God says 6 day creation?

[Eluzai]

Exodus 20
11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

God said this to Moses directly in the middle of the Ten Commandments... God said this... He cant lie and surely the Ten Commandments aren't metaphorical?

How does that fit in with evolution?

 

[1denomination]

Exodus 20
11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

God said this to Moses directly in the middle of the Ten Commandments... God said this... He cant lie and surely the Ten Commandments aren't metaphorical?

How does that fit in with evolution?

Thats all i have to say.

 

[rmwilliamsll]

Exodus 20
11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

God said this to Moses directly in the middle of the Ten Commandments... God said this... He cant lie and surely the Ten Commandments aren't metaphorical?

How does that fit in with evolution?

Exd 20:1 Then God spoke all these words, saying,
Exd 20:2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
Exd 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before Me.
Exd 20:4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
Exd 20:5 "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,
Exd 20:6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Exd 20:7 "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain.
Exd 20:8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exd 20:9 "Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Exd 20:10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; {in it} you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
Exd 20:11 "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.
Exd 20:12 "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the LORD your God gives you.
Exd 20:13 "You shall not murder.
Exd 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery.
Exd 20:15 "You shall not steal.
Exd 20:16 "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Exd 20:17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor."

actually:
1.prolonged in the land
the land is the great metaphor in the OT for heaven in the NT.
however taking it literally would mean honoring your parents mean you would be investing in real estate in Israel.

2.his ox or his donkey
livestock are wealth, we translate it into money, again symbolic
i honestly don't yearn for my neighbor's donkey's....but i don't think that is what it means. even worse would be to think this would mean that we ought to be donkey herders as a 'closer to God society'. the question is if this is NORMATIVE, having donkey's as wealth as do nomads in the North of Africa still do.

but most importantly for this discussion
3. is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.

is heaven above and waters below which separate the physical world from sheol? or is this another complex cultural metaphor?
we have no above, no heaven, nor water beneath in our modern cosmology. yet we easily translate this into our cosmology, so effortlessly that we are unaware that it is a metaphor to us, but not to the ancient Hebrews, it described their cosmology, but not ours. OUght we to protest that all the telescopic evidence is fake because it is contrary to a ANE cosmology?

or yet another culture artifact
4. your male or your female servant (brought up twice)
these are slaves. metaphorical? or part of a cultural complex that we ought to emulate? or is it something cultural that is not being taught as universal and forever (transcultural) but is being used to get a more important message across. In fact, these verses were used to justify slavery in the US just 150 years ago, by Christians who actually took these verses more literally than do you (unless you are Christian Identity, who still teach slavery)


and that is just the beginning of the analysis.
simply saying that the great metaphor/motif of 7 day creation appears in the commandments means that we must incorporate it into our scientific explanatory complex is very simplistic and drags a lot more in that open door:

slavery as a principle of social organization
livestock as currency, an economic principle
ANE cosmology counter to modern astronomy

something i don't believe that you intended to do.

....

 

[Eluzai]

I just spent an hour writing a reply to that and it just got sucked into the internet.

I'll reply again later.

 

[Vance]

In addition to the dichotomies of the literalist views williams pointed out, the problem of begging the question also is present. You can't bootstrap a belief that any reference to a past event must be to a literal, historical past event to conclude that a description of a past event must be an historical reference.

If the original description of the six days was figurative, this does not mean that God was just telling us a bed-time story. Telling truths through figurative language was given and taken VERY seriously in ancient times. They saw that method of teaching every bit as valid as telling historical accounts of the past. So, if you accept that God is speaking figuratively in Genesis 1, you still accept that He is telling us very important, even crucial, matters.

One of these important matters is the setting aside of one day. God taught us that truth in Genesis 1, whether it was based on an historical event or by way of a figurative literary convention. God taught it either way. So, when He then reminds us of the teaching later on, why would He not use the same figurative model He used the first time? In fact, in ancient times, they would continue to make references to such events and traditions, even if they did not think they were entirely historical, because they grasped something moderns have a hard time with. A truth can be JUST as true even if told by way of a figurative story. God describes His process as taking place over six days, and resting on the seventh for our benefit, for our instruction. This does not require historicity. The message is the same either way.

Now, do we think God ACTUALLY rested? God is spirit, with infinite power and can not possibly have any need whatsoever for rest. Even if you want to say that He set aside the time to rest, this is still not the same as ACTUALLY resting, since that is presumed on having experienced actual physical exertion which requires rest. So, we KNOW this phrase is figurative. God is describing Himself resting, even though He was not actually resting. As I mention in another post (which seems to be avoided by YECs), God described Himself as "breathing" when He did not actually breathe.
So, God described Himself as taking six days, when it was not really literal days.

If you can accept the "breathing" and the "resting" as being figurative, why not the days?

 

[herev]

Now, do we think God ACTUALLY rested? God is spirit, with infinite power and can not possibly have any need whatsoever for rest. Even if you want to say that He set aside the time to rest, this is still not the same as ACTUALLY resting, since that is presumed on having experienced actual physical exertion which requires rest. So, we KNOW this phrase is figurative. God is describing Himself resting, even though He was not actually resting.

God in a Lazy Boy, with a remote control in His hand, drifting off for a nap--what a nice, anthropomorphic picture:

 

[Eluzai]

Telling truths through figurative language was given and taken VERY seriously in ancient times.

Forgive me for asking, but where do you find this information because I've been wanting to get hold of some ancient hebrew texts (in translation obviously) that weren't the Bible for a while.

Now, do we think God ACTUALLY rested?

"The plane came to a rest on the runway." "The toy was resting against the wall when the boy came to pick it up." "The football rested in the divot until the goalkeeper kicked it halfway across the pitch." Etc. But my point is rest also means visibly motionless. To be fair I'd need to know Hebrew to really be able to quibble over one word. You might be right, I might be right. But to answer your question no I don't think God was tired, but I do think he was not visibly active on the seventh day. That's just much more straight forward for me personally.

 

[Vance]

My background is in ancient history, in fact I have a degree from university on ancient history, even if that was 20 years ago (although I have continued my studies as a hobby even though I chose law as a career). I can not point to a particular source for this point after all this time, but this is based on a fairly substantial immersion in ancient near eastern cultures, as well as Greece and Rome.

The forms of "rest" you mention will not work, since the word is used in the "rest after labor" meaning based on the text itself. Even in a figurative reading, the text is internally consistent. The point is that God is spirit, He does not "rest" as a result of labors. He does not breathe air from lungs. He is using these literary conventions for OUR benefit, to convey a particular meaning or point.

 

[rmwilliamsll]

11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.

what day are we currently in, with respect to this?
did God's creation week continue to repeat a 7 day cycle, like the ancient Hebrews week or is it some else?

traditional interpretation has all subsequent history in God's 7th day. He is no longer creating 'bara', ex nihilo, out of nothing, but rather providentially, using secondary causes, moving things around that already exist.

This even drives discussions such as the creation of human souls and lead to traducianism, in order to allow God to continue His rest and not actively create new souls.

but start with the question---
what day of God's creation week are we currently in?
did the pattern continue with 7 day cycles or is God's heavenly pattern a single creative week?

then show how you determined this from the text.