GOD'S LAW AND JUDGEMENT TIME - ARE YOU READY?

[LoveGodsWord]

If you could clarify the identity of the horn and the identity of the beast.

DANIEL 7:11 [11], I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

If you could clarify who you think these beasts are and how they have their dominion taken away.

DANIEL 7:12 [12], As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

You were a SDA pastor correct? Do you not know the meaning here? If you disagree please show why and explain what you think these scriptures mean.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Do you see this appearance happening at the second coming then? That was the impression I got, but wanted to make sure.

The investigative judgement is finished before the 2nd coming. The execution of judgment is given at the 2nd coming.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Readers, please do not fear and tremble because the SDAs have presented the IJ as a truth, because the book of Hebrews tell us the real truth. Jesus is not in some compartment counting heads, he is exalted and is sitting at the right hand of the Father in the Most Holy Place:
Hebrews 1:3
who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the righthand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Hebrews 10:12
but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Hebrews 12:2
looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the righthand of the throne of God.

Hi Bob welcome here. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. But as an ex SDA who believes God's 10 commandments have been abolished what do you think will be the great standard in the judgement?

Would you like to discuss the book of Heberws in relation to the judgment and what will be judged?

What is sin?

Where in all of God's WORD does it say God's 10 Commandments have been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?

So let's talk scripture.

 

[The7thColporteur]

You were a SDA pastor correct? Do you not know the meaning here? If you disagree please show why and explain what you think these scriptures mean.

A text comes to mind:

1 John 2:19 KJB - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.​

 

[tall73]

Indeed then even with v15 Paul is making a distingtion here between suffereing as someone who does not obey the gospel (breaking God's Commandments; murderer; theif or evil doer) and suffering as a Christian or someone who believes the gospel v16 (for the cause of Christ). Then in v17 giving the reason for the pervious scriptures; For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God and if it first begins with us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

So using the scripture in v17 is indeed in context to the topic of study which is Judgement must begin with the house of God.

The Greek word 1 Peter 4:17 for Judgment is ρίμα; krima; kree'-mah; From G2917; a decision (the function or the effect, for or against [" crime" ]): - avenge, condemned, condemnation, damnation, + go to law, judgment.

This is different from receiving judgment (penalty) 2920 κρίσις; krisis; kree'-sis;
(Subjectively or objectively, for or against); by extension a tribunal ; by implication justice (specifically divine law): - accusation, condemnation, damnation, judgment.

The implication of the proceeding verses above is also the testing or trials of those who profess to follow the gospel through trials to determine if they are following God or not following God. In line with the rest of the OP showing the time of the investigative judgement and the opening of the books in Heaven ties in very nicely with the scriptures provided in Daniel and Revelations.

Please forgive me with the commentaries today. Just thought this was interesting.

Meyer's NT Commentary
ὅτι ὁ καιρὸς τοῦ ἄρξασθαι τὸ κρίμα] Luther’s translation: “it is time,” is inexact. The article before καιρός must not be overlooked; thus: “for it is the time of the beginning of the judgment, that is, in which the judgment is beginning;” ἐστί is to be supplied; the genitive is directly dependent on ὁ καιρός (cf. Luke 1:57), and not “on καιρός taken out of the subject, ὁ καιρός” (Hofmann). By κρίμα is to be understood the definite judgment (τό), that is, the final judgment, which Peter, however, here thinks of, not in its last decisive act, but in its gradual development. It begins with the Christians (Matthew 24:9 ff.) in the refining fire of affliction, 1 Peter 4:12, and is completed in the sentence of condemnation pronounced on the unbelieving world at the advent of Christ. In opposition to the apostle’s manner of expressing himself, Hofmann maintains that reference is here made only to the judgment of the unbelieving world, the beginning of which Peter recognised in the fact that God permitted it to persecute the Christians, to do unto them that which makes itself ripe for judgment(!). ἀπὸ τοῦ οἴκου τοῦ Θεοῦ] ἀπό is here pregnant: the judgment takes place first in the οἶκ. τοῦ Θεοῦ: thence it proceeds further on; with the construction ἄρχεσθαι ἀπό, cf. Acts 1:22; Acts 8:35; Acts 10:37.[259] οἶκος τοῦ Θεοῦ is the church of believers; 1 Timothy 3:15 (chap. 1 Peter 2:5, οἶκος πνευματικός).

The reason I am clarifying these things is that the text makes it pretty plain the process being talked about started then, with the persecution of Christians. It does not reference the judgment in 1844.

Yes indeed, I agree that the scripture application here can be read this way. However, this also has very nice links with 1 Peter 4:17 and the BOOK of DANIEL which links the investigative judgement to the cleansing of the Sanctuary from sin (God's people) so this is only a simple application applied here as meaning some mens sins go before hand to judgement and this judgement begins with the house of God.

But it again is not talking about 1844 here. It is simply saying you can see some folks sinning now, and others will be shown to be later.

 

[tall73]

Do you not believe the earlthy Sanctuary is a copy of the heavenly?

Yes, I do.

What is the shadow meaning of the Great day of atonement and connections with Daniel and Revelations?

The meaning of the Day of Atonement is cleansing. But more on that later. You didn't really address much of the texts regarding that. We can after dealing with the ones you did post.

 

[tall73]

A text comes to mind:

1 John 2:19 KJB - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.​

So in our conversation you accused me of being dishonest because I pointed out the meat and drink offerings were not limited to the daily, and you then said you cannot talk to me any longer.

So you will not talk to me, but apparently you can talk about me and condemn me.

You seem to take this approach with multiple people in this forum. If you think that is what God wants you to do, then I suppose you must carry on.

I just hope you don't have a Damascus experience one day and find out that some of these people, though they do not agree with you on every point, are still God's people, and you are persecuting them.

 

[tall73]

You were a SDA pastor correct? Do you not know the meaning here? If you disagree please show why and explain what you think these scriptures mean.

I can tell you the view espoused in the SDA commentaries, and most traditional Adventists. However, I have found a number of Adventists who differ on the particulars once we get to discussing. So rather than assume your position, I am just asking for your identification.

 

[tall73]

The investigative judgement is finished before the 2nd coming. The execution of judgment is given at the 2nd coming.

And I was asking in regards to those two texts, referring to appearing before the judgment seat.

When we appear before the judgment seat that happens at the second coming, correct?

Again, I am clarifying because I have found a number of views, even on this forum, in the past.

 

[The7thColporteur]

I hear a Babylonian "whine" ...

 

[Bob S]

Hi Bob welcome here.

Really? I am sure you write that with tongue in cheek.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. But

But not really.

as an ex SDA who believes God's 10 commandments have been abolished what do you think will be the great standard in the judgement?

The 10 commandments plus the book of the law were the guide for the new nation of Israel. They were the words of the Sinai covenant. Israel broke the covenant. A broken covenant has absolutely no power. It is a worthless document as far as having any power, It has become an historical fact. The Sinai covenants 10 commandments are not what 1Jn3: 4 is telling us is transgression of the law. It cannot be because it was only the guide for Israel and they, once again, broke the covenant that contained the 10 commandments.

I don't just think, I know that believing with faith that Jesus is our Savior by the shedding of His own Blood once and for ALL mankind, saving those who accept His sacrifice. By His power He once and for all fulfilled the Sinai covenant laws and introduced the new and better covenant with better promises. The great Royal Law of Love is our covenant relationship, guide and standard by which judgement will be evaluated. What did you do for the least of these? Judgement is all about having true faith and showing it by our love for all mankind. Anything else is a pure waste of time and effort. You deny what Jesus did for us when you insist that we have to observe the Sinai covenant ritual Sabbath, tithing laws and unclean meat laws. That is salvation by works.

Would you like to discuss the book of Heberws in relation to the judgment and what will be judged?

Sure

What is sin?

Turning our backs on Jesus and all He has done for all mankind. By believing we must observe Sinai covenant laws that Jesus came and fulfilled, those who believe we must be observant in order to be saved are turning their backs on Jesus.

Where in all of God's WORD does it say God's 10 Commandments have been abolished

Eph2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,

2Cor3:7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?

That is a strawman LGW. No one has ever said that God has commanded in the Bible for Christians to "keep" Sunday. Why do you keep bringing up a dead horse? Christians are free to worship anytime we please and on any day we assemble for corporate worship. We are not under the Sinai Covenant LGW. It WAS for Israel and them only and it was not a salvational covenant.

So let's talk scripture.

That is a two way communication, not just you telling me that I am a liar, and pasting the same unrelated stuff that I have to point out is not related to the subject. I am willing to try again.

Note, if you mention again that what I wrote is not true Bob or do you have any scripture Bob then I will have to consider it a waste of my time.

In my last post I quoted Jesus as saying He would be with us always even to the end. That is directly opposed to what Ellen White is wrote in her investigative judgement statement. I notice that you didn't comment on the meat of my post. Ignorance, I guess, is bliss.

 

[Bob S]

A text comes to mind:

1 John 2:19 KJB - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.​

I went out at the prompting of the Holy Spirit. Praise God I am free. Free from the legalism, free from believing I am subject to the laws of the Sinai covenant. Free to worship anytime I feel the need. Free from being told I have to do this or that from the writings of a deluded woman. Free from the false doctrine of the investigative judgement. Jn5:24 ‘Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

and Jn3:16. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

 

[tall73]

Really? I am sure you write that with tongue in cheek.

Or he could be sincere. Even if he is your enemy, how are you to treat your enemy?

 

[listed]

So let's talk scripture.

We do and you're not interested.

 

[listed]

A text comes to mind:

1 John 2:19 KJB - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.​

Are you talking about leaving the SDA church?

 

[listed]

So in our conversation you accused me of being dishonest because I pointed out the meat and drink offerings were not limited to the daily, and you then said you cannot talk to me any longer.

So you will not talk to me, but apparently you can talk about me and condemn me.

You seem to take this approach with multiple people in this forum. If you think that is what God wants you to do, then I suppose you must carry on.

I just hope you don't have a Damascus experience one day and find out that some of these people, though they do not agree with you on every point, are still God's people, and you are persecuting them.

There' nothing they won't try.

 

[listed]

I hear a Babylonian "whine" ...

So quit whining.

 

[Bob S]

Or he could be sincere. Even if he is your enemy, how are you to treat your enemy?

Another thought for you is why did you make a false claim? He is not my enemy, he is my brother in Christ. I have stated many time that I love my Adventist brothers and sisters. I did not leave the SDA church because of the people, I left because of the doctrines and what I consider a false prophet.

The reason I wrote that response is I believe he really knows I am going to challenge the thread and he really would rather I would not be posting my thoughts. I have been dealing with LGW's posts for quite some time. There is no malice intended and you needed not to have brought up your thoughts.

 

[listed]

Or he could be sincere. Even if he is your enemy, how are you to treat your enemy?

It isn't to destroy one's self.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The reason I am clarifying these things is that the text makes it pretty plain the process being talked about started then, with the persecution of Christians. It does not reference the judgment in 1844.

Ok lets' take a step back my dear friend. Firstly this OP is not a detailed study on the 2300 day year prophecy and was never intended for that purpose. It is only an introduction to judgement with the intention to move into the 2300 day/year prophecy at a latter date.