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God only ever had one plan. There was never a plan B. There’s no reason our omniscient, omnipresent Creator would have to make a plan B. There was always only one plan from the very beginning.This is where we fell from - from becoming gods, God’s children. Through Christ, we are being redeemed back to God’s original plan that started in the garden.
God gave Joseph the nature to procreate. He did not give Adam the nature of sin. You cannot compare Adam’s sin to Joseph’s act of knowing Mary, his wife. You are using the wrong reasoning. Joseph was like every man who God told to be fruitful and multiply. However, Adam was incapable of sin because sin had not been introduced to him, and was not ordained by God. The sin that Adam committed came from another source. Once Adam ate of the [sin] that Satan introduced him to, he was MADE corrupted.Adam did not “know” sin just like Joseph didn’t “know” Mary until after Jesus was born. It doesn’t mean he was incapable of doing it, it just means he had not experienced it yet.
The fall was never part of God’s plan. Redemption was part of God’s plan knowing man would fall. You are not considering your own statements - again you are using the wrong reasoning. You yourself said man had free will. So, because of man’s wrong choice, God set redemption up. Big difference.The fall was always part of the plan because man was always destined to fail because of his free will. Because of this the plan for salvation was formulated from the very beginning.
This is where we fell from - from becoming gods, God’s children. Through Christ, we are being redeemed back to God’s original plan that started in the garden.
What plan are you speaking of?God only ever had one plan. There was never a plan B. There’s no reason our omniscient, omnipresent Creator would have to make a plan B. There was always only one plan from the very beginning.
You don’t understand scripture as it relates to the creation of man. Why was there a tree of Life? Why would Jesus say is it not written in your law, I have said ye are gods, John 10:34 KJ, and David said, ye are gods, but will die like men, and fall like one of the princes, Psalms 82:7 KJV? Why would the fall of man be compared to one of the princes? And who are the princes? The princes are the fallen angels.This is purely speculation. You can’t formulate a doctrine based on speculation. There is no evidence to support the idea that Adam was any different than us before the fall. A newborn baby doesn’t know sin either, not until he commits it.
This is purely speculation. There’s no biblical evidence to support it. All this is, is your doctrine says so, so that’s what your going to believe because some 16th century theologians said this is what the Bible says but it DOESN’T ACTUALLY SAY ANYTHING TO THAT EFFECT. That’s why no one has been able to produce a single verse to support this doctrine despite my asking for it numerous times.He did not give Adam the nature of sin.
Then why did God give a consequence for sin when He gave the commandment if Adam was incapable of breaking that commandment? “Hey Adam, I command you to not eat from the tree of knowledge and even tho I made you INCAPABLE OF SIN if you do eat from it you will surely die. How does that not sound ridiculous?However, Adam was incapable of sin because sin had not been introduced to him, and was not ordained by God.
None of this is coming from the scriptures. This is all coming from your imagination which is why nobody can produce a single verse that supports this doctrine.You cannot perform something you do not have, nor are you capable of committing an act you do not have the capability of committing. To do so, it must be GIVEN. The act of sin was GIVEN to Adam. The original sin Adam committed belong to Satan.
God is both omniscient and omnipresent. Do you know what that means? It means He is all knowing and He exists in all time simultaneously. This means God knows everything and there was never a time when He didn’t know everything. Why would He make a plan that He knew would fail? Everything that happened, happened according to His plan. Why did He put the tree of knowledge in the garden to begin with if it served no purpose? The plan was redemption from the beginning otherwise there would’ve been no reason to put the tree of knowledge in the garden. God put the tree in the garden and gave the commandment not to eat it knowing full well that Adam was going to disobey because He had already foreseen everything. There was never any moment where God didn’t know what was going to happen. So why would He make a plan that He knew would fail to begin with? You’re so focused on protecting your doctrine that you’re not fully contemplating what your saying.The fall was never part of God’s plan. Redemption was part of God’s plan knowing man would fall. You are not considering your own statements - again you are using the wrong reasoning. You yourself said man had free will. So, because of man’s wrong choice, God set redemption up. Big difference.
God’s plan for the salvation on man. That’s always been His plan.What plan are you speaking of?
Wow you’ve formulated this entire theology based on an ambiguous passage that could mean anything. And you still didn’t answer the question why did God put the tree of knowledge in the garden to begin with? Or what about this question, if it was God’s plan for Adam to live in the garden of Eden forever why did He give Adam the consequences for eating from the tree of life when He commanded Adam not to eat from it? Your acting as of God didn’t know what Adam was going to do. God gave Adam the consequence before the fall because He already knew that Adam was going to disobey. Honestly I can’t believe I’m having this conversation with a Calvinists who teaches that God has predestined everything. Correct me if I’m wrong here but don’t you teach that God has predestined His plan?You don’t understand scripture as it relates to the creation of man. Why was there a tree of Life? Why would Jesus say is it not written in your law, I have said ye are gods, John 10:34 KJ, and David said, ye are gods, but will die like men, and fall like one of the princes, Psalms 82:7 KJV? Why would the fall of man be compared to one of the princes? And who are the princes? The princes are the fallen angels.
Please take a moment and digest the scriptures.
Man was created by God and was not suppose to die because man was created to live forever - and the Tree of Life would have made that possible. The Bible already tells you that if Adam had eaten from the Tree of Life he would have lived forever. So using reasoning, the question should be why did God put man out of the garden, and block the way of the Tree of Life? Based on Genesis 3:24 KJV, It’s obvious that God was stopping man from living forever.
But because of Adam’s sin, it’s obvious man was prevented from living forever - could not be made spiritual through eating of the Tree of Life - but would die like men, that is, due to sin, man had to be LEFT in “fleshly” bodies that could die. But if the sin had not happened, man’s fleshly body would have changed to spiritual bodies that could not die - become gods, children of God through the Tree of Life.
Why does your boss tell you if you don’t do your job, you will be fired? Does that mean your boss orchestrated your actions, and set in motion events to firing you? No!Or what about this question, if it was God’s plan for Adam to live in the garden of Eden forever why did He give Adam the consequences for eating from the tree of life when He commanded Adam not to eat from it?
Being given a choice does not amount to sin. God warned Adam to not eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, or they would die. That does not mean sin was in Adam at that time. Only if he ate from that Tree would they encounter sin.Then why did God give a consequence for sin when He gave the commandment if Adam was incapable of breaking that commandment? “Hey Adam, I command you to not eat from the tree of knowledge and even tho I made you INCAPABLE OF SIN if you do eat from it you will surely die. How does that not sound ridiculous?
I have produced the verses, you didn’t read them?None of this is coming from the scriptures. This is all coming from your imagination which is why nobody can produce a single verse that supports this doctrine.
You are not understanding scripture!Why did He put the tree of knowledge in the garden to begin with if it served no purpose?
not so, He is the seed of the woman ... conceived of the Holy Ghost, born of a virgin.Yeah according to that logic Jesus was also in there since He is also a descendant of Adam.
You listed verses without the books of the Bible. What scriptures are you referring to?The so-called Fall is better understood as a story of the birth of conscience. Why?
God was pleased by Adam and Eve's disobedience for 2 reasons:
(1) Their disobedience made them "godlike" (3:22) and thus helped them fulfill their status as creatures in God's
"image and likeness (1:27-28)."
(2) Only when they become godlike in this sense do they "come to know good from evil (3:22)."
Both outcomes are morally preferable to their primordial innocence. So disobedience was always part of the divine plan to make it clear that we must come to God for mercy on the basis of grace:
"God HAS LOCKED us all in disobedience so that He might have mercy on all of us (Romans 11:32).
Genesis. That's where the story of Adam and Eve is.You listed verses without the books of the Bible. What scriptures are you referring to?
I’m not a Calvinist. And God’s plan was to redeem man. It was not God’s plan for man to sin. But because God is omnipotent, He knew man was going to sin, therefore He pre-ordained salvation through grace in Christ Jesus to redeem man from their sin state. And yes based on His foreknowledge, and through election, He predestinated those who would believe in Christ.God gave Adam the consequence before the fall because He already knew that Adam was going to disobey. Honestly I can’t believe I’m having this conversation with a Calvinists who teaches that God has predestined everything. Correct me if I’m wrong here but don’t you teach that God has predestined His plan?
Now you’re saying the exact opposite of what you said just earlier today. Like 4 posts earlier you were saying that ADAM WAS INCAPABLE OF SIN. Now all the sudden you’ve thrown that argument out the window because I squashed that it by pointing out the fact that God gave consequences for disobeying His commandment not to eat from the tree of knowledge. You don’t give someone consequences for doing something THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM TO DO. That’s just common sense. And now you’re contradicting yourself by saying that “bosses know that their employees will mess up” meaning that God knew that Adam would sin. That’s completely the opposite of what you said earlier when you said that was incapable of sin.Why does your boss tell you if you don’t do your job, you will be fired? Does that mean your boss orchestrated your actions, and set in motion events to firing you? No!
But bosses knowing that employees will mess up, they set up plans to help employees improve their performance through training, and through yearly employee appraisals. These bosses foresee problems, and set up a plan to mitigate the problem.
But if I have misunderstood, please explain what John 10:34 KJV and Psalms 82:6-7 KJV mean?
We must read with discernment!
Adam was incapable of sin because sin had not been introduced to him, and was not ordained by God. The sin that Adam committed came from another source. Once Adam ate of the [sin] that Satan introduced him to, he was MADE corrupted.
You cannot perform something you do not have, nor are you capable of committing an act you do not have the capability of committing. To do so, it must be GIVEN. The act of sin was GIVEN to Adam. The original sin Adam committed belong to Satan.
You don’t seem to understand that it makes no sense for God to give consequences for doing that that Adam is incapable of doing. Would it make sense for me to tell my son don’t jump over the house otherwise I’m going to give you a spanking? No because it’s impossible for him to do that. Just like it would be ridiculous for me to give my son consequences for doing something that is impossible for him to do it would be equally ridiculous for God to give Adam consequences for failing to obey His commandment if Adam is incapable of disobeying.Being given a choice does not amount to sin. God warned Adam to not eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, or they would die. That does not mean sin was in Adam at that time. Only if he ate from that Tree would they encounter sin.
Let’s think - there was someone else in the Garden - Satan who had already been kicked out of heaven. Satan can only bring sin. Satan is the originator of sin. Before tricking Eve, Adam could not have been capable of sin - sin would have had to be introduced to a vessel with no sin.
For example, you have a clean vessel? How does the stain of filth corrupt a clean vessel? You can’t say the vessel is capable of corruption because the filth have to come from somewhere.
Just like the human body when it comes to sickness and diseases. The human body becomes sick from outside forces - a host of bacteria, and a host of viruses.
This is why Jesus could cast out sickness and leave the vessel clean. And cast out evil spirits and leave the vessel clean.
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