"godliness"

[foundinHim]

"godliness" = "holiness"

"godliness" relates to a real, true, vital, and spiritual relation with God.
"godliness" is the opposite of religion.
religion relates to the outward acts of religious observances or ceremonies, which can be performed by the flesh.
Our English word 'religion' was never used in the sense of true "godliness". 'religion' always meant the outward forms of worship.

In 1Tim.3:16, "the mystery/secret of godliness" is connected with true Christianity as distinct from religion.
Let us compare these 2 verses:
(1Tim.2:2) For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all "godliness" and honesty. [living a godly life, pleasing to God]
(1Tim.2:10) But (which becometh women "professing godliness") with good works. ["professing" to be godly is not pleasing to God]
Being religious is the opposite of being godly.

Living a life of "godliness" is a life truly devoted to God.
In ALL things.....
Let us honor Him,
Let us reverence Him,
Let us respect Him,
Let us love Him,
Let us praise, thank, and glorify Him!!!

(1Tim.3:16)
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
(1Tim.4:7-8)
But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
For bodily exercise profiteth little, but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
(1Tim.6:3)
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
(1Tim.6:5-6)
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
But godliness with contentment is great gain.
(1Tim.6:11)
But thou, O man of God, flee these things;
and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
(2Tim.3:5)
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
(Titus 1:1)
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

**********************************************************************************************************

Even though these following verses are NOT INTERPRETED of "the church"/body of Christ, they CAN BE APPLIED to "the church"/body of Christ.

(2Pet.1:3)
According as His divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him That hath called us to glory and virtue;
(2Pet.1:6-7)
And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
(2Pet.3:11)
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved,
what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

 

[foundinHim]

bump

 

[Tertius]

...
"godliness" is the opposite of religion.
religion relates to the outward acts of religious observances or ceremonies, which can be performed by the flesh.
Our English word 'religion' was never used in the sense of true "godliness". 'religion' always meant the outward forms of worship...

Related to your comments on "religion," you may find interesting the following on "superstition." It is a definition from Noah Webster's 1828 dictionary:

SUPERSTI'TION, n. [L. superstitio, supersto; super and sto, to stand.]
1. Excessive exactness or rigor in religious opinions or practice; extreme and unnecessary scruples in the observance of religious rites not commanded, or of points of minor importance; excess or extravagance in religion; the doing of things not required by God, or abstaining from things not forbidden; or the belief of what is absurd, or belief without evidence.
Superstition has reference to god, to religion, or to beings superior to man.

So at the same time as being described as "reglious," one could also be described a "superstitious," such as doing something that is not commanded or required, and practiciting it as such...

 

[foundinHim]

(2Cor.1:12)
"For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward."

(2Tim.3:12)
"Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."

(Titus 2:12-13)
"Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; "

 

[s0journ3r]

I was looking up some quotes by Charles Spurgeon on this topic and came accross this one that I really like:

"Aim at the highest conceivable degree of holiness; and, though you will not be perfect, never excuse yourselves because you are not."
​

Yours truly in Christ,
sojourner

 

[eph3Nine]

Related to your comments on "religion," you may find interesting the following on "superstition." It is a definition from Noah Webster's 1828 dictionary:

SUPERSTI'TION, n. [L. superstitio, supersto; super and sto, to stand.]
1. Excessive exactness or rigor in religious opinions or practice; extreme and unnecessary scruples in the observance of religious rites not commanded, or of points of minor importance; excess or extravagance in religion; the doing of things not required by God, or abstaining from things not forbidden; or the belief of what is absurd, or belief without evidence.
Superstition has reference to god, to religion, or to beings superior to man.

So at the same time as being described as "reglious," one could also be described a "superstitious," such as doing something that is not commanded or required, and practiciting it as such...

Excellent points here, Tertius!

Much of what passes for "all the same gospel" does indeed fall into this category when not acknowledged for what it IS by the participants. When folks try to put into practice those things NOTrequired of them in this dispensation, THIS definition is what it looks like to God. He is after those who have simply BELIEVED and accepted what He has provided thru "imputed righteousness", instead of the futility of "seeking to establish their OWN righteousness."

 

[pehkay]

Godliness is a living that expresses the divine reality, an expression of God in all His riches.

 

[eph3Nine]

"We are "MADE the righteousness of God in HIM"...whether we act like it or NOT.

God SEES us as righteous in Christ...THAT is our new identity. Our behavior "should" change to reflect His living IN us, however, God already sees the FINISHED product.

That is why He tells us NOT to judge another brother on the basis of his outward behavior, but to see that brother IN CHRIST.

 

[foundinHim]

Ah, yes..."great is the mystery of godliness"!

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Very strange that you can deny Peter's epistles are for the Church -the body of Christ- today, for he specifically wrote to scattered New Testament Church,
1Pe 1:1¶"Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers [pilgrims] scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia..."
-and I do not think you are understanding the doctrine of the mystery of godliness -
1Ti 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
-and want to get the cart before the horse, as David Wilkersen's preacher daddy accused preachers of, who preached holiness before conversion:
See; it is impossible for one who is not converted -which is a term for the second birth, which is the generation again of us by being born of the Living Spirit which joins us to the One New Man- to live a life pleasing to God, as no one in Adam can approach His Holy Mount; only those born a second time into the Spirit of the Only Begotten [the Living Human] Son of God can ascend His "Holy Hill" and be seated in Christ with God.

Read a biography of John and Charles Wesley and you'll learn that their own mother strove to please God by living as good a life as she thought one should live who believed in the One True God, but discovered that she was never converted "born again" when John became converted "Born a second time in the New Man's spirit" and preached it. Suzannah, the mother of the Wesleys, then was "got hold of by God" and being convicted, called on the LORD for salvation in His name and was saved. -as good as she was, she was not clothed with the garments of true holiness, the Spirit of regeneration into the Living Spirit.

-Then one can be an adopted son of God, when they call on the name of the LORD for salvation and then they speak and live the "Strait" [bound] Witness [Testimony] and sealed "Law" [which is written on the hearts of their New Man nature].

Isa 8:16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

To be 'righeous' without conversion [which is the act of being born again, a second time, when the New Man's Spirit is "generated" in you] is as if one is offering a women's used menstral rag to the Holy YHWH as a sacrifice -in His own words- "for all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags".

Have you been born again? -then you will not dwell in sin, for His Seed is in you; but if you fall by the craftiness of the old man nature deceiving you, then we have an advocate with the Father; Jesus Christ the righteous, and we repent as soon as we are aware of the deceit of sin working in us; and He acts on our behalf, for He ever lives to make intercession for us, as "Firstborn"; therefore High Priest and High King of earth and the Only begotton Son of Man/Son of God who is with the Father on our behalf, having ascended and been seated as the New Man, the Prince with God =Israel, who took Adam's place over earth, ransomed us and the kingdom and adopts us into His Living Spirit.

Christ in you by the regeneration of Spirit is the hope of glory -have you been born again of His Living Spirit? -can you call Him LORD by His authority because He is in you and you in Him -"One" spirit?

 

[biblebeliever123]

"godliness" = "holiness"

"godliness" relates to a real, true, vital, and spiritual relation with God.
"godliness" is the opposite of religion.
religion relates to the outward acts of religious observances or ceremonies, which can be performed by the flesh.
Our English word 'religion' was never used in the sense of true "godliness". 'religion' always meant the outward forms of worship.

In 1Tim.3:16, "the mystery/secret of godliness" is connected with true Christianity as distinct from religion.
Let us compare these 2 verses:
(1Tim.2:2) For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all "godliness" and honesty. [living a godly life, pleasing to God]
(1Tim.2:10) But (which becometh women "professing godliness") with good works. ["professing" to be godly is not pleasing to God]
Being religious is the opposite of being godly.

Living a life of "godliness" is a life truly devoted to God.
In ALL things.....
Let us honor Him,
Let us reverence Him,
Let us respect Him,
Let us love Him,
Let us praise, thank, and glorify Him!!!

(1Tim.3:16)
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
(1Tim.4:7-8)
But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
For bodily exercise profiteth little, but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
(1Tim.6:3)
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
(1Tim.6:5-6)
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
But godliness with contentment is great gain.
(1Tim.6:11)
But thou, O man of God, flee these things;
and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
(2Tim.3:5)
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
(Titus 1:1)
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

**********************************************************************************************************

Even though these following verses are NOT INTERPRETED of "the church"/body of Christ, they CAN BE APPLIED to "the church"/body of Christ.

(2Pet.1:3)
According as His divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him That hath called us to glory and virtue;
(2Pet.1:6-7)
And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
(2Pet.3:11)
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved,
what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

Amen, found in him.

The apostle Paul, the apostle of the Body of Christ for this dispensation has more to say about godliness than any other Bible writer. It would seem that if a person wants to be know about godliness in the dispensation of the gospel of the grace of God he would need to read, study, understand, and heed the writings of the apostle Paul given to him by direct revelation from the risen, ascended Lord from glory.
Philippians 4:9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, DO: and the God of peace shall be with you.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Amen, found in him.

The apostle Paul, the apostle of the Body of Christ for this dispensation has more to say about godliness than any other Bible writer. It would seem that if a person wants to be know about godliness in the dispensation of the gospel of the grace of God he would need to read, study, understand, and heed the writings of the apostle Paul given to him by direct revelation from the risen, ascended Lord from glory.
Philippians 4:9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, DO: and the God of peace shall be with you.

But Paul was specifically targeting the Philippians so, since you aren't the target of that letter and haven't seen Paul do anything, then you cannot exclude all Scripture as if not written to you and pick that which is specifically not written to you -or pick select parts of it, as those in MAD also choose parts, only, of what Paul wrote to believe or discard according to their own and not the Holy Spirit's choosing- and say it is for you.
See what a dilemma the doctrine of MAD called "rightly dividing" gets one who follows it into? -I do

 

[biblebeliever123]

As a gentile I know who my apostle is....Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

People often fail to understand the truth that Paul is the apostle appointed by the risen, ascended glorified Lord to complete the word of God. In all of his epistles, Paul is addressing members of the church the body of Christ. Members of the body of Christ who understand that we are to rightly divide the word of truth know that Paul wrote to the body of Christ specifically. As for those that don't understand that blessed truth..

Ephesians 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who BELIEVE, according to the working of his mighty power,
Ephesians 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,Ephesians 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Ephesians 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Ephesians 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Praise the Lord for the privilege of being a member of the church which is his body and know that He inspired ALL scripture for our learning and specifically appointed Paul as the apostle of the gentiles. So many wonderful things to be thankful for...amazing GRACE.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

As a gentile I know who my apostle is....Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

People often fail to understand the truth that Paul is the apostle appointed by the risen, ascended glorified Lord to complete the word of God. In all of his epistles, Paul is addressing members of the church the body of Christ. Members of the body of Christ who understand that we are to rightly divide the word of truth know that Paul wrote to the body of Christ specifically. As for those that don't understand that blessed truth..

Ephesians 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who BELIEVE, according to the working of his mighty power,
Ephesians 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,Ephesians 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Ephesians 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Ephesians 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Praise the Lord for the privilege of being a member of the church which is his body and know that He inspired ALL scripture for our learning and specifically appointed Paul as the apostle of the gentiles. So many wonderful things to be thankful for...amazing GRACE.

But as you are not a Roman Gentile, then by the doctrine of MAD called "rightly dividing" then Romans is not targeted to you.

Paul was sent -way back then- to target groups, but he was not sent to India, where Timothy went and was martyred and where a New Testament Church was founded, for one -and there were many other places where Chruches were founded. Ethiopian New Testament Believers were the poduct of Phillip preaching to the Queen's Eunuch, for instance -and so many more places where Disciples went in obedience to the Great Commission have records of the preaching of the Gospel, in history; and BTW; those Ethiopians never cast Enoch out of their Canon!

Nope, Paul was not sent to all Gentiles -only to those he named; and you are not one of them; and he always went to the Jews first, in every city, BTW- so Paul is not the "Apostle to all Gentiles" and he was not the Apostle to the Indian continent nor to the Ethiopians nor to the African continent nor to the Chinese nor to the inhabitants of the western continents [now called North and South America], which travel was made to and known of before the last dark age; for Paul told us that the Gospel had been preached to every creature under heaven in his day -and Paul did not go to every creature under heaven, but was limited to his own sphere of influence and to those he named in his letters.

 

[GraceNotLaw]

As a gentile I know who my apostle is....Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

People often fail to understand the truth that Paul is the apostle appointed by the risen, ascended glorified Lord to complete the word of God. In all of his epistles, Paul is addressing members of the church the body of Christ. Members of the body of Christ who understand that we are to rightly divide the word of truth know that Paul wrote to the body of Christ specifically. As for those that don't understand that blessed truth..

Ephesians 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who BELIEVE, according to the working of his mighty power,
Ephesians 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,Ephesians 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Ephesians 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Ephesians 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Praise the Lord for the privilege of being a member of the church which is his body and know that He inspired ALL scripture for our learning and specifically appointed Paul as the apostle of the gentiles. So many wonderful things to be thankful for...amazing GRACE.

This is wonderful...I just found this site. Am hoping to find other mid acts dispys to have conversations with. You sound like you know what you're talking about and have studied out right division. Do you know of any other sites I can go to that are dispensational?

Also, are there any bible studies you know of online that I could attend? Thanks ahead of time for your reply.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Jhn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


Jhn 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, [but] grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Who is John speaking to, gracenotlaw, in the above passage, and what does it mean?

 

[GraceNotLaw]

I hope Im doing this right. This is to answer yeshuasavesme.

The passages you quoted are written by John and he is a minister of the Circumcision. This means that the audience to whom his words are directed are all Jewish people. Jesus did bring grace and truth, but grace and truth were always part of Gods dealings with man.

Jesus brought grace and truth to the Jews when He was living on earth. However, when He rose from the dead, He instituted a dispensation of the Grace of God which had never before existed. Up to that point, the manner in which God dealt with mankind was through a favored nation, and if you came through that nation, you could have a relationship with Him, and only then.

When God put Israel aside, temporarily, God changed His manner of dealing with men, He began what the Bible calls the new creation; ie; the Body of Christ. No favored national status today, but one body made up of two; Jew and Gentile.

When one does as God commands and rightly divides the manner in which He deals with different audiences at different times, it makes the Bible come alive.

So, your question is easily answered because scripture tells us to whom John was a minister, and what criteria he was under at the time. He was a teacher of the law, as was Peter. It was the only criteria God gave at that particular point in time.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I hope Im doing this right. This is to answer yeshuasavesme.

You’re doing just fine -surely you’re no novice to the boards

The passages you quoted are written by John and he is a minister of the Circumcision. This means that the audience to whom his words are directed are all Jewish people. Jesus did bring grace and truth, but grace and truth were always part of Gods dealings with man.

1 So John, who was commanded to preach the Gospel to the Gentiles, is speaking about the Law coming by Moses to the Jews but Grace and Truth coming to the Jews by Jesus? -in your opinion?
How is the Grace and Truth Jesus brought to the Jews which John says He brought them different from the Law Moses brought to the Jews, then, in your opinion; from John‘s standpoint of this passage?

Jesus brought grace and truth to the Jews when He was living on earth. However, when He rose from the dead, He instituted a dispensation of the Grace of God which had never before existed. Up to that point, the manner in which God dealt with mankind was through a favored nation, and if you came through that nation, you could have a relationship with Him, and only then.

2 How is it that Jesus said no one comes to the Father but “by in of among through” the Son:
Since Jesus said that, then how is it that God accepted the Jews? since Jesus said no one comes to Him but by the Son? -Was Jesus speaking that to Jews, in your opinion, and if He said that to them, then did He expect them to come to the Father through Him -and what does it mean to come to the Father, biblically, anyway, in you opinion, and why did Jesus say that the Son, who alone knows the Father, revealed the Father to whom He willed: and why did Jesus tell certain Jews that they had not seen the Father nor heard His voice at any time -Had any of them, in your opinion, then?

When one does as God commands and rightly divides the manner in which He deals with different audiences at different times, it makes the Bible come alive.

3 “Target” audiences, you mean -right?
Like when Jesus told the disciples to not go by the “Way of the Gentiles” -where He had already begun His ministry and first miracles, and not go into any Samarian town -but the next chapter they are going by Way of the Gentiles [Galilee] and into the Samarian villages? -is that what you mean by target audiences? dividing when Jesus meant one thing for one time and not that same thing for all time? -then I certainly agree!, for the MAD doctrine has heretofore used specific time and target audience commands to apply them to all times and the specifics of that certain command which is seen to be for one time for one reason and not for all times is somehow falsely used by MAD doctrine espousers to override the Great Commmission -which is totally against all logic -so I do hope you can sort the target audiences and specific commands out and keep them from overriding the actual doings of the disciples in obedience to Jesus:0

So, your question is easily answered because scripture tells us to whom John was a minister, and what criteria he was under at the time. He was a teacher of the law, as was Peter. It was the only criteria God gave at that particular point in time.

4 Then why did Jesus say that the Law and the prophets were until John, but “since John” the kingdom of God is preached and “every man presses into it?
-do you believe Jesus lied and that the MAD doctrine has the authority to negate Jesus’ own words to the contrary of what MAD is saying about that: or are you willing to admit that Jesus is the Authority on the matter, Himself; and His Word is truth and to be be obeyed, and that since John the kingdom of God is preached and every man presses in -and not by the Law?
~~~~~~~
No man ever ascended to the Holy of Holies by the Law, for no man is perfected by the blood of bulls and goats, and the Law was an oracle to teach us the Way, which Paul calls the 'goal' or the "Finish", or the end, of the Law; which Way was perfection as sons of God in the New Man -of the which I have many things to say, but you cannot receive them now...but the Way was always the "Strait Gate" and no one ever entered in until the Way was opened by the "Set Forth Propitiation", which made an end of the Sacrifice forever.

 

[foundinHim]

This is wonderful...I just found this site. Am hoping to find other mid acts dispys to have conversations with. You sound like you know what you're talking about and have studied out right division. Do you know of any other sites I can go to that are dispensational?

Also, are there any bible studies you know of online that I could attend? Thanks ahead of time for your reply.

Dearly beloved GraceNotLaw:

There are pleny of threads at this 'dispensationalism' forum for you to read, to start with. I had only found this site about 6 months ago, and I was filled with joy and peace, at first. Many of the regulars have just about quit posting, for many different reasons.

Feel free to start your own threads...that's what most of us do.

"rightly dividing the word of truth" is the way to "rightly" understand God-breathed Scriptures.

In Christ, Love abides!
"found in Him" (Anne)

 

[GraceNotLaw]

Dearly beloved GraceNotLaw:

There are pleny of threads at this 'dispensationalism' forum for you to read, to start with. I had only found this site about 6 months ago, and I was filled with joy and peace, at first. Many of the regulars have just about quit posting, for many different reasons.

Feel free to start your own threads...that's what most of us do.

"rightly dividing the word of truth" is the way to "rightly" understand God-breathed Scriptures.

In Christ, Love abides!
"found in Him" (Anne)

Hey, thanks for the warm welcome. Its always great to meet other grace believers. I travel much of the time in my work, but always have access to the internet, so this works well for me.

I noticed there are many good posts in this particular forum to read and have found in my own experience that when and where the Grace message is put forth, you will always find those who oppose it; some more vigorously than others.

Once it is determined that a person sets himself up against the truth of Gods Word, not much you can do but ignore them. That won't keep we who see the truth clearly from having fellowship and being greatly encouraged by one another, so I always say "bring em on!"

Do you attend a Grace Church, Anne? My wife and I came out of a Baptist background and have been right dividers for over ten years. What a great way to truly understand Gods Word. My name is Walt, by the way.