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stabalizer said:Sure is a pretty baby you'r holding there God's blessings to your house.
enegue said:Perhaps you haven't read enough of what Paul had to say:For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.Now, I can see an obvious direction for an argumentative soul to pursue, but hopefully you can think things through before you go down that path.
-- Romans 8:5
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
-- Romans 8:13
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.-
- Galatians 5:16
Cheers,
engue
No, this is not a debate. It's a discussion, or at least that's what it is supposed to be. Your perception of what this forum represents is testimony to the way you present yourself - argumentative.Reformationist said:You do understand that this is a debate, right?
I would encourage you to refer to the post at the top of the soteriology forum titled, "FORUM ANNOUNCEMENT - All Must Read."enegue said:No, this is not a debate. It's a discussion, or at least that's what it is supposed to be. Your perception of what this forum represents is testimony to the way you present yourself - argumentative.
In a spirit of discussion, and not debate, will you please re-read my last few posts? If/When you have done this, would you respond again please. I'm sure the parable of the sower has more to say about why some people take the message of the Gospel and others don't, than you were able to comprehend (because of your frame of mind) at first reading. The glibness of your comment is indicitive of a lack of ears to hear.
Cheers,
enegue
enegue said:No, this is not a debate. It's a discussion, or at least that's what it is supposed to be. Your perception of what this forum represents is testimony to the way you present yourself - argumentative.
enegue said:Debate is defined as to engage in argument by discussing opposing points.
enegue said:Reformationist,
If you claim that God does it all, and man has no active part to play in the process, then why did He not just do it all for Adam and Eve in the first place?
Reformationist said:Enegue, man's part to play in his eternal salvation is that of passive recipient. Man does play a part in his progressive salvation from the sin in his members as he is sanctified and conformed to the image of Christ. My point is simply that God's choice to elect him, His work of atonement, His monergistic imputation of Christ's righteousness through His gracious gift of faith, all of it is done by God alone and based solely on the counsel of the Godhead and Their purpose in the covenant of redemption. None of this is instituted because of any participatory action on the part of man.
stabalizer said:I can't believe you believe this. It negates faith at least faith as I understand it!
When Abraham raised the knife it wasn't passive or was it non participatory.
the cross was non participatory or passive?
Reformationist said:My point is simply that God's choice to elect him, His work of atonement, His monergistic imputation of Christ's righteousness through His gracious gift of faith, all of it is done by God alone and based solely on the counsel of the Godhead and Their purpose in the covenant of redemption.
It begins with faith and continues with faith.
Reformationist said:Two things. First, "the Cross" was God's work, not man's.
Before I address the myriad of unbiblical and anthropocentric implications in what you are professing, please enlighten me. From where does that faith come? How does man come to have it? How do the words of God come to generate faith within some but not others who hear the same message?
depthdeception said:Actually, the cross was just as much "man's" work as it was God's... It was not God who died there...
Faith does not come from anywhere. It is not a force roaming the universe that is "somewhere" and can be "here" but not "there." An act of "faith" is an act of one that is faithful.
enegue said:You have some unanswered questions to address:
If you claim that God does it all, and man has no active part to play in the process, then why did He not just do it all for Adam and Eve in the first place?
What is the point of this whole creation groaning and travailing in pain until now?
Reformationist said:LOL!Good one....oh, my bad. Are you being serious?
One either has faith in the vicarious atonement of Christ or one doesn't. If one does, they have it. It's a part of their being, which, so far as I can tell, is "somewhere." If they do not have faith in the vicarious atonement of Christ then faith is not "there," that is, it is not part of their being.
As seems to be the regular case with your posts, they make no sense to me.
If I have missed your point, maybe you could rephrase in a less obtuse manner.
Reformationist said:I'm not sure you understand what I was putting forth so I cannot say whether your "shock" is accurately based.
Thank you for responding, i guess maybe i'm not posotive what you're saying so i'll try to explaiN.
Nothing about faith is passive,
Was Abraham's salvation based on his act of "raising the knife?"
No, but the covenant was. God saw his faith through the raising of the knife and received Isaac in a figure, iow God countd Isaac as dead
Two things. First, "the Cross" was God's work, not man's. My statement regarding man's passivity in his eternal salvation dealt with his role in his eternal salvation. Secondly, I mentioned the work of God in the Atonement:
YES but God was man at the cross!
Before I address the myriad of unbiblical and anthropocentric implications in what you are professing, please enlighten me. From where does that faith come? How does man come to have it? How do the words of God come to generate faith within some but not others who hear the same message?
depthdeception said:Interesting. Few others on the myriad threads in which I participate have this difficulty. Perhaps the crux of the issue lies somewhere else...
stabalizer said:I can't receive your statement of , "unbiblical professions", as accurate.
"anthropocentric", please that's just being critical. : " I will come to revelations and visions of God" ( by grace of course).
I'm not sure you understand what faith is and isn't.
It's not only the definition but it's the objective of faith that matters, ( it's about service)
I assure , I KNOW WHAT FAITH IS AND HOW IT WORKS.
It's the process of faith that most don't get. Mental assent isn't salvation.
I look forward to enlightening you to the best of my ability. Be patient please
If I might quote Will Rodgers; "all men are ignorant, but just about different things.
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