpose of Genesis is not to communicate the exact order of creation he allowed the people who wrote Genesis to write something that communicates what needed to be communicated without insisting on accuracy in irrelevent details that might interfere with their independence or the ability of the text to communicate it's intended stuff.

Also you would think you would know what is own sons last words were, but no he is not sure on that either:

Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."

Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."


John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

See above.

The bible is written by people, uniquely inspired by God, to write theological accounts. It is not written by God it is not primarily there to be factually precise.

These are just three of many contradictions in the bible. Oh and this is not my work either, i haven't read the bible enough to quote it but enough to know that there are contradictions in the bible so i guess it is only fair i put up the site from where i got the quotes.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html#good_to_all

And now you can read loads more yey (not that most of you will)

Yeh - it doesn't make a great recipe for Black Forest Gateaux either. But treat it as what it is and is is unrivalled.

 

[WarEagle]

It is meant to be "God's perfect" i forgot the comma.(Well i know i am not perfect)
Anyway, Is he really, or just a bit indecisive. It seems to be he can't make up his mind. I mean you would think the man who created the earth would know what order he did it in:


Here is the order in the first (Genesis 1), the Priestly tradition:
Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!)
Day 3: Plants
Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.)
Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time)
Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did)
Note that there are "days," "evenings," and "mornings" before the Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as "Elohim," which is a plural, thus the literal translation, "the Gods." In this tale, the Gods seem satisfied with what they have done, saying after each step that "it was good."


The second one (Genesis 2), the Yahwist tradition, goes:
Earth and heavens (misty)
Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth)
Plants
Animals
Eve, the first woman (from Adam's rib)

So what is the contradiction?

The second passage only describes the creation, not the order it was created in.

This morning, I drove to town to drop some things off at the Goodwill store. Then I went to Staples to pick up some ink for my printer.

If I tell one person that I went to Staples and to Goodwill, and another person I went to Goodwill and to Staples, there's no contradiction.

Now, if I tell one person I went to Goodwill and then I went to Staples, and tell another person that I went to Staples and then I went to Goodwill, that would be a contradiction.

So you got that one wrong.

Also you would think you would know what is own sons last words were, but no he is not sure on that either:

Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."

Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."


John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

The Gospels record Jesus saying each of these. They just aren't in the same order and they're not given the same signifigance because they're written to different audiences.

Strike two.

Also you think god would know if he was a god of peace or a god of war:
EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

Two different things.

One is talking about political, physical warfare. The other is talking about personal, spiritual peace.

Strike three. You're out.

 

[Guyfoo]

So what is the contradiction?

The second passage only describes the creation, not the order it was created in.

This morning, I drove to town to drop some things off at the Goodwill store. Then I went to Staples to pick up some ink for my printer.

If I tell one person that I went to Staples and to Goodwill, and another person I went to Goodwill and to Staples, there's no contradiction.

Now, if I tell one person I went to Goodwill and then I went to Staples, and tell another person that I went to Staples and then I went to Goodwill, that would be a contradiction.

So you got that one wrong.

Nope, i didn't. Maybe you should read genesis 2. It goes something like
God made the heavens and the earth and then made man out of the dust on the ground. Then he created the garden of Eden and put plants in there and put man in there to look after it. Then god taught man shouldn't be alone so he created beast for him and Adam gave them names or something so god put him in a deep sleep took one of his ribs and created eve. Now that is a very dumb downed version of what i can vaguely remember ( i lost my bible a long time ago) So no genesis 2 is not a random list in any order it actually has a specific order, different from genesis 1. I suggest you read it.

The Gospels record Jesus saying each of these. They just aren't in the same order and they're not given the same signifigance because they're written to different audiences.

Strike two.

So we agree, the gospel is saying all three of these. Now correct me if i am wrong but Jesus only ascended once right? So why is he recorded saying three very different things, fair enough if they were similar but they are not. If the bible really is the word of god you think they would be at least a little similar. And surly the last words of god before he ascended into heaven would be significant. (It's kind of a big deal)
And sorry but i am not actually quite sure what you were trying to say.

Two different things.

One is talking about political, physical warfare. The other is talking about personal, spiritual peace.

Strike three. You're out.

Thats actually a good explanation. That i can except.

Oh by the way, whats with the strike three, your out thing?

 

[WarEagle]

Nope, i didn't.

Actually, you did.

To order things differently is not a contradiction. To order one thing to the exclusion of the specific order of the other is a contradiction, but that isn't what happened here.

Now that is a very dumb downed version of what i can vaguely remember ( i lost my bible a long time ago)

And therein lies the problem.

You're going on what you vaguely remember from "a long time ago" and I'm going by what I've studied daily for the past twenty years.

So we agree, the gospel is saying all three of these. Now correct me if i am wrong but Jesus only ascended once right? So why is he recorded saying three very different things, fair enough if they were similar but they are not. If the bible really is the word of god you think they would be at least a little similar. And surly the last words of god before he ascended into heaven would be significant. (It's kind of a big deal)
And sorry but i am not actually quite sure what you were trying to say.

Last night, I went to a party at my sisters' house.

Before I left, I said "The Phillies are going to be pretty strong next year in spite of Charlie Manuel", "'Tin Man' was a good miniseries", and "We don't let the children watch 'Torchwood'".

So, which of these statements contradicted the other?

Oh by the way, whats with the strike three, your out thing?

It's an expression in baseball.

In baseball, a batter gets three opportunities to hit the ball. Every time a batter tries to hit the ball and misses, that's call a strike.

When the batter gets three strikes, he is retired and must go back to the bench to wait for the end of the inning or for his turn in the batting rotation to come around again.

You made three claims and each of them were wrong. In a sense, it was like a batter trying three times to hit the ball, but missing all three attempts.

Thus, "strike three, you're out".

 

[allhart]

It is meant to be "God's perfect" i forgot the comma.(Well i know i am not perfect)
Anyway, Is he really, or just a bit indecisive. It seems to be he can't make up his mind. I mean you would think the man who created the earth would know what order he did it in:


Here is the order in the first (Genesis 1), the Priestly tradition:
Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!)
Day 3: Plants
Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.)
Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time)
Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did)
Note that there are "days," "evenings," and "mornings" before the Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as "Elohim," which is a plural, thus the literal translation, "the Gods." In this tale, the Gods seem satisfied with what they have done, saying after each step that "it was good."


The second one (Genesis 2), the Yahwist tradition, goes:
Earth and heavens (misty)
Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth)
Plants
Animals
Eve, the first woman (from Adam's rib)

Also you would think you would know what is own sons last words were, but no he is not sure on that either:

Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."

Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."


John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."



Also you think god would know if he was a god of peace or a god of war:
EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.



These are just three of many contradictions in the bible. Oh and this is not my work either, i haven't read the bible enough to quote it but enough to know that there are contradictions in the bible so i guess it is only fair i put up the site from where i got the quotes.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html#good_to_all

And now you can read loads more yey (not that most of you will)

Let see here the earth is on a 23.5 degree tilt one degree one way or the other no life on earth. Second, h20 is between 19 and 21% degree in or out no life on earth. Third, salt water is 3.4% one degree one way or the other life on your planet earth would not exist and there is a lot more like this! Can you explain why? How there isn't a God. You have faith in your existence that is sustained How? What ever it maybe you have more faith than me . Don't you think?

 

[Guyfoo]

Actually, you did.

To order things differently is not a contradiction. To order one thing to the exclusion of the specific order of the other is a contradiction, but that isn't what happened here.



And therein lies the problem.

You're going on what you vaguely remember from "a long time ago" and I'm going by what I've studied daily for the past twenty years.

Ok , i think you are missing my point, This post isn't about the technical meaning of the word contradiction....i can get a dictionary for that.
What i am saying is if you believe the bible is the whole word of god then how do explain Genesis 1 and genesis 2 both explain the creation of the universe, giving two different accounts on how it happened, you think god would know after all he created it right?
But it comes across as if he doesn't really know himself or the bible is actually not the word of all powerful, all knowing, and all perfect god.
Oh and just to keep you happy i googled genesis 2 and read over it, and yeah i was pretty much accurate. I am proud actually! But just for your own peace of mind here is the link....

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis 2&version=9;

Last night, I went to a party at my sisters' house.

Before I left, I said "The Phillies are going to be pretty strong next year in spite of Charlie Manuel", "'Tin Man' was a good miniseries", and "We don't let the children watch 'Torchwood'".

So, which of these statements contradicted the other?

None of them, if you dropped dead at that moment, or ascended into heaven then they would be your last words, probably not written on your gravestone but your last words none the less.

Now, there are three different versions of what Jesus said as his last words, but if the bible is really the word of an all powerful, all knowing, all perfect god you think that god would know what his sons last words were, right?

Just saying, when you read the bible god comes across a little indecisive as to what happened when it comes to certain events.

It's an expression in baseball.

In baseball, a batter gets three opportunities to hit the ball. Every time a batter tries to hit the ball and misses, that's call a strike.

When the batter gets three strikes, he is retired and must go back to the bench to wait for the end of the inning or for his turn in the batting rotation to come around again.

You made three claims and each of them were wrong. In a sense, it was like a batter trying three times to hit the ball, but missing all three attempts.

Thus, "strike three, you're out".

Yeah we don't have baseball in Ireland but have been to a baseball match....went on for what seemed like hours but yeah i knew what the strike three thing was in terms of baseball but i just taught it was a little odd to be doing it on a forum discussion about the bible.

And to say i was wrong three times is a matter of opinion.

 

[Guyfoo]

Let see here the earth is on a 23.5 degree tilt one degree one way or the other no life on earth. Second, h20 is between 19 and 21% degree in or out no life on earth. Third, salt water is 3.4% one degree one way or the other life on your planet earth would not exist and there is a lot more like this! Can you explain why? How there isn't a God. You have faith in your existence that is sustained How? What ever it maybe you have more faith than me . Don't you think?

The universe is so vast there is bound to be at least one planet that has the right requirements for life, which happens to be us. But this is not what the post is about. It is about the bible and how it can be the word of god when one part of the bible gives one version of what happened in a certain event and another part gives a different version of what happened in the same event, such as the creation of the universe.

 

[IzzyPop]

Let see here the earth is on a 23.5 degree tilt one degree one way or the other no life on earth. Second, h20 is between 19 and 21% degree in or out no life on earth. Third, salt water is 3.4% one degree one way or the other life on your planet earth would not exist and there is a lot more like this! Can you explain why? How there isn't a God. You have faith in your existence that is sustained How? What ever it maybe you have more faith than me . Don't you think?

If you amend the statement to 'life as we currently know it' you would be correct. But as it is you are running into the same problem we atheists have when discussing god. It's awful hard to prove a negative.

 

[Merlin]

You misunderstand what is actually written in Genesis I & II.
No contradiction at all. Just a misunderstanding of what is actually said.

 

[WarEagle]

Ok , i think you are missing my point, This post isn't about the technical meaning of the word contradiction....i can get a dictionary for that.
What i am saying is if you believe the bible is the whole word of god then how do explain Genesis 1 and genesis 2 both explain the creation of the universe, giving two different accounts on how it happened, you think god would know after all he created it right?

They don't give two different accounts. They just order the creation differently.

None of them

Why not? If it's contradictory when Jesus does it, then why isn't it contradictory when I do it?

Now, there are three different versions of what Jesus said as his last words

But again, you're reading you're own assumptions into the text.

It never says, "Jesus said 'A' but not 'B' or 'B' but not 'C'". Jesus made a long soliloquy before He died and the authors are simply citing the portion of His statement that is most relevant to their audience.

but if the bible is really the word of an all powerful, all knowing, all perfect god you think that god would know what his sons last words were, right?

He does know and His word records some of them for us to know, too.

Just saying, when you read the bible god comes across a little indecisive as to what happened when it comes to certain events.

Only when someone who admits that he's going on vague memories from several years ago.

I study it daily and I've never found anything to indicate anything other than that it is internally consistent from front to back.

Yeah we don't have baseball in Ireland

Actually, you do.

I spent several summers of my childhood in Ireland with family there and am very active in the Irish-American community here in the US so I'm pretty familiar with basball in Ireland. I received an invitation to come and try out there, but I never took it.

Outside of Asia, Italy, Ireland, and Australia have the biggest amatuer baseball clubs.

Four years ago, we even hosted an Irish baseball team here to play a couple of exhibition games to drum up support for Irish baseball.

In my sophomore year of college, I was an invitee of the Pittsburgh Pirates to their development camp (a way for the teams to scout non-draftees and I remember several Euopean players there, including a couple of Irish and English guys). In addition, the Phillies are invested heavily in European baseball and even had an Italian catcher a couple of years ago, but that's another story.

Don't sell Irish baseball short. There's a very small but enthusiastic baseball community there.

Sorry for getting off the subject like that, but baseball is about the only other thing I take as seriously as the Gospel.

And to say i was wrong three times is a matter of opinion.

Based on the fact that none of what you say lines up with scripture, it is my opinion that you're wrong.

 

[JGG]

Let see here the earth is on a 23.5 degree tilt one degree one way or the other no life on earth. Second, h20 is between 19 and 21% degree in or out no life on earth. Third, salt water is 3.4% one degree one way or the other life on your planet earth would not exist and there is a lot more like this! Can you explain why? How there isn't a God. You have faith in your existence that is sustained How? What ever it maybe you have more faith than me . Don't you think?

Not that I can decipher most of the "facts" you're throwing at us (19-21% of what?), but...

Let us say for certain that there are enough stars out there that we cannot count them all (maybe 3 million billion?). Each of those stars is a source of energy to a potential planet. If each of those planets is different, the universe has plenty of opportunities to get it right, or to allow life to develop in a way we can't yet imagine. That we are here to talk about it only means that we are the result of it happening.

No God is necessary. That life did not occur on those planets which could never sustain life is about as amazing as the fact that I found my car keys in the place where I left them.

Besides, suggesting that the conditions are "just right" to accomodate life, suggests that God had no control over the conditions for life, and had to form us "just so" to survive in a reality greater than God. God should have been able to create us without water, or without sunlight, or without energy, or under no particular conditions at all. That the conditions are "just right" simply serves to limit God.

 

[Guyfoo]

They don't give two different accounts. They just order the creation differently.

Yeah? Which is two different accounts of how it happened. If the bible is the word of god, and he is going to mention twice in the bible how he created the Universe then the least you would expect is for them to be the same.

Why not? If it's contradictory when Jesus does it, then why isn't it contradictory when I do it?

Because its not the same situation, it would be the same if say one person said your last words were "The Phillies are going to be pretty strong next year in spite of Charlie Manuel", "'Tin Man' was a good miniseries", and "We don't let the children watch 'Torchwood'" and another person said your last words "was i like cheese" then it might be the same situation.

But again, you're reading you're own assumptions into the text.

It never says, "Jesus said 'A' but not 'B' or 'B' but not 'C'". Jesus made a long soliloquy before He died and the authors are simply citing the portion of His statement that is most relevant to their audience.

Now your putting your own assumptions into the text. And once again you think the bible(the word of god) would be a little more accurate on the events of the death of the son of god.

He does know and His word records some of them for us to know, too.


Only when someone who admits that he's going on vague memories from several years ago.

I study it daily and I've never found anything to indicate anything other than that it is internally consistent from front to back.

But its not, i have have just given you examples where it is not consistent and a link to a website where there are loads more. But denial is a funny thing you can almost convince yourself of anything. (trust me, i have been there)

Actually, you do.

I spent several summers of my childhood in Ireland with family there and am very active in the Irish-American community here in the US so I'm pretty familiar with basball in Ireland. I received an invitation to come and try out there, but I never took it.

Outside of Asia, Italy, Ireland, and Australia have the biggest amatuer baseball clubs.

Four years ago, we even hosted an Irish baseball team here to play a couple of exhibition games to drum up support for Irish baseball.

In my sophomore year of college, I was an invitee of the Pittsburgh Pirates to their development camp (a way for the teams to scout non-draftees and I remember several Euopean players there, including a couple of Irish and English guys). In addition, the Phillies are invested heavily in European baseball and even had an Italian catcher a couple of years ago, but that's another story.

Don't sell Irish baseball short. There's a very small but enthusiastic baseball community there.

Sorry for getting off the subject like that, but baseball is about the only other thing I take as seriously as the Gospel.

Wow, i had know idea. I mean i had heard of (and played) rounders which is like baseball but not the same. But yeah i had no idea there was Irish baseball teams.

Now i don't know about you but i fell like i am repeating myself here and we are getting no-where so on that note i am going to leave this discussion.
Its been fun tho!

 

[apsalmistspraise]

i do not think 'pushed to the circumstances' is the right words. I dont claim to be a theologian, i am not even close, but i do know that, God created. man devastated. God reinvested-through his son and now man tries to judge him for his unselfishness and his sacrifice. but hey, that is just a few people's opinion as well as my own.

 

[allhart]

The universe is so vast there is bound to be at least one planet that has the right requirements for life, which happens to be us. But this is not what the post is about. It is about the bible and how it can be the word of god when one part of the bible gives one version of what happened in a certain event and another part gives a different version of what happened in the same event, such as the creation of the universe.

The universe declares him and his majesty in all of science,mathematically and DNA . (quantum physic) basic energy! The dials that makes our existence possible just line up on there own and are maintained on there own. Funny! Nature points to something much more is going on than life just lapse into existence. The bible shows us the beginning. Everything we research points to more to God and faith. Here is a point that stumped Einstein. Light still travels 600 mile per hour at you even if you propel yourself ( if you try to run from it) For example when a car drives towards you at 20 mph and you run from it at 10mph it still is coming at you at 10mph. Not light it still comes at you at the same speed no matter how fast you travel. (600 mph) Try watching a video Rob Bell "Everything is Spiritual" .

 

[allhart]

Not that I can decipher most of the "facts" you're throwing at us (19-21% of what?), but...

Let us say for certain that there are enough stars out there that we cannot count them all (maybe 3 million billion?). Each of those stars is a source of energy to a potential planet. If each of those planets is different, the universe has plenty of opportunities to get it right, or to allow life to develop in a way we can't yet imagine. That we are here to talk about it only means that we are the result of it happening.

No God is necessary. That life did not occur on those planets which could never sustain life is about as amazing as the fact that I found my car keys in the place where I left them.

Besides, suggesting that the conditions are "just right" to accomodate life, suggests that God had no control over the conditions for life, and had to form us "just so" to survive in a reality greater than God. God should have been able to create us without water, or without sunlight, or without energy, or under no particular conditions at all. That the conditions are "just right" simply serves to limit God.

oxygen is in 19-21% for life to exist

 

[JGG]

oxygen is in 19-21% for life to exist

Oxygen is in 19-21% of water? (!?)

Besides, as I (and a few other people) pointed out, that water and oxygen exist can hardly be considered evidence of God.