Gods Grace vs Free Will

zhawk

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So I have it in my mind that it is only by Gods grace that I am saved and that I know him. That it his His grace that keeps me from falling away from him and His grace that allows me grow in Him.

Is it by Gods grace that I don't sin? By his grace that allows me to repent? Or is it by my sheer free will and determination that I choose to go back to God after sinning?

Like how God takes his hand of of Pharoahs heart which causes his natural state of disbelief and rebellion against God.

If it is by Gods grace that I don't sin against him then how come when I Pray "God give me the grace/strength to not sin against you today" and I most of the time still end up not having the strength. Why would he allow a sincere prayer like that to go unanswered and allow my own freewill to work against what's best for me in Him?

I sin even though I ask for his grace so that my free will will honor him. Is it His fault now that I sinned?
 
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Phil 1:21

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I know this may seem like a cookie cutter answer, and I apologize if that's the case. The Lord loves us so much that he gave us the free will to love and follow him or to tell him to go take a hike. If all He wanted was a bunch of unthinking robots he could have created them, but he created us instead. And we are all very imperfect, we all fall short of perfection. But he loved us so much that he sent Jesus, the unblemished Lamb, to take our place, to pay the death we deserve, so that we may receive His grace and salvation despite our imperfections. What an awesome and powerful gift!
 
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Dave-W

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Those 2 ideas should never be put in opposition to each other.

God gives us grace but we need to choose to walk in it and access it. Without His grace we are weak and prone to sinful behaviors. Paul wrote "I can do all things thru Christ that strengthens me." But when we decide to do something APART from Him, we usually fail miserably.
 
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Tolworth John

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You are experiencing the universal proble that Paul expressed in Romans, 'the evil I don't want to do, I do. While the good I want to do I don't do.

All I can suggest is seek to serve God, admit your many failures to him and ask yet again for forgiveness.

Take heart from the fact that God knew how you and I would constantly fail him, yet he still saved us.
 
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zhawk

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Those 2 ideas should never be put in opposition to each other.

God gives us grace but we need to choose to walk in it and access it. Without His grace we are weak and prone to sinful behaviors. Paul wrote "I can do all things thru Christ that strengthens me." But when we decide to do something APART from Him, we usually fail miserably.

Very true but if I choose to walk in it and do it well then doesn't that mean that I did something that I can boast about? "Look at how well I walked the path, compared to all the others" Is it not by Gods grace we even can walk the path let alone stand in it. I think we can't do any of it. Which is why Jesus walked for us.
 
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zhawk

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You are experiencing the universal proble that Paul expressed in Romans, 'the evil I don't want to do, I do. While the good I want to do I don't do.

All I can suggest is seek to serve God, admit your many failures to him and ask yet again for forgiveness.

Take heart from the fact that God knew how you and I would constantly fail him, yet he still saved us.
Its so tiring sometimes :( like how can I keep failing you God. Please just let me know your grace
 
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Phil 1:21

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Very true but if I choose to walk in it and do it well then doesn't that mean that I did something that I can boast about? "Look at how well I walked the path, compared to all the others" Is it not by Gods grace we even can walk the path let alone stand in it. I think we can't do any of it. Which is why Jesus walked for us.

This is a normal human response. I suspect we all possess it. When I feel this type of thing, I like to read Luke 18:9-14.

The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
 
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Dave-W

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Very true but if I choose to walk in it and do it well then doesn't that mean that I did something that I can boast about?
Only if you are lying or trying to promote your self. In either case, you just decided to blow it.
 
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So I have it in my mind that it is only by Gods grace that I am saved and that I know him. That it his His grace that keeps me from falling away from him and His grace that allows me grow in Him.

Is it by Gods grace that I don't sin? By his grace that allows me to repent? Or is it by my sheer free will and determination that I choose to go back to God after sinning?

Like how God takes his hand of of Pharoahs heart which causes his natural state of disbelief and rebellion against God.

If it is by Gods grace that I don't sin against him then how come when I Pray "God give me the grace/strength to not sin against you today" and I most of the time still end up not having the strength. Why would he allow a sincere prayer like that to go unanswered and allow my own freewill to work against what's best for me in Him?

I sin even though I ask for his grace so that my free will will honor him. Is it His fault now that I sinned?

Your salvation, did you have a choice in the matter? Yes you did, the following article gives a thorough explanation of the subject~~~> https://d3uet6ae1sqvww.cloudfront.n...ds-choice-or-ours-predestination-election.pdf .

Regarding the hardening of Pharaoh's heart, it did not cause his disbelief and rebellion against God. Pharaoh was not an innocent or godly man. He was a brutal dictator overseeing the terrible abuse and oppression of the Israelites, who likely numbered over 1.5 million people at that time. Before the first few plagues, Pharaoh hardened his own heart against letting the Israelites go. “Pharaoh's heart became hard” (Exodus 7:13, 22; 8:19). “But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart” (Exodus 8:15). “But this time also Pharaoh hardened his heart” (Exodus 8:32). Pharaoh could have spared Egypt of all the plagues if he had not hardened his own heart. God was giving Pharaoh increasingly severe warnings of the judgment that was to come. Pharaoh chose to bring judgment on himself and on his nation by hardening his own heart against God’s commands.

As a result of Pharaoh’s hard-heartedness, God hardened Pharaoh’s heart even further, allowing for the last few plagues (Exodus 9:12; 10:20, 27). Pharaoh and Egypt had brought these judgments on themselves with 400 years of slavery and mass murder. Since the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), and Pharaoh and Egypt had horribly sinned against God, it would have been just if God had completely annihilated Egypt. Therefore, God’s hardening Pharaoh’s heart was not unjust, and His bringing additional plagues against Egypt was not unjust. The plagues, as terrible as they were, actually demonstrate God’s mercy in not completely destroying Egypt, which would have been a perfectly just penalty.
 
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SkyWriting

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I know this may seem like a cookie cutter answer, and I apologize if that's the case. The Lord loves us so much that he gave us the free will to love and follow him or to tell him to go take a hike. If all He wanted was a bunch of unthinking robots he could have created them, but he created us instead. And we are all very imperfect, we all fall short of perfection. But he loved us so much that he sent Jesus, the unblemished Lamb, to take our place, to pay the death we deserve, so that we may receive His grace and salvation despite our imperfections. What an awesome and powerful gift!

Your delivery is smoother than mine.
 
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ToBeLoved

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So I have it in my mind that it is only by Gods grace that I am saved and that I know him. That it his His grace that keeps me from falling away from him and His grace that allows me grow in Him.

Is it by Gods grace that I don't sin? By his grace that allows me to repent? Or is it by my sheer free will and determination that I choose to go back to God after sinning?

Like how God takes his hand of of Pharoahs heart which causes his natural state of disbelief and rebellion against God.

If it is by Gods grace that I don't sin against him then how come when I Pray "God give me the grace/strength to not sin against you today" and I most of the time still end up not having the strength. Why would he allow a sincere prayer like that to go unanswered and allow my own freewill to work against what's best for me in Him?

I sin even though I ask for his grace so that my free will will honor him. Is it His fault now that I sinned?
I think you have a very wide view of what is God's grace.

Plainly God's main grace to us is that while we were enemies of God, God loved us so much that He sent His Son to die for us and offer us reconciliation back to Himself through His Son's shed blood on the cross.

Not only are we reconciled with God through Christ, but we are also Children of God, heirs of God. We are part of God's family, we have been adopted into God's family and we everyday have the communion with the creator of all that is and will ever be.

You and I will live eternally with God forever as sons and daughters, beloved and cherished.

That is the foundation of grace.

Now, I think that you should realize that all that is offered to us through faith in Christ and Christ is the only foundation for grace and all grace is in Him and through Him.

We are sealed in the New Covenant, in Christ's blood with the Holy Spirit (Read Romans 4, 5, 6) and it is through the Spirit that we are convicted of sin and live a life of sanctification and become sanctified or more like Christ, but His grace is that He JUSTIFIES us in Himself when we are saved in Him. Understand justification and sanctification and I think it will help a little with your questions.

Does that make sense or do you need more explanation? I can explain more if you need it.

The other thing I wanted to add is that we are not defined by sin in Christ. What I mean by that is that sin cannot remove us from God because His grace was never based on sin or lack of sin as we all sin and continue to sin. Sin definately puts a separation between man and God, but Jesus is just and faithful to forgive our sins when we come to Him in repentance. Repenting of sin is very important and is what puts us back on the right track, so to speak with God. God's Word says that when we repent, God cleanses us of all unrighteousness and after sin has been forgiven Christ casts our sin as far as the east is from the west.

What we continue to experience because of our own sin and others sin against us and the rest of mankind is natural ramifications from sin, it's consequences. But that does not mean our sin has not been forgiven, what we are dealing with is life with sin in it. That is why Christ tells us to focus on the things of the spirit or spiritual things, in Him and not of the world, because the reprucussions of sin is all over this life. It is in Him and our relationship with Him, knowing our home is in heaven and those spiritual things of God and not the life we have on this earth.

I hope that puts sin in a little more perspective for you.

That is why Christ tells us to focus on our hearts and our desires. If our desires are for earthly things, than our desires are of this world and not of the spiritual things of God. The desires of the flesh (or of the things of this world) are constantly at odds with the desires of the spirit (or the things of our real home which is heaven).
 
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...If it is by Gods grace that I don't sin against him then how come when I Pray "God give me the grace/strength to not sin against you today" and I most of the time still end up not having the strength. Why would he allow a sincere prayer like that to go unanswered and allow my own freewill to work against what's best for me in Him?

But is it really sincere, or is it just attempt to move your responsibility to God? If you really would want to quit, I think you would already have done that. I don’t know would it be good, if God would act against our will. I think we wouldn’t be the same id God would do so to us.

I sin even though I ask for his grace so that my free will will honor him. Is it His fault now that I sinned?

I don’t think sin is ever God’s fault.
 
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Ron Gurley

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Biblical examples of the true doctrine of "Free Will".

John 3...John the Baptizer about Jesus the Christ
31 “He who comes from above is above all,
he who is of the earth is from the earth and speaks of the earth.
He who comes from heaven is above all.(DEITY!)
32 What He has seen and heard, of that He testifies; and no one receives His testimony.
33 He who has RECEIVED His testimony has set his seal to this, that God is true.
34 For He whom God has SENT speaks the words of God;for He gives (GOD) the (HOLY) Spirit without measure.
35 The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand.
36 He who BELIEVES in the Son has "eternal (SPIRITUAL) life;
BUT he who does not OBEY (John 3 + Matt. 26 + etc) the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

And from the OT:

1 Chronicles 28:9...David to Soloman: The choice of "free will"
...for the Lord searches ALL hearts (spirits),
and understands EVERY intent of the thoughts (souls).
If you seek Him, He will let you find Him;
but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.


Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today,
that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse.
So CHOOSE life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,

"Free will" and SALVATION by Grace through spirit- led FAITH/BELIEF

Man's spiritual "Free Will"
...VERSUS...
" the spiritual perfect WILL of the TRI-UNE GOD"


In Genesis, Man had the "free will" to OBEY...remain in Eden...spiritually walk and talk with his UNSEEN God.
...VERSUS...
do his own thing...follow his selfish and natural tendancy to turn from God...DISOBEY

In the gospels / NT:

1."free will" BEFORE "salvation"

The spirit of Man can ACCEPT or REJECT the "drawing"/"calling" of God the Holy Spirit
...the offer of the gift of undeserved spiritual Grace and Love through spirit-led Faith.

2. "free will" AFTER "salvation"...

a. guided into spiritual "good works" /will of God
...VERSUS...
following the 1. "world and 2. the old "ways of the flesh" (sin nature) and 3. the temptations of deveil/demons

b. Be filled with / controlled by / pray and worship / walk in THE SPIRIT
...VERSUS...
grieve / quench / do not follow God the Holy SPIRIT's guidance and comfort.

God gives Man the opportunities to CHOOSE...allowing the spiritual freedom to choose...free to follow the will of God...or not.

The following concepts are difficult to understand and perhaps logically contradictory....BOTH EXIST!...

A. The Sovreignty of an all-everything perfect God
...VERSUS...
B. the spiritual exercise of the "free will" of Man (and angels!)

ACCEPT...RECEIVE...BELIEVE...etc...OR...NOT!

John 1: 12-13 (NASB)...Will of Man VS the Will of God ~= "free will"
But as many as RECEIVED Him,(spiritually born again from above)
to them He gave the right to become children of God,
even to those who BELIEVE in His name,
who were BORN,
not of blood
nor of the will of the flesh
nor of the will of man,
but (spiritually BORN) of (the Will of) God.

John 3: 11-12 Accept Jesus "testimony"..OR...NOT~= "free will"
11 Truly, truly, I say to you,
we speak of what we know
and testify of what we have seen,
and you do not ACCEPT our testimony.
12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe,
how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

John 8 : 31-38 (NASB)...Jesus: FOLLOW...OR...NOT ~= "free will"
...“If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine;
and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”...( to follow the will of God)

1 Thessalonians 2:13 Accept God's "word"...or...NOT ~= "free will"
For this reason we also constantly thank God
that when you received the "word of God" which you heard from us, you ACCEPTED it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the "word of God", which also performs its work in you who BELIEVE.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But a natural man does not ACCEPT the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him;
and he cannot understand them,
because they are spiritually appraised.(discerned)

Hebrews 10: 31;35-36(NASB)...Jesus the Christ ...or... Judgment? ~= "free will"
It is a terrifying thing (for unbelievers) to fall into the hands of the living God....
Therefore, do not throw away your confidence (in a believer's salvation),
which has a great reward.
For you have need of endurance,
so that when you have done the WILL of GOD,
you may receive what was promised. (joy!)...John 15!

1 John 2: 15-17(NASB)...John: Do Not Love the World...Love God ~= "free will"
Do not love the world nor the things in the world.
If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world,
the lust of the flesh and
the lust of the eyes and
the boastful pride of life,
is not from the Father, but is from the world.
The world is passing away, and also its lusts;
but the one who does the WILL of GOD lives forever.
 
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Ron Gurley

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Romans 12:2 (NASB)
And do not be conformed to this world (kosmos),
but be transformed by the renewing of your mind (soul?), so that you may PROVE what the "will of God" is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.(mature)
 
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