God just let the war break out and go on?

[Photonfanatic]

Hi all, new here. I'm sorry if this is not the appropriate forum for this kind of discussion but its the closest thing I could find here.

My question is this. What did God do when the War between the angels broke out? We are told that the war broke out, but God does not seem to have taken any direct action when it came to it. I can only assume that this was long before the existence of man.

From what I can tell, it seems that he just kinda stood back and let them make their own decisions. It wouldn't surprise me at all if that is what he was doing, as its what he does with us even now. Let them make their own mistakes. Anyone have any idea or thoughts on why he may have taken that stance on the war that broke out in heaven? Since it was heaven, it seems like he would have taken exception to that kind of thing going on there in that place that he dwells and that he had let them dwell. He didn't seem to put a stop to it, it sounds like he just let it go on until its conclusion.

Since he didn't act, what if it had just so happened to be that Satan won that War? What if Satan's angels just so happened to defeat Michael's angels, in whatever strange ways that angels battle? It seems like that could have very well happened. Would he have acted then, to throw Satan and his angels out? The whole situation seems very odd. Thoughts? Opinions?

 

[wayseer]

I find it rather boring.

 

[Photonfanatic]

Ok not really a contribution but whatever. Anyone else?

 

[Chesterton]

My question is this. What did God do when the War between the angels broke out? We are told that the war broke out, but God does not seem to have taken any direct action when it came to it. I can only assume that this was long before the existence of man.

Where did you get the idea that God did not seem to have taken any direct action?

 

[The Lady Kate]

Where did you get the idea that God did not seem to have taken any direct action?

Quite... it may very well be that His direct action was what ended the war.

 

[Archivist]

Since he didn't act, what if it had just so happened to be that Satan won that War? What if Satan's angels just so happened to defeat Michael's angels, in whatever strange ways that angels battle? It seems like that could have very well happened. Would he have acted then, to throw Satan and his angels out? The whole situation seems very odd. Thoughts? Opinions?

If we assume that God was on the side of Michael and his angels--which would seem to be the case--then Satan ahd no chance of victory.

 

[Photonfanatic]

If we assume that God was on the side of Michael and his angels--which would seem to be the case--then Satan ahd no chance of victory.

Well that's also part of what I don't understand. Why on earth would satan think that he could win and try to fight? For some reason, he must have thought that there was at least some chance of success. If not, he simply wouldn't have done it. Just because he was evil doesn't necessarily mean he was stupid.

But back to my original question. Maybe you guys don't understand what I'm asking or something but God did let the fighting go on for some time. Cause it doesn't say "God threw them out" it says "Michael and his angels" which would suggest that he left it up to them. So my question still stands.

 

[guava]

God is on god side. To think of it any other way is idolatry. These angels were not idolatrous which thing raises question about your question. Breaking it up into let it happen versus not let it happen might just not be the way to look at it .. . you think it is because you are unconsciously superimposing your idea of the world on the thing. So it has to do with the description that's in your mind not god . . . .

Something about soldiers…. they don't think in terms of losing. The military is more likely to opt for war while the civilians for peace . Napoleon Bonaparte with 25 thousands soldiers routed two armies simultaneously one numbering 45 thousand and the other 65 thousand. (Check this data though). . David trampled on goliath. . Alexander the great . Genghis Khan. this last guy was amazing . he defeated with 100 thousands men a persin army of 500 thousands they say. . I don't think any of these guys thought about it in terms of losing or winning , infact during the battle you will find that the problem is curbing the young warriors who go nuts cherishing the action and defy the instructions given them. down here and not so long ago the women too wanted to join the fight . they follow the men and they sit and watch the fight and when her man or son is cut down she lets out a joyous shout and she wants to take his weapon and fight in his place . we have to tell her to beat it .and go back. She is happy because her man was a sacrifice for the god of war. This is how they look at it . the fallen warriors are human sacrifices for the god.

Jesus came and took care of that .he is the sacrifice in place of all of the warriors. He sort of redefined the human sacrifice.. he made it sort of harder to sacrifice yourself , much more challenging . Now the good life is to reach out to those no good … and die trying. . now you have to become a one man army. No country, no clan, no tribe , no family no pride, no dignity, no honor, no not even history . just like god is perfect you be perfect, He says. the war in heaven is nothing compared to the war you now have to fight. . . . .

When you kill a criminal what you are doing is offering sacrifice for the god. .you kill him for the sake of the law .. you're judging him according to faith. so when it so happens you want to kill someone for something he did that violated the law the people gather and drums are beaten and incense is burned and criers praise the lord in a big procession. They tell the guy…. According to the law you're being judged , according to your faith you are being judged , according to your people you're being judged …glory be to god . Then the guy head is taken off with the sword .you see.? Its human sacrifice. Then the swords man is quickly gabbed and restrained because the spirit is in him and he wants to chop off other people heads for what they have done. . so we grab him and give him a few smacks so he snaps out of it . ..

The chances are Satan was a soldier. Its possible conclusion you an draw from reading about his history in the bible. Michael too. .so war is the answer. the war you can interpret it as boiling down to the glory of god . The angels fought probably in those terms. Satan got cut down. So it's the law that stands not your question. The problem no one knows the fineries of law . but don't worry , I'm working on it . Once I find out I will let you know. in the meantime we have a war in our hands. go don your battle fatgiue and go to war in Jesus in name instead of talking silly . the good life is calling upon you. you do not know what awaits you . you can not be a hero but you can save a life .

 

[Photonfanatic]

Really hard to determine what that last post means. Anyone else care to take a swing?

 

[JonF]

The bible doesn’t give us the answer to this. The bible isn’t an encyclopedia of spiritual truth. It won’t answer every spiritual question we might pose - it even says this itself! What it will do is give us the answers that are vital to our faith.

 

[Archivist]

Well that's also part of what I don't understand. Why on earth would satan think that he could win and try to fight? For some reason, he must have thought that there was at least some chance of success. If not, he simply wouldn't have done it. Just because he was evil doesn't necessarily mean he was stupid.

If we assume that the sin of Lucifer was pride, then it is possible that Lucifer actually thought that he could win.

But back to my original question. Maybe you guys don't understand what I'm asking or something but God did let the fighting go on for some time.

Actually we don't know how long the war lasted. Scripture doesn't address that. It could have been over in an instant.

Cause it doesn't say "God threw them out" it says "Michael and his angels" which would suggest that he left it up to them. So my question still stands.

Perhaps it was to see which angels were loyal to God. Scripture doesn't address this so we will never know, at least not in this lifetime.

 

[wayseer]

Really hard to determine what that last post means. Anyone else care to take a swing?

No really. If you want to live in fantasy world read LoTR.

 

[guava]

Consider the god given rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. These rights are inalienable. Nobody can take them away from you. You can be denied these rights by the state or tyranny but they can't be taken away from you . these rights are given by god and only god can take them away Consider by contrast the universal declaration of human rights. These are man made rules. Therefore man can change them. The state can take them away or withhold them .but the State can't not take away the rights that are given to you by god..

If you really think about it this an issue to do with the law not war . It is in this context that god seems to intervene. Jesus himself said he came to complete she law

.you thinks of war and question why god didn't stop it because you are scared to fight. You rather sit at home and eat hamburgers and drink soda and watch TV. . But there're men out there who in their old age lament that they haven't been cut down on the battle field and having to die in bed from old age like women and children . And there are Christians out there who walk into extremely contagious diseases infested areas and tend to the fallen. I have seen them with my own eyes . . Brave young men with their trucks getting stuck in mud trying to get through war zones carrying food and medicine .

We are men. Our lot in life is war mayhem and destruction. War and strife is a condition of life. It is good. Without opposition there can be no freedom. . without opposition there can be no choices so no freedom . that's why there was war in heaven. Because there is freedom in heaven. This is great to know.

Jesus himself said for this he was born ..to bear witness to the truth .

.war means choosing a life with heart . you're young .you should be ..i came i saw i conquered . or you can cling to your shields and waste your life .

 

[Photonfanatic]

No really. If you want to live in fantasy world read LoTR.

Hahaha as if you know anything more than anyone else. You've already proved your ignorance so please take it elsewhere. Oh and welcome to my ignore list, first turd I've encountered on this site.

I suppose there's things that we'll just never know...

I still feel sorry for God though, having to watch his perfect kingdom crumble like that. I also feel sorry that he had his right hand man stab him in the back like that. Many people probly don't think about God's feelings but I do. Imagine how he must feel sometimes. Some very sad things have happened to him. Even God feels pain. I'm sure he would have loved it if it had just so happened to be, that neither satan nor man had ever rebelled against him. But it almost seems as though, in the end, those things had to happen for a reason.

 

[Delta77]

hmmm Archivist has alot of wisdom i would say.
all i know about the whole angles and demon thing is that 1/3 of the angles where cast down. That means the good angels outnumber them 2 t 1 ! yay! =D
but you bring up some good points Photonfantic. and when i get up to heaven that will be one of the questions i ask God

 

[Photonfanatic]

I was talking to warseer who just seems to want to drop in and offer nothing but worthless comments.

Not a very Christian attitude.

Consider the god given rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. These rights are inalienable. Nobody can take them away from you. You can be denied these rights by the state or tyranny but they can't be taken away from you . these rights are given by god and only god can take them away Consider by contrast the universal declaration of human rights. These are man made rules. Therefore man can change them. The state can take them away or withhold them .but the State can't not take away the rights that are given to you by god..

If you really think about it this an issue to do with the law not war . It is in this context that god seems to intervene. Jesus himself said he came to complete she law

.you thinks of war and question why god didn't stop it because you are scared to fight. You rather sit at home and eat hamburgers and drink soda and watch TV. . But there're men out there who in their old age lament that they haven't been cut down on the battle field and having to die in bed from old age like women and children . And there are Christians out there who walk into extremely contagious diseases infested areas and tend to the fallen. I have seen them with my own eyes . . Brave young men with their trucks getting stuck in mud trying to get through war zones carrying food and medicine .

We are men. Our lot in life is war mayhem and destruction. War and strife is a condition of life. It is good. Without opposition there can be no freedom. . without opposition there can be no choices so no freedom . that's why there was war in heaven. Because there is freedom in heaven. This is great to know.

Jesus himself said for this he was born ..to bear witness to the truth .

.war means choosing a life with heart . you're young .you should be ..i came i saw i conquered . or you can cling to your shields and waste your life .

I'm having a very hard time trying to understand what you are saying. I take it that english is not your native language so no big deal. If english is your language, then I also have to say that I strongly dislike the spelling and grammar nazi's but this needs serious work.

 

[israelbendavid]

Satan was cast out of heaven after he tempted man, angels did not have a war it was Satan who is the accuser, accused God of not being a worthy leader because he made something that was imperfect(man). but when Jesus lived then died without sin God proved to the devil that man could be perfect.So Jesus gave man a chance with God thru faith and obedience. When Christ went to hell he took the power of death form Satan who introduced it to the world,(though the tempting of man);then Christ returned to heaven. At the time Satan could still enter heaven; was placed in chains for a thousand years(while Christ Kingdom was established Satan could not interfere) after Christ's victory over the powers and pricipalities of the world(including death and Satan).

 

[guava]

Photon,

You hurt my feelings but I forgive you.

English he says! Not long ago they insisted that treatise be written in French.

What defines us as creation of god, what sets us apart from the behemas , what makes us distinct from all other things is our freedom . The laws of freedom that operate in the intelligible realm show that we are morally free beings.in effect the freedom I'm talking about goes beyond causation such as beyond the natural order of things .

I think you can make a strong case based on the bible against any accusation that god imposes . In the incident with the gentile woman Jesus says to the woman that he was sent to the Jews. That is correct because it was the Jews who kept crying out messiah come, messiah please come. The glory of god itself explains that he has heard his people cry out in distress. Jesus speaks of his flock. God speaks of his people. These are grounds for intervention. Without those grounds god would be imposing .

I think it works something like that and not only that but it goes beyond far beyond because that freedom itself is not even constrained by the causal order of things as in through that freedom expressed by the man of faith who can actually see things and when he sees things as they really are he sees that there is more mystery than can be found in a reason and philosophy and science.

The glory of god works in mysterious ways through that god given freedom without imposing on it . For example you chose for yourself the screen name photon. .light has the sort of freedom that boggles the mind. It has too much free1dom. Now they are saying that they can use what is called entangled photons to transfer info faster than speed of light and to actually achieve teleportation. It seems we are learning more and more as to what was entailed when god said let there be light . But you see you're clueless. No one is imposing on your state of cluelessness ( that's a new English word. Add it to the English dictionary)

wait let me see if i can relate to you better . you watch star trek, right? remember that bit about non interference with lower life forms . well you are lower life form.the glory of god is higher life form only it is so high you do not count. It's like the Q. can rescind time, unhappen ( new English word) things , wipe the slate clean , all sorts of things and that's just talking the glory of god and not god . so god let it happen and god didn't let it happen , all of that is nonesense , just pure unadulterated noneesne ( wrongly speled english word) .

 

[ittarter]

Hahaha as if you know anything more than anyone else. You've already proved your ignorance so please take it elsewhere. Oh and welcome to my ignore list, first turd I've encountered on this site.

I suppose there's things that we'll just never know...

Wayseer was simply pointing out that a discussion about the war of the angels is merely an exercise of the imagination.

The so-called war is an attempt to explain how evil could possibly come into existence, in a world where (according to the Christian faith) God is absolutely sovereign and absolutely good. However, the Bible actually tells us that disobedience to God originated in the garden of Eden, and no primordial angelic war is ever recounted anywhere in scripture. The text is clear that prior to this event there was nothing evil in existence. It is only in Gen. 6 that the secondary story is told, of the "evil angels" procreating with the human race and producing some hybrid species that is to blame for evil.

In truth, I don't see the second story as having a great deal of application any more -- and I don't see ANY value in discussing the tactical movements of Satan's army versus God's, in terms of a hypothetical "first rebellion" -- so we're left with what is really the only legitimate story of the rise of evil, namely, the eating of the forbidden fruit. THAT is the first rebellion.

 

[The Lady Kate]

Consider the god given rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. These rights are inalienable. Nobody can take them away from you. You can be denied these rights by the state or tyranny but they can't be taken away from you . these rights are given by god and only god can take them away Consider by contrast the universal declaration of human rights. These are man made rules. Therefore man can change them. The state can take them away or withhold them .but the State can't not take away the rights that are given to you by god..

Just a point... the only reason anyone claims those rights are "God-given" or "inalienable" is because man said so.