God only loves you if you believe it?

[DarkSoul999]

This may sound like a strange question but this is exactly what it sounds like when evangelists try to explain faith to an unbeliever. All in all I'd have to say the quality of evangelism has been getting dramatically worse over the centuries.

If they are seeking God then it ought to be pretty obvious that they are not willfully rejecting him. There are plenty of other things for a worldly person to be doing like watching a show, going to a party, or literally anything that doesn't bring their deepest loneliness and pain to the surface. A great number are not asking you about God as an intellectual exercise or to somehow "crush" you in debate. They are asking you because they recognize a hole in their lives.

So when you tell an unbeliever "stop rebelling and choose Christ now!" what you are actually telling them is that they need to somehow immediately re-wire all the confusion in their minds or pray to God to re-wire their minds. Then when it doesn't happen they have an anxiety attack. Some will be able to do that but most who are addressed this way will never speak to you again. They don't think they are rebelling. Maybe they are but they are definitely not aware of it.

There is another product of this maligned interaction: the belief that Christianity is an exclusive club. Only those with the natural capacity to immediately believe the gospel will enter heaven. Indeed ONLY this particular variant of human is loved by God at any level whatsoever.

The end result is they either go totally mad and die or give up on seeking Christ and look for some other spiritual path. There is no other way for them to respond when hearing the gospel explained in this manner.

How did this happen? Whatever happened to "Jesus will accept you as you are"?

It is very easy to trust a Jesus who is extending his hand to pull you from the storm.

It is very hard to trust a Jesus who is standing on the boat and asking you "do you believe I will extend my hand to you? If not I'm turning this boat around right now."

Which is it?

 

[HTacianas]

This may sound like a strange question but this is exactly what it sounds like when evangelists try to explain faith to an unbeliever. All in all I'd have to say the quality of evangelism has been getting dramatically worse over the centuries.

If they are seeking God then it ought to be pretty obvious that they are not willfully rejecting him. There are plenty of other things for a worldly person to be doing like watching a show, going to a party, or literally anything that doesn't bring their deepest loneliness and pain to the surface. A great number are not asking you about God as an intellectual exercise or to somehow "crush" you in debate. They are asking you because they recognize a hole in their lives.

So when you tell an unbeliever "stop rebelling and choose Christ now!" what you are actually telling them is that they need to somehow immediately re-wire all the confusion in their minds or pray to God to re-wire their minds. Then when it doesn't happen they have an anxiety attack. Some will be able to do that but most who are addressed this way will never speak to you again. They don't think they are rebelling. Maybe they are but they are definitely not aware of it.

There is another product of this maligned interaction: the belief that Christianity is an exclusive club. Only those with the natural capacity to immediately believe the gospel will enter heaven. Indeed ONLY this particular variant of human is loved by God at any level whatsoever.

The end result is they either go totally mad and die or give up on seeking Christ and look for some other spiritual path. There is no other way for them to respond when hearing the gospel explained in this manner.

How did this happen? Whatever happened to "Jesus will accept you as you are"?

It is very easy to trust a Jesus who is extending his hand to pull you from the storm.

It is very hard to trust a Jesus who is standing on the boat and asking you "do you believe I will extend my hand to you? If not I'm turning this boat around right now."

Which is it?

Sounds like you've been "evangelized" by protestant teenagers. There are those out there who've graduated from at least two years of Sunday school and heard a couple of lines from the sermon on the mount and think they're ready to go out and save the world. As soon as they run across their first objection they're not sure how to handle it. It usually doesn't end well.

There are a lot of people out there who should leave the evangelization to evangelists.

 

[fat wee robin]

I Believe that classical christianity is wrong about how God's exact means of saving us ,but I will not be allowed to explain how that is on this site .

 

[fat wee robin]

This may sound like a strange question but this is exactly what it sounds like when evangelists try to explain faith to an unbeliever. All in all I'd have to say the quality of evangelism has been getting dramatically worse over the centuries.

If they are seeking God then it ought to be pretty obvious that they are not willfully rejecting him. There are plenty of other things for a worldly person to be doing like watching a show, going to a party, or literally anything that doesn't bring their deepest loneliness and pain to the surface. A great number are not asking you about God as an intellectual exercise or to somehow "crush" you in debate. They are asking you because they recognize a hole in their lives.

So when you tell an unbeliever "stop rebelling and choose Christ now!" what you are actually telling them is that they need to somehow immediately re-wire all the confusion in their minds or pray to God to re-wire their minds. Then when it doesn't happen they have an anxiety attack. Some will be able to do that but most who are addressed this way will never speak to you again. They don't think they are rebelling. Maybe they are but they are definitely not aware of it.

There is another product of this maligned interaction: the belief that Christianity is an exclusive club. Only those with the natural capacity to immediately believe the gospel will enter heaven. Indeed ONLY this particular variant of human is loved by God at any level whatsoever.

The end result is they either go totally mad and die or give up on seeking Christ and look for some other spiritual path. There is no other way for them to respond when hearing the gospel explained in this manner.

How did this happen? Whatever happened to "Jesus will accept you as you are"?

It is very easy to trust a Jesus who is extending his hand to pull you from the storm.

It is very hard to trust a Jesus who is standing on the boat and asking you "do you believe I will extend my hand to you? If not I'm turning this boat around right now."

Which is it?

In this case the so called christians are commiting a sin .

 

[redleghunter]

This may sound like a strange question but this is exactly what it sounds like when evangelists try to explain faith to an unbeliever. All in all I'd have to say the quality of evangelism has been getting dramatically worse over the centuries.

If they are seeking God then it ought to be pretty obvious that they are not willfully rejecting him. There are plenty of other things for a worldly person to be doing like watching a show, going to a party, or literally anything that doesn't bring their deepest loneliness and pain to the surface. A great number are not asking you about God as an intellectual exercise or to somehow "crush" you in debate. They are asking you because they recognize a hole in their lives.

So when you tell an unbeliever "stop rebelling and choose Christ now!" what you are actually telling them is that they need to somehow immediately re-wire all the confusion in their minds or pray to God to re-wire their minds. Then when it doesn't happen they have an anxiety attack. Some will be able to do that but most who are addressed this way will never speak to you again. They don't think they are rebelling. Maybe they are but they are definitely not aware of it.

There is another product of this maligned interaction: the belief that Christianity is an exclusive club. Only those with the natural capacity to immediately believe the gospel will enter heaven. Indeed ONLY this particular variant of human is loved by God at any level whatsoever.

The end result is they either go totally mad and die or give up on seeking Christ and look for some other spiritual path. There is no other way for them to respond when hearing the gospel explained in this manner.

How did this happen? Whatever happened to "Jesus will accept you as you are"?

It is very easy to trust a Jesus who is extending his hand to pull you from the storm.

It is very hard to trust a Jesus who is standing on the boat and asking you "do you believe I will extend my hand to you? If not I'm turning this boat around right now."

Which is it?

Thank you for sharing this.

Evangelism is not that hard. There is quite an emphasis nowadays on the personal witness of the evangelist. Not knocking that at all that’s very important but in many cases subjective in nature.

Jesus gave us a great example of how to evangelize and also pose the eternal question.

Jesus confronts with the Holiness of the Law. Many get stuck in the weeds about selling possessions and people being rich, yet that was the stumbling block for the rich man. What are ours? Evangelism must take those who hear on a journey up Mt Sinai before the Grace of Mt Zion is understood or revealed.
Matthew 19:16-30
Mark 10:13-16
Luke 18:18-30

Once one is exposed to their stumbling blocks, those things which are more important to them than loving the Son of God Jesus Christ, they can then be posed with the question Jesus posed to His disciples in Matthew 16:15

“But who do you say that I am?”

If they stick around after that, you continue.

 

[sea5763]

I gave up on trying to bring people to Christ because I suck at it. The most I do is try to provide relevant scripture up to people that are thinking about something and let scripture speak for itself and I don’t even do that very often.

I met a group of Christians on campus that told me that even though I already claim to be Christian that I’m going to hell because I said that I’m not sure if push cane to shove if I would endure torture for Christ but that I would like to believe that I would. It wasn’t helpful. They believed that you could judge whether people were going to heaven or hell based on outward appearances. I told them that things aren’t always so obvious and God judges based on the heart not outward appearances but it was like talking to a brick wall. It seemed like they thought the vast majority of people go to hell too. I doubt that because Jesus came to save people not condemn them

 

[DarkSoul999]

I gave up on trying to bring people to Christ because I suck at it. The most I do is try to provide relevant scripture up to people that are thinking about something and let scripture speak for itself and I don’t even do that very often.

I met a group of Christians on campus that told me that even though I already claim to be Christian that I’m going to hell because I said that I’m not sure if push cane to shove if I would endure torture for Christ but that I would like to believe that I would. It wasn’t helpful. They believed that you could judge whether people were going to heaven or hell based on outward appearances. I told them that things aren’t always so obvious and God judges based on the heart not outward appearances but it was like talking to a brick wall. It seemed like they thought the vast majority of people go to hell too. I doubt that because Jesus came to save people not condemn them

College students are mostly still high school mean kids at heart. They want to feel special and exceptional and have absolutely no empathy for anyone else. They became "Christians" to feel better than others because the thought of being average and non-special was unbearable to them.

St. Peter was terrified of crucifixion and denied Jesus three times.....yet he mostly certainly did not go to hell. Instead the experience changed him. Mark 14:30

 

[sea5763]

College students are mostly still high school mean kids at heart. They want to feel special and exceptional and have absolutely no empathy for anyone else. They became "Christians" to feel better than others because the thought of being average and non-special was unbearable to them.

St. Peter was terrified of crucifixion and denied Jesus three times.....yet he mostly certainly did not go to hell. Instead the experience changed him. Mark 14:30

They were still relatively young and perhaps with time will change and perhaps not. It hurt my feelings but at the end of the day I know that they are not God and if God let’s me into heaven they may be there as well. It was weird talking to them because i thought they were pretty judgemental but I used to be judgemental myself so it was like looking into the flip side of mirror. I don’t think I was ever quite to the same level nor would I say stuff like that to peoples faces but I would have condemning thoughts towards people that I felt slighted by.

 

[DarkSoul999]

They were still relatively young and perhaps with time will change and perhaps not. It hurt my feelings but at the end of the day I know that they are not God and if God let’s me into heaven they may be there as well. It was weird talking to them because i thought they were pretty judgemental but I used to be judgemental myself so it was like looking into the flip side of mirror. I don’t think I was ever quite to the same level nor would I say stuff like that to peoples faces but I would have condemning thoughts towards people that I felt slighted by.

People do change over time. Most likely they will be very very different people after 10-20 years working in the real world where their character is truly put to the test.

 

[aiki]

This may sound like a strange question but this is exactly what it sounds like when evangelists try to explain faith to an unbeliever. All in all I'd have to say the quality of evangelism has been getting dramatically worse over the centuries.

Okay. Well, everyone has an opinion...

If they are seeking God then it ought to be pretty obvious that they are not willfully rejecting him. There are plenty of other things for a worldly person to be doing like watching a show, going to a party, or literally anything that doesn't bring their deepest loneliness and pain to the surface. A great number are not asking you about God as an intellectual exercise or to somehow "crush" you in debate. They are asking you because they recognize a hole in their lives.

What is a "great number"? How do arrive confidently at such a number? How do you know how many are sincerely searching for answers and how many are not?

So when you tell an unbeliever "stop rebelling and choose Christ now!" what you are actually telling them is that they need to somehow immediately re-wire all the confusion in their minds or pray to God to re-wire their minds.

I've spoken to many, many searching people over the years and I have never said such a thing to them. But if I had, you'd be right.

There is another product of this maligned interaction: the belief that Christianity is an exclusive club.

Well, it isn't an exclusive club, but being a born-again Christian is an exclusive thing. Only those who trust in Christ as their Saviour and Lord enter into God's kingdom.

Only those with the natural capacity to immediately believe the gospel will enter heaven.

??? Says who? "Natural capacity"? "Immediately"? These are qualifications no thinking Christian puts on coming to faith in Christ.

Indeed ONLY this particular variant of human is loved by God at any level whatsoever.

Again, says who? The Bible doesn't say this.

Colossians 1:21-22
21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled
22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight--

Romans 5:8
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

1 John 4:10
10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

The end result is they either go totally mad and die or give up on seeking Christ and look for some other spiritual path. There is no other way for them to respond when hearing the gospel explained in this manner.

Do you know what a false dichotomy is? What you've written here is a good example of one. But, I agree: the way you've described of sharing the Gospel with people isn't a good one. I have never shared the Gospel this way, however.

How did this happen? Whatever happened to "Jesus will accept you as you are"?

This has never been the message of the Gospel. Christ's death on the cross was unnecessary if God accepts people just as they are. It is because God cannot and will not accept us as the wicked creatures that we are that he made a way of reconciliation for us through Jesus.

It is very easy to trust a Jesus who is extending his hand to pull you from the storm.

But you must first agree that you are in a "storm" that you have caused, and need to be rescued from it, and that Jesus can do that for you. If you don't consent to these things being true, then why would you think you need rescuing and that Jesus is your rescuer?

It is very hard to trust a Jesus who is standing on the boat and asking you "do you believe I will extend my hand to you? If not I'm turning this boat around right now."

It is, I think, more often that those in need of rescuing want to be rescued on their terms rather than on God's.

Jesus holds out his hand but it isn't just a rescue he is accomplishing. That is only a small part of what taking his hand entails. His hand is out to those who wish also to be in fellowship with him, to surrender their lives to him, and through him find a life of joy, fulfillment and peace. It is the idea of forsaking a self-centered life for a Christ-centered life that most people recoil from.

 

[Phil 1:21]

This may sound like a strange question but this is exactly what it sounds like when evangelists try to explain faith to an unbeliever. All in all I'd have to say the quality of evangelism has been getting dramatically worse over the centuries.

If they are seeking God then it ought to be pretty obvious that they are not willfully rejecting him. There are plenty of other things for a worldly person to be doing like watching a show, going to a party, or literally anything that doesn't bring their deepest loneliness and pain to the surface. A great number are not asking you about God as an intellectual exercise or to somehow "crush" you in debate. They are asking you because they recognize a hole in their lives.

So when you tell an unbeliever "stop rebelling and choose Christ now!" what you are actually telling them is that they need to somehow immediately re-wire all the confusion in their minds or pray to God to re-wire their minds. Then when it doesn't happen they have an anxiety attack. Some will be able to do that but most who are addressed this way will never speak to you again. They don't think they are rebelling. Maybe they are but they are definitely not aware of it.

There is another product of this maligned interaction: the belief that Christianity is an exclusive club. Only those with the natural capacity to immediately believe the gospel will enter heaven. Indeed ONLY this particular variant of human is loved by God at any level whatsoever.

The end result is they either go totally mad and die or give up on seeking Christ and look for some other spiritual path. There is no other way for them to respond when hearing the gospel explained in this manner.

How did this happen? Whatever happened to "Jesus will accept you as you are"?

It is very easy to trust a Jesus who is extending his hand to pull you from the storm.

It is very hard to trust a Jesus who is standing on the boat and asking you "do you believe I will extend my hand to you? If not I'm turning this boat around right now."

Which is it?

I grew up in a church and went to 12 years of parochial school. Asking question during religion class got me in a lot of trouble. Very few teachers wanted to get into the weeds and flesh things out. Instead, questions were generally met with rebuke that I was a sinner headed to eternal damnation for daring to question God Almighty (actually, I was questioning the teachers and the church, not God). I was a person searching for understanding in faith, and I was met with hostility.

It's no wonder so very few of the people with whom I went to school are Christians today. Most are agnostic, some are atheists, a few worship satan.

I met a group of Christians on campus that told me that even though I already claim to be Christian that I’m going to hell because I said that I’m not sure if push cane to shove if I would endure torture for Christ but that I would like to believe that I would. It wasn’t helpful. They believed that you could judge whether people were going to heaven or hell based on outward appearances. I told them that things aren’t always so obvious and God judges based on the heart not outward appearances but it was like talking to a brick wall. It seemed like they thought the vast majority of people go to hell too. I doubt that because Jesus came to save people not condemn them

Just Pharisees being Pharisees.

 

[DarkSoul999]

What is a "great number"? How do arrive confidently at such a number? How do you know how many are sincerely searching for answers and how many are not?

It's a common sense thing. Who goes out of their way to sit down with a preacher when you can be doing so many other things that are actually fun? They are there for a reason!

Well, it isn't an exclusive club, but being a born-again Christian is an exclusive thing. Only those who trust in Christ as their Saviour and Lord enter into God's kingdom.

This is where you will confuse basically everyone who is new to the faith. Are Moses, David, and Elijah in hell? Jesus wasn't even born yet...

??? Says who? "Natural capacity"? "Immediately"? These are qualifications no thinking Christian puts on coming to faith in Christ.

Some say it is the holy spirit that automatically imparts faith into a person's mind

Colossians 1:21-22
21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled
22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight--

Romans 5:8
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

1 John 4:10
10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Good luck believing that when you are still being laughed at and called trash by everyone in your life. Only the exceptionally wise and brave and navigate the power of human evil.

Do you know what a false dichotomy is? What you've written here is a good example of one. But, I agree: the way you've described of sharing the Gospel with people isn't a good one. I have never shared the Gospel this way, however.

This is what actually happens in many cases. Perhaps in your area the Christians are more knowledgeable.

This has never been the message of the Gospel. Christ's death on the cross was unnecessary if God accepts people just as they are. It is because God cannot and will not accept us as the wicked creatures that we are that he made a way of reconciliation for us through Jesus.

Again it is easy for miserable people to see their own mistakes. They already hate themselves or they wouldn't be seeking God in the first place! It is nearly impossible for them to believe someone will accept them in any capacity ever.

But you must first agree that you are in a "storm" that you have caused, and need to be rescued from it, and that Jesus can do that for you. If you don't consent to these things being true, then why would you think you need rescuing and that Jesus is your rescuer?

It is easy for any person with any self awareness to recognize where they have gone wrong in life.

It is, I think, more often that those in need of rescuing want to be rescued on their terms rather than on God's.

Jesus holds out his hand but it isn't just a rescue he is accomplishing. That is only a small part of what taking his hand entails. His hand is out to those who wish also to be in fellowship with him, to surrender their lives to him, and through him find a life of joy, fulfillment and peace. It is the idea of forsaking a self-centered life for a Christ-centered life that most people recoil from.

In order for any person to believe this they first have to believe that they are capable of fellowship with ANYBODY. Society is so messed up that the basic concept of trust and fellowship is highly alien.

 

[aiki]

It's a common sense thing. Who goes out of their way to sit down with a preacher when you can be doing so many other things that are actually fun? They are there for a reason!

It's funny how often "common sense" ends up just being personal opinion, without any anchor in actual fact.

This is where you will confuse basically everyone who is new to the faith. Are Moses, David, and Elijah in hell? Jesus wasn't even born yet...

I've led a good number of people to faith in Christ and they weren't at all confused by Jesus being the sole way to God. They certainly weren't puzzling over the fate of Old Testament saints!

Some say it is the holy spirit that automatically imparts faith into a person's mind

God has given to every person the capacity for faith/trust/belief. In fact, no one can go very long without exercising faith in something. We put our faith in doctors, hairdressers, dentists, police, other drivers on the road, the postal service, and so on. Trusting in Christ, though, does involve the Holy Spirit. He convicts, illuminates and persuades a person to faith in Christ. He doesn't, however, force a person to faith. That's Calvinist rubbish I would urge you to ignore.

Good luck believing that when you are still being laughed at and called trash by everyone in your life. Only the exceptionally wise and brave and navigate the power of human evil.

What makes you think I haven't already suffered abuse and ridicule from others for my faith? In fact, I have. Doesn't change the truth of the verses I quoted to you.

Again it is easy for miserable people to see their own mistakes. They already hate themselves or they wouldn't be seeking God in the first place! It is nearly impossible for them to believe someone will accept them in any capacity ever.

Yes, and?

It is easy for any person with any self awareness to recognize where they have gone wrong in life.

Admitting one has "gone wrong" is not the same as acknowledging that one is a wicked sinner who deserves the eternal punishment of Hell. But this is God's declaration about every one of us. Until we believe it and do something about it, we stand in terrible, constant jeopardy.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I gave up on trying to bring people to Christ because I suck at it. The most I do is try to provide relevant scripture up to people that are thinking about something and let scripture speak for itself and I don’t even do that very often.

I met a group of Christians on campus that told me that even though I already claim to be Christian that I’m going to hell because I said that I’m not sure if push cane to shove if I would endure torture for Christ but that I would like to believe that I would. It wasn’t helpful. They believed that you could judge whether people were going to heaven or hell based on outward appearances. I told them that things aren’t always so obvious and God judges based on the heart not outward appearances but it was like talking to a brick wall. It seemed like they thought the vast majority of people go to hell too. I doubt that because Jesus came to save people not condemn them

We all run across people who have bad theology. Just pray for them and don’t let it get to you

 

[DarkSoul999]

It's funny how often "common sense" ends up just being personal opinion, without any anchor in actual fact.

I don't know what you want. Nobody is going to do a research study counting the number of people who visit a preacher for this or that purpose. That would be really hard to do.

I've led a good number of people to faith in Christ and they weren't at all confused by Jesus being the sole way to God. They certainly weren't puzzling over the fate of Old Testament saints!

I'm happy for you and them. So what is the answer to the fate of the Old Testament saints? The gospel makes it clear that you must know the name of Jesus.

God has given to every person the capacity for faith/trust/belief. In fact, no one can go very long without exercising faith in something. We put our faith in doctors, hairdressers, dentists, police, other drivers on the road, the postal service, and so on. Trusting in Christ, though, does involve the Holy Spirit. He convicts, illuminates and persuades a person to faith in Christ. He doesn't, however, force a person to faith. That's Calvinist rubbish I would urge you to ignore.

If a human being betrays your trust you can punish them. If God abandons you then it is time to go completely mad.

What makes you think I haven't already suffered abuse and ridicule from others for my faith? In fact, I have. Doesn't change the truth of the verses I quoted to you.

If you get ridiculed for doing the right thing then it ought to enhance your faith. Being hated for being a pathetic loser is practically evidence that God is not working in your life in any capacity.

Yes, and?

Flawed humans have very low standards. Most of the time if you are not a murderer or a rapist they will probably find something to like about you. If not one flawed human likes you then it is highly unlikely that a perfect God will ever consider you to be a useful servant.

Admitting one has "gone wrong" is not the same as acknowledging that one is a wicked sinner who deserves the eternal punishment of Hell. But this is God's declaration about every one of us. Until we believe it and do something about it, we stand in terrible, constant jeopardy.

People hate themselves so intensely that they end up killing themselves. It is not just to stop the pain. Sometimes they are disgusted by their own existence.

God hates these people even more than they hate themselves which is astonishing.

 

[aiki]

I don't know what you want. Nobody is going to do a research study counting the number of people who visit a preacher for this or that purpose. That would be really hard to do.

What do I want? Well, when a person makes sweeping generalizations, I want them to realize and acknowledge that, when they do, they are making near-blind assumptions rather than communicating actual fact.

I'm happy for you and them. So what is the answer to the fate of the Old Testament saints? The gospel makes it clear that you must know the name of Jesus.

Hebrews 11:13-16
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland.
15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return.
16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.

This passage is speaking of Old Testament saints who did not live to see the promised Messiah but had faith in God's provision of him nonetheless. These saints saw themselves as "pilgrims on earth" headed for a heavenly country wherein God dwells. And God, we are told here, has prepared a heavenly city for them (as He has for all who are saved), the New Jerusalem (Revelation 3:12; Revelation 21:2; Hebrews 12:22), that He will set upon the New Earth. This passage, then, clearly indicates that OT saints will be in heaven and so must be saved. How? Many Christian theologians hold that Christ's atoning sacrifice on the cross extends both forward in time and backward, saving all who had faith in God and His promised Messiah. I see no good reason to think this is not the case. Why, if Christ's saving work at Calvary continues forward to today (and it does), can it not also extend backward through time to save those saints of the past? Clearly, it must or how, then, can these saints spoken of by the writer of Hebrews enter into God's heavenly city prepared only for those who are saved?

If a human being betrays your trust you can punish them. If God abandons you then it is time to go completely mad.

It is never that God abandons us, but that we have abandoned Him.

If you get ridiculed for doing the right thing then it ought to enhance your faith. Being hated for being a pathetic loser is practically evidence that God is not working in your life in any capacity.

But Christ died for the "pathetic loser." How is this not God working for the pathetic loser?

Flawed humans have very low standards. Most of the time if you are not a murderer or a rapist they will probably find something to like about you. If not one flawed human likes you then it is highly unlikely that a perfect God will ever consider you to be a useful servant.

This is a non sequitur. It doesn't follow that because humans may discard one another as useless that God therefore must. He isn't like us.

1 Corinthians 1:26-29
26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;
28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,
29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.

People hate themselves so intensely that they end up killing themselves. It is not just to stop the pain. Sometimes they are disgusted by their own existence.

God hates these people even more than they hate themselves which is astonishing.

Suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness. It is where a person wholly given over to Self often ends up. But, again, it does not follow that because we may hate ourselves that God therefore must hate us far more. The Good News is that this is not the case at all.

John 3:16-17
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

1 John 4:10
10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Titus 3:3-7
3 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another.
4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared,
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I don't know what you want. Nobody is going to do a research study counting the number of people who visit a preacher for this or that purpose. That would be really hard to do.



I'm happy for you and them. So what is the answer to the fate of the Old Testament saints? The gospel makes it clear that you must know the name of Jesus.



If a human being betrays your trust you can punish them. If God abandons you then it is time to go completely mad.



If you get ridiculed for doing the right thing then it ought to enhance your faith. Being hated for being a pathetic loser is practically evidence that God is not working in your life in any capacity.



Flawed humans have very low standards. Most of the time if you are not a murderer or a rapist they will probably find something to like about you. If not one flawed human likes you then it is highly unlikely that a perfect God will ever consider you to be a useful servant.



People hate themselves so intensely that they end up killing themselves. It is not just to stop the pain. Sometimes they are disgusted by their own existence.

God hates these people even more than they hate themselves which is astonishing.

Assigning an attribute like hate to God is a little unsettling.

Can you explain how you think God hates you?

 

[DarkSoul999]

Assigning an attribute like hate to God is a little unsettling.

Can you explain how you think God hates you?

Just when I think I have finally found a purpose in life it all completely explodes. At one point I gave a huge chunk of my life's savings to a disabled man who was about to become homeless because I thought God was calling me to do this. It was a total flop. His life is stilling falling apart and he is slipping deeper into depression because the medical bills keep piling up and more family are walking away. I did absolutely nothing useful and now we are both broke. Part of it was his mistake though. I suggested that he seek out other people for help and ministers to help with the depression but he refused due to lack of trust in others. I was the ONLY person he ever met who stepped up to the plate and yet I still failed at this. The irony is that this also destroyed my trust in others.

I was never supposed to do any of this and now my life is probably over. In addition to that I'm going to lose my job pretty soon and the years of my prime are quickly ticking away. So I lost my calling, my future, and human connections are dwindling away. I'm not going to survive this unless something starts making sense.

If somehow this disaster is part of God's loving plan I might not realize it until it is far too late...

 

[ToBeLoved]

Just when I think I have finally found a purpose in life it all completely explodes. At one point I gave a huge chunk of my life's savings to a disabled man who was about to become homeless because I thought God was calling me to do this. It was a total flop. His life is stilling falling apart and he is slipping deeper into depression because the medical bills keep piling up and more family are walking away. I did absolutely nothing useful and now we are both broke. Part of it was his mistake though. I suggested that he seek out other people for help and ministers to help with the depression but he refused due to lack of trust in others. I was the ONLY person he ever met who stepped up to the plate and yet I still failed at this. The irony is that this also destroyed my trust in others.

I was never supposed to do any of this and now my life is probably over. In addition to that I'm going to lose my job pretty soon and the years of my prime are quickly ticking away. So I lost my calling, my future, and human connections are dwindling away. I'm not going to survive this unless something starts making sense.

If somehow this disaster is part of God's loving plan I might not realize it until it is far too late...

You don’t know that there is not something in God’s plan that you did that.

When we do something for God, He recognizes our sacrifice and the motivation in our hearts that was done for Him.

God’s Word tells us how important our hearts and motivations are. When we pray that we go alone w o anyone else knowing and pray. Not to be seen by men but to be known by God.

You cannot know that your sacrifice did not give that person anything because you don’t know what the outcome would have been w o your help.

Trust that God has the big plan. We sometimes don’t see the results of that plan or even know if our part was huge or small.

Just because the person is still struggling doesn’t mean that you have not been a great asset in his life. Especially if he has a mental illness.

Trust God that he has seen what you have done and is pleased with His child. We all do things for God’s glory. Sometimes we can see the positive outcomes sometimes we cannot see it. That doesn’t lessen our sacrifice and our heart giving God glory based in a positive or what we cannot see as results of or an outcome.

You know your heart and so does God. Well done.

Don’t be so hard on yourself

 

[aiki]

Just when I think I have finally found a purpose in life it all completely explodes. At one point I gave a huge chunk of my life's savings to a disabled man who was about to become homeless because I thought God was calling me to do this.

And how did you determine that it was God's will for you to aid this man as you did?

It was a total flop. His life is stilling falling apart and he is slipping deeper into depression because the medical bills keep piling up and more family are walking away. I did absolutely nothing useful and now we are both broke.

The Bible tells us that few find the narrow road that leads to life. Did God fail, then, in his redemption of humanity? Were His efforts to save sinners from themselves a "flop"? In spite of what Christ did on the cross, people still go to hell. Scripture, though, does not indicate that what Christ did was a failure. In spite of the fact that not everyone ends up in heaven, Christ's atonement for our sin on the cross was an incredible victory! There's a lesson, perhaps, for you in this. Maybe giving to this man wasn't about him getting better but about you being obedient and charitable. It's possible that you are still in the process of learning to trust God whatever happens. We simply can't see all that God is doing. He is working on a level far beyond our comprehension and so we must "walk by faith" with Him, and not by appearances. We know always, however, that in everything in life God intends we should be working toward being more like Jesus. So, how's that going? In this "flop" you've described, are you seeking to be more like Christ?

I suggested that he seek out other people for help and ministers to help with the depression but he refused due to lack of trust in others. I was the ONLY person he ever met who stepped up to the plate and yet I still failed at this.

You have placed yourself entirely too much in the center of this situation. The center is where God should be, not you. God wants you to be a vessel, a tool, in and through whom He can accomplish His - not your - will in the world. You have done what you could do; leave the rest to God and be content with having been faithful in doing what you believed God wanted you to do. The results of your efforts are God's business; He will do whatever He pleases with what you've done. Are you willing for this to be? Or is God obliged to do something really remarkable with your efforts? If you think He is, you misunderstand profoundly what it means to be a "vessel meet for the Master's use."

I was never supposed to do any of this and now my life is probably over.

Whether or not your life is over is God's decision, not yours. Your "job" is to remain in full and humble dependence upon Him. As you do, He will use you as He sees fit. It's what He made you for.

In addition to that I'm going to lose my job pretty soon and the years of my prime are quickly ticking away. So I lost my calling, my future, and human connections are dwindling away.

You have an eternity with God to live after your brief stint on this globe. Why, then, are you fretting about your "prime" years passing by? Your "prime" years are yet to come! And they will be endless in number!

Colossians 3:2-4
2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.