God's Law vs. man's law

[Strathos]

This topic has been coming up quite often, so I'd like to give my perspective on it.

I do my best to obey God's Law in my personal life, but I disagree with trying to force it on others. In a secular nation, there are secular laws that apply to everyone, but religious laws should not apply to people who don't follow those religions. After all, isn't attempting to force God's standards on everyone sort of like playing God? We should leave it up to Him.

People will be punished for violating man's law in this life, and they will be punished for violating God's Law in the afterlife.

Now I'm not saying don't attempt to convince people to stop sinning or don't try to witness to them, but if they are clearly not listening, using the government to force it onto them isn't the right way to go about things. It's up to God to deal with.

Romans 12:19

Matthew 10:14

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

what's your take on romans 13:1-7?

 

[Strathos]

what's your take on romans 13:1-7?

It's saying we should obey the laws of the land.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

It's saying we should obey the laws of the land.

what is the duty of government in this passage?

 

[Strathos]

what is the duty of government in this passage?

To protect the good and punish evil.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Mmm I for the most part agree. We are told to obey mans laws UNLESS they interfer with Gods laws. For example I obey mans law of lets say not throwing trash on the ground because its a law that does not interfere with Gods laws. Now in the case of the baker who refused to bake a cake for a certain couple, I would have to obey Gods law of not having anything to do with the wedding ceremony. Whether baking or even just attending. Doesn't mean I can't talk or be friends with the couple, I just can't partake (as if to approve) their wedding ceremony.

Now when it comes to laws, lets say they pass one saying all religions must accept certain "lifestyled" people or be punished with fines or even jail time. Again, I that would interfere with Gods laws. So I would not accept that law and would rather go to jail then be forced to think how they want me too.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

To protect the good and punish evil.

who decides what is good and what is evil according to this passage?

 

[Strathos]

who decides what is good and what is evil according to this passage?

Those particular verses don't specifically answer that question. But I have always interpreted those passages as referring only to just governments, not something like Hitler's Germany or Stalin's Russia.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Those particular verses don't specifically answer that question. But I have always interpreted those passages as referring only to just governments, not something like Hitler's Germany or Stalin's Russia.

what does it mean for the government to be God's ministers?

 

[bhsmte]

what does it mean for the government to be God's ministers?

What do you think? Do you think the US government should concern itself with being the minister of a particular interpretation of a God?

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

What do you think? Do you think the US government should concern itself with being the minister of a particular interpretation of a God?

kthx

 

[Ken Rank]

what's your take on romans 13:1-7?

I personally do not see these verses the way most do. I think it is speaking of God's ordained, not secular rulers. I can go verse by verse and make my point but I shouldn't have to... if we are to subject ourselves to the secular rules who by definition are secular and not ruling by God's standards but rather mans... then it should be obvious who this is speaking of. Not calling for anarchy, we follow the laws of the land unless they conflict with Father's laws... but these verses are not speaking about following secular rulers.

 

[agapebondservant]

what's your take on romans 13:1-7?

I personally have gotten much out of studying how Daniel and Jeremiah acted and lived under Babylonian authority ... I believe it has much to do with timing regarding how to act or react toward World system authority. Jeremiah pled with his contemporaries not to resist Babylon and no doubt was called unpatriotic for he was in tune with the timing of God toward judgement of Jerusalem. Daniel prospered and was loved of Babylon yet did not compromise his higher calling because he too was in tune with the Voice of His Father. The bottom line for me is that The Stone Kingdom will in it's time crush the world system with a tidal wave of love irresistable ... be in tune with the hig calling and voice of God and be watchful for the timing of God.

God Bless.

 

[Soyeong]

This topic has been coming up quite often, so I'd like to give my perspective on it.

I do my best to obey God's Law in my personal life, but I disagree with trying to force it on others. In a secular nation, there are secular laws that apply to everyone, but religious laws should not apply to people who don't follow those religions. After all, isn't attempting to force God's standards on everyone sort of like playing God? We should leave it up to Him.

People will be punished for violating man's law in this life, and they will be punished for violating God's Law in the afterlife.

Now I'm not saying don't attempt to convince people to stop sinning or don't try to witness to them, but if they are clearly not listening, using the government to force it onto them isn't the right way to go about things. It's up to God to deal with.

Romans 12:19

Matthew 10:14

Nowhere in the Bible do we find any examples of people being forced to obey God's Law against their will, but we do find a number of examples of people ultimately being judged for not obeying God's Law, such as with the Flood, or with Sodom and Gomorrah. Everything in the Bible is about how to have a relationship with God and God has always desired for us to grow in this relationship with Him by seeking to walk in His ways by grace through faith and out of love, but a relationship based on faith and love must be freely chosen and can't be forced. In God's great mercy, He gives us much time to repent from walking in our own ways to turn to seeking to walk in His ways, but ultimately judgement is in store for the wicked who do not avail themselves of this great opportunity.

All Laws are an attempt to legislate morality. All legislators have opinions of what they think are morally right and wrong by which they think citizens ought to live. So requiring citizens to live by God's Law would not be different in this regard except that God has a better understanding of morality than we do because it is rooted in His attributes. Gentiles voluntarily aligned themselves with the theocratic nation of Israel, so the issue of how to govern a secular nation becomes sticky. God has given us a blueprint for how to rightly live, but it can't forced, which is why I am in favor of voluntarily living in a theocracy.

 

[Strathos]

what does it mean for the government to be God's ministers?

It means God is in control of everything ultimately.

 

[Strathos]

Nowhere in the Bible do we find any examples of people being forced to obey God's Law against their will, but we do find a number of examples of people ultimately being judged for not obeying God's Law, such as with the Flood, or with Sodom and Gomorrah. Everything in the Bible is about how to have a relationship with God and God has always desired for us to grow in this relationship with Him by seeking to walk in His ways by grace through faith and out of love, but a relationship based on faith and love must be freely chosen and can't be forced. In God's great mercy, He gives us much time to repent from walking in our own ways to turn to seeking to walk in His ways, but ultimately judgement is in store for the wicked who do not avail themselves of this great opportunity.

All Laws are an attempt to legislate morality. All legislators have opinions of what they think are morally right and wrong by which they think citizens ought to live. So requiring citizens to live by God's Law would not be different in this regard except that God has a better understanding of morality than we do because it is rooted in His attributes. Gentiles voluntarily aligned themselves with the theocratic nation of Israel, so the issue of how to govern a secular nation becomes sticky. God has given us a blueprint for how to rightly live, but it can't forced, which is why I am in favor of voluntarily living in a theocracy.

The problem is that not everyone would volunteer.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

I personally do not see these verses the way most do. I think it is speaking of God's ordained, not secular rulers. I can go verse by verse and make my point but I shouldn't have to... if we are to subject ourselves to the secular rules who by definition are secular and not ruling by God's standards but rather mans... then it should be obvious who this is speaking of. Not calling for anarchy, we follow the laws of the land unless they conflict with Father's laws... but these verses are not speaking about following secular rulers.

correct, we are not instructed to obey secular government if it causes us to sin against the law of God.

the point i'm trying to get at with my questioning is what is the duty of government according to the passage? whether our current government is obedient to that duty is another matter.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

It means God is in control of everything ultimately.

how would God being in control of government effect what they view as good and evil? what would be their standard to determine these things?

 

[football5680]

If Christians are in a position to change the laws of a state in a way that reflects the laws of God, then they should do it. Our laws already try to govern morality but it is man-made morality, while the morality of God is superior. The laws of Israel applied to the non-Jews when they were residing in the land so I don't really see a problem with it. They should not be forced to go to church or pray but they should follow the moral laws which God gave to govern a society.

 

[Strathos]

how would God being in control of government effect what they view as good and evil? what would be their standard to determine these things?

It depends on the nation and government.