God's forknowledge and predistinaiton

[biblelesson]

Just to give some additional clarity, God predestines the circumstances in which people will enter and experience His designs, much like a programmer will write codes and set parameters to control how things will go (God is the greatest programmer). Now it is up to us to choose (by the exercise of our wills) whether or not to meet the requirements that predestine us to take part in His wonderful plan and purposes. But since He is All-knowing, He can see who will and who won't follow Him, and He does everything in His power to save them from the path of disaster by sending His word to heal (the infirmity of sin, ignorance, and rebellion) and deliver from harm (Ps. 107.20).

Amen!

 

[BBAS 64]

I think even the will to choose is given by Grace.

Agreed!


A man is not saved against his will, but he is made willing by the operation of the Holy Ghost. A mighty grace which he does not wish to resist enters into the man, disarms him, makes a new creature of him, and he is saved." - C.H Spurgeon

 

[biblelesson]

Perhaps, I would just hesitate to say that love is a "requirement" of salvation. I guess it depends on how we define it. I love God and therefore believe in Him and want to obey Him, absolutely. But I have to show love to others before I die, that's kinda dicey I think. You're probably correct, truthfully. Multiple scriptures speak about the necessity of showing love. I can think of none better than the story Jesus gave in Matthew 25:31-46. That seems like a pretty clear indication that only those who show love will be saved. Again I think I prefer to leave that kind of judgement up to the Lord, for only He can see a person's heart.

So you're probably right, but I think my personal conviction is I'll let the Lord decide on this specific question.

Hi ByThe Spirit,

There have been much discussion on the issue of faith, so I chose your post to respond to for clarity on my part.

As it relates to the many posts, the only requirement for salvation is what the Bible says. We can’t add or take away from God’s plan because He is the one who set things up. So we have to look at scripture to get the full teaching on the subject.

No part of Salvation is defined by us, which includes our “carnal faith,” and therefore, we are “given” faith to believe, Matthew 16:16-17 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:5 KJV, Ephesians 2:8 KJV.

God is saving sinners of the Adamic nature that is corrupt, Ephesians 2:3 KJV, Ephesians 4:22 KJV. There are those God chose [predestined] before the foundation of the world, Ephesians 1:4 KJV.

So God first predestinates all those who would be saved, and under God’s salvation plan, in order to save those He predestined, He would need a blood sacrifice for sin (the Adamic nature), and their individual sins (sinners as a result of being born into Adam).

So, in order to save this man of flesh with this sinful Adamic nature that only leads to death, Romans 5:12 KJV, someone with the power to save had to come with a body identical to man’s body to save him. This is why Jesus came from heaven and was born in the “likeness of sinful flesh.”

So knowing that Jesus would need to be born on earth, God found Abraham, a righteous man and establish salvation through Abraham’s faith, that any who believe (those predestinated) on the seed of Abraham (Jesus) would be saved. God already predestinated them to believe. God’s plan or road map, is that Jesus be born of the seed of Abraham to bring us to the faith, that we would be the children of Abraham through Christ. This is God’s road map, not ours.

In order for the carnal sinful man, who is enmity against God, who is dead, because we have been crucified on the cross with Christ, to have saving faith like Abraham, that corrupted man would have to be given “Abraham’s faith! Not our faith, but Abraham’s faith, Romans 4:16 KJV, Galatians 3:9 KJV. Also read, 1 Corinthians 2:5 KJV, and Ephesians 2:8 KJV,

So it is not us that must learn faith, or have faith, but we must “allow faith” to operate by the Holy Spirit, a fruit of the Spirit.

There is no other “faith” in the kingdom of heaven except that of the Fruit of the Spirit from the Holy Spirit: Galatians 5:22 KJV. So our so called faith that’s corrupted don’t cut the mustard. The same goes for love. Our love is corrupted.

 

[anetazo]

The person who posted the thread is right, on most of the context.
In order to have Faith. You must have holy spirit.
First Corinthians chapter 2. Holy spirit is gift from God. Many people have spirit of stupor.
Grace versus faith.
Jesus was crucified on cross. For those who who repent and obedience to God. Its grace.
Because many people have spirit of stupor, they lack faith, and grace is out of reach.
Matthew chapter 13. Jesus told His disciples, He speaks in parables to people, because they have spirit of stupor. But the mystery of God is revealed to His disciples.
Were talking about Election !.
Abraham, moses, prophets and apostles are Gods Election.
Today, the election are teachers and pastors or shepherds.
Without holy spirit, they can't understand mystery of God.
Lack of faith derives from the spirt of stupor.
Those with faith have the holy spirit.
Documentation, first Peter chapter 1.
First Corinthians chapter 2.
Romans chapter 11.
Matthew chapter 13.
Isaiah chapter 6.
Isaiah chapter 29.
I documented this. I told the truth.

 

[OldAbramBrown]

I think even the will to choose is given by Grace.

Yes, but a less gloomy kind! ;-)

 

[Billy Evmur]

I don’t understand the point you are making.

You said: “Gods foreknowledge denotes He foreloved a person, and foreordained that person, based solely on His Sovereign prerogative within Himself.”

What you pointed out is not accurate. God had a purpose for making the selection. He didn’t just hate Esau based on His prerogative and love Jacob based on His prerogative. God’s love and hate decision was based on his forknowledge of the two. God is not a cruel God; He would not hate based on His prerogative, that is, for no reason.

God made a distinction between the children (Jacob and Esau) before they were born. And the scripture says, Romans 9:11 KJV, “…that the purpose of God according to election might stand.”

So, what does “that the purpose of God according to ELECTION might stand” mean?

And what does “not of works, but of him that calleth” mean?

Verse 12 (Romans 9:12 KJV), goes on to explain God’s election - It is obvious that God chose Jacob and not Esau, because God reversed the order and said the older shall serve the younger. God knew it was the younger that was suppose to serve the older brother, and that it was the older brother who was suppose to receive the father’s blessing. The question is why would God reverse this order? And why did God establish ELECTION in this manner? And for what purpose?

Verse 13, (Romans 9:13 KJV), goes on to say as it relates to the two children having “not yet been born” that He loved Jacob and hated Esau.

So for the purpose of election, “that it might stand,” based on God’s forknowledge He chose Jacob to receive the blessing, because again, based on His forknowledge of the children, He loved Jacob and hated Esau before they were born?

Not based on His Sovereign prerogative, as you made this up - it’s not scriptural.

But based on His forknowledge, as the scripture states.

Christ had to come through the son who would received the blessing from Isaac. The son to receive the blessing from Issac was Esau, the son God hated (before he was born). Why did God hate a child before it’s born? It was based on His forknowledge of that child, the evil that would come out of Esau. If God had chosen Esau, and established election through Esau, then he would have been establishing evil. So to avoid this, He reversed the order forknowing Jacob would be the righteous son for Jesus to come through, so that election might stand - for us under Christ.

The mistake many reformed christians make [I believe in the reformed position of Luther] is to assume Esau is therefore damned, no he also was blessed and was reconciled to Jacob.

The election to which we are predestined is to be the people of God, the church, His body, His instrument of blessing to the world.

... others can still be saved.

 

[Billy Evmur]

What about love? Shouldn’t love be included into the equation?

... but we don't have any

... not that we loved God but He loved us

 

[Billy Evmur]

John 1:12-12 says

“But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right (power and authority) to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1‬:‭12‬-‭13‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

The cause for receiving the right, power, and authority to become a child of God is the act of receiving Christ. Being born not of the will of blood, flesh, or man, but of God means that they have become a new creation, born again, thru the Holy Spirit receiving a heart of circumcision. If they couldn’t receive Christ without first being given the right, power, and authority to do so then the statement becomes circular and those who do not receive Christ are not actually responsible for their unbelief and not deserving of condemnation.

... not so, people are not guilty because of what they have done but because of what they are. Man is in the state of being at emnity with God therefore is doomed.

 

[Billy Evmur]

Believing is because of grace, so you put the cart before the horse Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

The word through, the prep dia means:

1. through
   1. the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
      1. by reason of
      2. on account of
      3. because of for this reason
      4. therefore
      5. on this account

One cannot believe except its caused by grace, the grace of the Spirits regeneration. The lost unregenerate man or person doesnt have salvation faith, he is dead spiritually and in the flesh, and they which are in the flesh cannot please God, Period Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Yes we are brought to life inwardly by the Holy Ghost and this causes us to submit to Him and come to Him. And no-one resists.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes we are brought to life inwardly by the Holy Ghost and this causes us to submit to Him and come to Him. And no-one resists.

Thats correct, and when its grace causing it, we dont want to resist, we find the things of God Precious 1 Pet 2:7

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

 

[BNR32FAN]

... but we don't have any

... not that we loved God but He loved us

You didn’t love anyone before coming to Christ? I didn’t come to Christ until I was 38 years old and I loved more people than I can count before coming to Christ.

 

[BNR32FAN]

... not so, people are not guilty because of what they have done but because of what they are. Man is in the state of being at emnity with God therefore is doomed.

No one was condemned before Adam’s fall yet Adam was still a man before the fall. Him being a man had nothing to do with his condemnation, it was his actions that condemned him.

 

[Brightfame52]

No one was condemned before Adam’s fall yet Adam was still a man before the fall. Him being a man had nothing to do with his condemnation, it was his actions that condemned him.

Adams act caused many to be condemned, did you know that ? Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

 

[Billy Evmur]

No one was condemned before Adam’s fall yet Adam was still a man before the fall. Him being a man had nothing to do with his condemnation, it was his actions that condemned him.

and we were in Adam, when he fell we fell also. we are doomed with his doom ... except for God's mercy.

 

[Billy Evmur]

You didn’t love anyone before coming to Christ? I didn’t come to Christ until I was 38 years old and I loved more people than I can count before coming to Christ.

there is human love ... I would not stake my life on it but it is strong. But we are called to love with the love wherewith Christ loved us, that's divine love. We don't have any. But God has poured His love into our hearts.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Hate to rock a boat, but when Jesus said "Even sinners love those who love them" the Greek work for love in the text is agape.

So the way I see it is that there is a grace on mankind in general that holds family together being made in His image in that the Godhead is plural.

Without this we denigrate into animal behaviour, it is every man for himself, and there is no love.

However the indwelling Love of Christ in believers changes matters completely as Jesus indicated to the woman at the well.

Without this indwelling Love motivating us, our actions come to nothing of eternal value.

 

[BNR32FAN]

there is human love ... I would not stake my life on it but it is strong. But we are called to love with the love wherewith Christ loved us, that's divine love. We don't have any. But God has poured His love into our hearts.

This is nothing more than a claim, it’s not biblically supported by the scriptures. The scriptures make no distinction on types of love, only the object of focus in which we are placing our love whether it be evil, worldly things or God and others. There’s no mention of this type of love or that type of love.

 

[Billy Evmur]

Hate to rock a boat, but when Jesus said "Even sinners love those who love them" the Greek work for love in the text is agape.

So the way I see it is that there is a grace on mankind in general that holds family together being made in His image in that the Godhead is plural.

Without this we denigrate into animal behaviour, it is every man for himself, and there is no love.

However the indwelling Love of Christ in believers changes matters completely as Jesus indicated to the woman at the well.

Without this indwelling Love motivating us, our actions come to nothing of eternal value.

the Greek word is philo. That it is not good enough, not divine love is made perfectly clear by the context. Jesus says there is a better love.

Man does not have divine love.

 

[Carl Emerson]

the Greek word is philo. That it is not good enough, not divine love is made perfectly clear by the context. Jesus says there is a better love.

Man does not have divine love.

What is the Greek word for love in Luke 6? Nestles Greek interlinear - AGAPE

The word used here for love, agape in Greek, does NOT mean romantic love, liking, or even friendship. What it does mean is whole-hearted, unreserved, unconditional desire for the well-being of the other.

 

[Billy Evmur]

What is the Greek word for love in Luke 6? Nestles Greek interlinear - AGAPE

The word used here for love, agape in Greek, does NOT mean romantic love, liking, or even friendship. What it does mean is whole-hearted, unreserved, unconditional desire for the well-being of the other.

Agape love by definition is God's love ... not human.

When the Lord interviewed Peter He asked Peter 3 times "Peter ,Peter, lovest thou Me?" til Peter was grieved. yes he loved the Lord, as best as he was able ... but it falls short of divine love.

We have to be a little bit humble about it and say with John "it's not that we loved God but that He loved us .... "

I not only say my love falls short but yours does too.