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"God" is not a reasonable response to any question requiring evidence

J

Jazer

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I need several peer-reviewed sources from legitimate scientific journals to confirm these claims: "the MtDNA confirms who the Clam Mother is for the Hebrew People. We know where she lived and when she lived. Science and the Bible both say Even lived in the same place at the same time"

If you say this is true, you should provide rock-solid evidence for it.
I gave that to you, I have put that information out on this board many times. Maybe you are new and did not see that I put that information up again and again. We are talking about the J2B3 Halpogroup. Now they may change this at anytime. They may find a new mutation at any time. But currently this is the most recent information we have from Science. You can get what you need from Wiki.

Around 45,000 years before present, a mutation took place in the DNA of a woman who lived in the Near East or Caucasus. Further mutations took place in the J line which can be identified as J1a1 (27,000 yrs ago), J2a (19,000 yrs ago), J2b2 (16,000 years ago), J2b3 (5,800 yrs ago), etc. Haplogroup J (along with ‘T’) is associated with the spread of farming and herding in Europe during the Neolithic Era (8,000-10,000 yrs ago).Wiki

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J1
Main article: Haplogroup J1 (Y-DNA)
ISOGG states that J1 originated in the Middle East. It is found in parts of the Near East, and North Africa, with a sparse distribution in the southern Mediterranean flank of Europe, and in Ethiopia. But not all studies agree on the point of origin. The Levant has been proposed but a 2010 study concluded that the haplogroup had a more Northern origin.[citation needed] The origin of J1c3 is likely in the more northerly populations and then spreads southward into the Arabian Peninsula. The high YSTR variance of J1c3 in Turks and Syrians supports the inference of an origin of J1c3 in nearby eastern Anatolia. Moreover, the network analysis of J1c3 haplotypes shows that some of the populations with low diversity, such as Bedouins from Israel, Qatar, Sudan and UAE, are tightly clustered near high-frequency haplotypes suggesting founder effects with star burst expansion in the Arabian Desert. " [12] Haplogroup J1, defined by the 267 marker is most frequent in the Arabian Peninsula Yemen(76%),[13] Saudi (64%),[14] Qatar (58%),[15] and Dagestan (56%).[8] J1 is generally frequent amongst Arab Bedouins (62%.[16] , Ashkenazi Jews (14-20%),[17] North Sudan (45%, Khartoum 74%),[18] Algeria (35%),[17] Iraq (33%),[17] Tunisia (31%),[19] Syria (30%), Egypt (20%),[20] and the Sinai Peninsula. The frequency of Haplogroup J1 collapses suddenly at the borders of Arabic speaking countries with mainly non-Arabic speaking countries, such as Turkey (9%), Iran (11%).[1][9] It is also highly frequent among Jews, especially the Kohanim line (46%) [1] [21] .

[edit]J2
Main article: Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)
Haplogroup J2 is found in the highest concentrations in the Caucasus and the Fertile Crescent and is found throughout the Mediterranean (including the Italian, Balkan, Anatolian and Iberian peninsulas and North Africa).[22]

The highest ever reported concentration of J2 was 72% in Northeastern Georgia.[23] Other high reports include Ingush 32%,[23] Cypriots 30-37% (Capelli 2005), Lebanese 30% (Wells et al. 2001), Iraqis 29.7% (Sanchez et al. 2005), Syrians 22.5%[citation needed], Kurds 24%-28%, Iranians 23%,[24] Ashkenazi Jews 24%, Palestinian Arabs 16.8%-25%, Sephardic Jews 29%[2] and North Indian Shia Muslims 18%,[1] Chechens 26%, Balkars 24%, Yaghnobis 32%, Armenians 21-24%, and Azerbaijanis 24%-48%.

Consistent with its Middle Eastern extent, J2 also includes the Cohen Modal Haplotype. WIKI

More recent research, using a larger number of Y-STR markers to gain higher resolution more specific genetic signatures, has indicated that about half of contemporary Jewish Kohanim, who share Y-chromosomal haplogroup J1c3 (also called J-P58), do indeed appear to be very closely related. A further approximately 15% of Kohanim fall into a second distinct group, sharing a different but similarly tightly related ancestry. This second group fall under haplogroup J2a (J-M410). A number of other smaller lineage groups are also observed. Only one of these haplogroups could indicate ancestry from Aaron.

The J1e and J2a possible Cohen clusters (only one of them could indicate ancestry from Aaron), when including those tested who are of Sephardi background, have been estimated as descending from most recent common ancestors living 3,200 ± 1,100 and 4,200 ± 1,300 years ago respectively. Ashkenazis only have been estimated by the same article as descending from most recent common ancestors living 2,400 ± 800 and 3,800 ± 1,200 years ago respectively.[1] WIKI

If WIKI is to complicated try some of these links: The DNA Chain of Tradition
The Discovery of the "Cohen Gene" http://www.cohen-levi.org/jewish_genes_and_genealogy/the_dna_chain_of_tradition.htm

The fascinating story of how DNA studies confirm an ancient biblical tradition. http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48936742.html
The_Cohanim_-_DNA_Connection_(medium)_(english).gif
 
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J

Jazer

Guest
Sorry, this doesn't confirm anything
It looks like denial is more then a river in Egypt.
So you are going to call this a stalemate.
I can not prove anything and you can not prove anything.

Fine with me because you have failed to show that the Bible is not or can not be true.

J2b3 (5,800 yrs ago), etc. Haplogroup J is associated
with the spread of farming and herding in Europe
during the Neolithic Era (8,000-10,000 yrs ago).
Wiki

Just remember the dates line up 6,000 years ago.
Also the location lines up in the Middle East.
We call this a match. Adam was a farmer.
Science confirms this as the start of farming.

Adam had two sons, one was a farmer, the other was a herder.
Cain killed Able, and went to another place to live after that.
What part of the spread of farming and herding do you not see?

We know that Cain built a “city” in the land of Nod.
This is the beginning of Civilization. The first city was Jericho.
We read a lot of stories about the city of Jericho in the Bible.
 
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Loudmouth

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J2b3 (5,800 yrs ago), etc. Haplogroup J is associated
with the spread of farming and herding in Europe
during the Neolithic Era (8,000-10,000 yrs ago).

Correct so far. This was a population that did quite well for itself. However, the J2b3 haplotype does not indicate that the entire population was founded by a single male.

Just remember the dates line up 6,000 years ago.
Also the location lines up in the Middle East.
We call this a match. Adam was a farmer.

Wow, the mythology from a group of farmers and shepherds includes farmers and shepherds. Stunning.


Adam had two sons, one was a farmer, the other was a herder.
Cain killed Able, and went to another place to live after that.
What part of the spread of farming and herding do you not see?

What we don't see is evidence that supports these claims.

We know that Cain built a “city” in the land of Nod.
This is the beginning of Civilization. The first city was Jericho.

Again, we know no such thing. It is mythology.
 
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Loudmouth

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We are talking about the J2B3 Halpogroup. Now they may change this at anytime.

What about it, John?

More recent research, using a larger number of Y-STR markers to gain higher resolution more specific genetic signatures, has indicated that about half of contemporary Jewish Kohanim, who share Y-chromosomal haplogroup J1c3 (also called J-P58), do indeed appear to be very closely related.

This is produced by a population that inbreeds (with distant cousins, mind you) much more often than it outbreeds with another population. It does not indicate that the population was founded by a single male or a single female.
 
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J

Jazer

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So just when did the Chinese get to China and when did they start to look like Chinese?
I have nothing from the Bible on that. So whatever science says. The tradition in China is that there are 9 women that people are descended from. Depending on what city they come from. So they say there are nine distinct types of women in China today. My wife worked in Hong Kong for 9 years where they say the women are more like a tiger. Bejing women and Shanghi women would be very different.
 
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Loudmouth

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I have nothing from the Bible on that. So whatever science says. The tradition in China is that there are 9 women that people are descended from. Depending on what city they come from. So they say there are nine distinct types of women in China today. My wife worked in Hong Kong for 9 years where they say the women are more like a tiger. Bejing women and Shanghi women would be very different.

That may be the tradition, but the facts are that the chinese are descended from thousands of woman, not nine.

Let's use a hypothetical situtation to help clear this up. Let's say that we took 100,000 random humans and threw them on a starship that moved to a distant planet. For the next 100,000 years their population goes up and down, but it never gets smaller than 50,000 and never bigger than 200,000. A geneticist wonders how those star travellers have fared, so he sets out and travels to the distant planet. Upon arriving he randomly sequences the Y-chromosome and mitochondria from 1,000 people. He finds that these two genetic units coalesce to a single common ancestor who lived 50,000 years before the present. However, their records clearly show that the population had never fallen to a single mating pair, much less below 50,000 people. In fact, they have clear records showing that they all descended from those original 100,000 random people from Earth. So how can this be?
 
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quatona

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I am saying that science supports the literal statements found in Genesis, as Pangea is an example of "all the waters under heaven collected into one place," i.e. The Panthallassic Ocean.

Assuming for a moment that your analysis is correct - what does that have to do with my post that you quoted? :confused:
 
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Loudmouth

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True as that may be, we must conclude then that some one superior to those men TOLD them.

Why don't you ask some creationists about that. I am sure that it will be an eye opener.

Also, have you ever heard of Texas Sharpshooting? You should look into it.
 
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C

cupid dave

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Just so you know "Out of Africa" comes from the 1985 movie. So the theory can not have been around for longer then 25 years. But that is long enough that they theory should be in the texts books.

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Can I suggest the Book: "The Seven Daughters of Eve". That is the book I read and I really enjoyed reading that book. Very interesting. But there are others book on the same subject. That you can get for less then five bucks used.

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I have been referring to the "Out-of-Africa" Hypothesis established by Paleontologists:


www. anthro.palomar.edu/homo2/mod_homo_4.htm
The <b>replacement model of Christopher Stringer</b> and Peter Andrews:
This hypothesis is also referred to as the "out of Africa", "Noah's ark" and "African replacement" model.

All other lines of humans that had descended from Homo erectus presumably became extinct.[bless and do not curse] From this view, the regional anatomical differences that we see among humans today are recent developments--evolving mostly in the last 40,000 years.
 
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H

Huram Abi

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I have been referring to the "Out-of-Africa" Hypothesis established by Paleontologists:


www. anthro.palomar.edu/homo2/mod_homo_4.htm
The <b>replacement model of Christopher Stringer</b> and Peter Andrews:
This hypothesis is also referred to as the "out of Africa", "Noah's ark" and "African replacement" model.

All other lines of humans that had descended from Homo erectus presumably became extinct.[bless and do not curse] From this view, the regional anatomical differences that we see among humans today are recent developments--evolving mostly in the last 40,000 years.


Only you refer to it as the "Noah's Ark" model.
 
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J

Jazer

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All other lines of humans that had descended from Homo erectus presumably became extinct.[bless and do not curse] From this view, the regional anatomical differences that we see among humans today are recent developments--evolving mostly in the last 40,000 years.
So how many people were alive 40,000 years ago? I live in a city of 60,000 people and it is a pretty big city. I do not see any ruins of cities that big.
 
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