God's Intervention

[humblehumility]

How can you even define "evil" without a religion, or at least a universal philosophy, to draw the line?

The human experience and the Golden Rule, an idea that came about long before Christ.

More and more it is obvious that "evil" is not universal, but relative. It is a convenient categorization, a circular file to place unwanted people and events. Usually it is defined as "things we don't like", or, at best, "things that are bad for us."

Evil certainly is relative (to us), and the golden rule is the best shot we have at generally moving towards a more loving human race.

So this talk of "God could have made the world without evil" is like saying "God could have made the world without ugliness" or intelligence, or skill, or any other relative word. It's a non-starter.

The desire to kill somebody results from some chemical imbalance in the brain. Something sets a person off and gives them the belief that they must kill someone else. God has complete control over that "something", and evil is not relative to God (as he created the term in the first place).

 

[humblehumility]

That's right. He doesn't. He is our Judge.

Make more sense?

What did Jesus die for then?

He died for our sins, for our wrongdoings. He took those responsibilities -which would otherwise pin us in Hell- and bore them on the cross. He took those responsibilities.

Again, Jesus can't take my responsibility and I wouldn't ever want him to. I want to be responsible for anything I do. If I die and arrive before God and he says "Well, look at all the blasphemy you've committed against me, you are deserving of Hell for that." I'll say "God, I'm really sorry but I couldn't help what I observed in the world and the logical conclusions that I came to. I tried to follow you for over two decades, but eventually my reason got the better of me." If he damns me to Hell after that, then human existence is truly unfortunate for billions of people, and I would still question how an all loving God could do that.

Then I'd probably try and become best friends with the devil, maybe get myself a bedroom with air conditioning.

 

[razeontherock]

Again, Jesus can't take my responsibility and I wouldn't ever want him to. I want to be responsible for anything I do.

Well that's a good thing, because you are.

What did Jesus die for then?

I would never take this question away from someone with a trite, petty answer. I'm just pointing out to you it is visible that you don't have a grasp on it yet. (Not that any of our's is complete)

It may be that seeking on CF may help you to find out, but it would only be one part of your search ...

 

[humblehumility]

Well that's a good thing, because you are.



I would never take this question away from someone with a trite, petty answer. I'm just pointing out to you it is visible that you don't have a grasp on it yet. (Not that any of our's is complete)

It may be that seeking on CF may help you to find out, but it would only be one part of your search ...

You completely side-stepped the point of my post. Christ taking our sins (responsibilities) to the cross is Christ taking our responsibilities. If he takes them, they are no longer ours, but his.

 

[razeontherock]

No, I've dealt with it directly, for more than one post now. Jesus did NOT take anyone's responsibility away! That is not what made Him become Christ. And we are all still responsible for our actions; easily proven via countless Scriptures. Try this one:

Hebrews 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things [are] naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

 

[humblehumility]

No, I've dealt with it directly, for more than one post now. Jesus did NOT take anyone's responsibility away! That is not what made Him become Christ. And we are all still responsible for our actions; easily proven via countless Scriptures. Try this one:

Hebrews 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things [are] naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

What did Christ die for? Perhaps I'm just confused, I thought he died for our sins, because the only way to enter heaven is to be perfect and without sin. Therefore, to get to heaven, we must acknowledge that Christ died to take our sins (responsibilities) from us, allowing us into heaven.

When asking for forgiveness, we are asking that our slate be wiped clean before God.

 

[razeontherock]

Good, you have those basics. So then you are left with the idea that you are forgiven and WHOOSH! Off to heaven with you.

No changed life. No responsibility. No repentance.

Is this what Jesus taught?

Rather, it is what was embodied by "Saint" Constantine, who put off his own Baptism until as close as possible before his own death, to try to avoid being responsible as a Christian since in some sense he "wasn't a Christian" all that time he hadn't gotten his act together. This is why I deplore the reference to him as a Saint, and why many question how the Church itself may have changed during his lifetime, from what the Apostles originally established.

Deep issues here, and disturbing stuff. Where does your conscience tell you Truth lies wrt these matters?

 

[elman]

The human experience and the Golden Rule, an idea that came about long before Christ.



Evil certainly is relative (to us), and the golden rule is the best shot we have at generally moving towards a more loving human race.



The desire to kill somebody results from some chemical imbalance in the brain. Something sets a person off and gives them the belief that they must kill someone else. God has complete control over that "something", and evil is not relative to God (as he created the term in the first place).

The cruelty of man to man cannot be excused as nothing but chemical imbalance. That makes no sense.