"God" is not a reasonable response to any question requiring evidence

[jay1]

Well I suppose if you're saying aborigines are 60000 years old then at least you're not a new earth creationist.

The bible or religion does not own morality and if you are only moral because you are being watched by god, then I would argue that is very shoddy morality indeed.

An example of poor morality in the bible would be sodom and gamorrah. I can't remember the name but, giving up your daughters to be raped. Not very moral!

 

[AV1611VET]

But since we're chatting go ahead. Tell me how your god can move a single pebble.

By ordering science to take a hike.

 

[AV1611VET]

... if you are only moral because you are being watched by god, then I would argue that is very shoddy morality indeed.

Maybe you need to learn the proper definition of 'moral' -- specifically the difference between 'moral' and 'ethical'?

Moral = one's relation to God; it is a vertical relationship.
Ethical = one's relation to his fellow man; it is a horizontal relationship.

One cannot then, be moral if there is no god 'watching them'.

 

[jay1]

Maybe you need to learn the proper definition of 'moral' -- specifically the difference between 'moral' and 'ethical'?

Moral = one's relation to God; it is a vertical relationship.
Ethical = one's relation to his fellow man; it is a horizontal relationship.

"One cannot then, be moral if there is no god 'watching them'."[/quote]

By that rationale a serial killer is moral if they don't kill while someone is watching

 

[jay1]

New to forums, sorry messed up quoting.

Moral:definition: principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behaviour: Oxford English Dictionary

Where is god mentioned? The bible is not a dictionary

 

[AV1611VET]

By that rationale a serial killer is moral if they don't kill while someone is watching

-- What???

Most people I deal with here try so hard not to understand, they succeed; but this is off the charts.

 

[AV1611VET]

The bible is not a dictionary

Good -- then the diction can take a hike.

QV my signature, please.

 

[British Bulldog]

Maybe you need to learn the proper definition of 'moral' -- specifically the difference between 'moral' and 'ethical'?

Moral = one's relation to God; it is a vertical relationship.
Ethical = one's relation to his fellow man; it is a horizontal relationship.

One cannot then, be moral if there is no god 'watching them'.

Just curious, have you argued these definitions before or are you posting them in all innocence?

 

[AV1611VET]

Just curious, have you argued these definitions before or are you posting them in all innocence?

Yes:

You're confusing "morality" with "ethics."

In Christianity:

• Morals deals with one's relationship to God, and is vertical.
• Ethics deals with one's relationship to another, and is horizontal.

Both are contained in the Ten Commandments, and both are summed up by Jesus:

[bible]Luke 10:27[/bible]

 

[jay1]

if you only behave morally because you are being watched. is the contrary to that not that you can behave immorally if you are not being watched?

e.g. Serial killer not killing while there are witnesses

Should you not be behaving morally just because of right and wrong as opposed to who is watching?

 

[British Bulldog]

Yes:

I mean before this thread?

 

[AV1611VET]

I mean before this thread?

Yes, I said.

Did you read the date?

15th November 2007

 

[British Bulldog]

Yes, I said.

Did you read the date?

15th November 2007

No I didn't. OK, interesting.

 

[Jazer]

In Christianity:

• Morals deals with one's relationship to God, and is vertical.
• Ethics deals with one's relationship to another, and is horizontal.

So do you believe the atonement was two fold.
That Jesus died to reconcile us with the Father,
but also to reconcile us with each other?

 

[AV1611VET]

So do you believe the atonement was two fold.
That Jesus died to reconcile us with the Father,
but also to reconcile us with each other?

Sounds good to me --

 

[Jazer]

By ordering science to take a hike.

This is a two edged sword. God made the laws that science tells us about. Does this mean we can not question science and their ability to tell us about the Natural Laws that God Created. I wonder how we can have any faith at all in science when people who claim to represent science attack religion as much as they do.

"Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world." James 1:27

NIV keep oneself from being polluted
LIV refusing to let the world corrupt you
KJV to keep himself unspotted from the world
NAS keep oneself unstained by the world.

 

[AV1611VET]

This is a two edged sword. God made the laws that science tells us about. Does this mean we can not question science and their ability to tell us about the Natural Laws that God Created. I wonder how we can have any faith at all in science when people who claim to represent science attack religion as much as they do.

Indeed -- that's why I came up with a set of standards that filters the wheat from the tares.

 

[SkyWriting]

..I could go on for pages and pages but the point is that the Bible is outdated cust...

And yet Americans follow most all it's rules to this very day.
How odd a standard we live.

 

[someguy14]

As for doing good, turns out I can as an atheist, and without the annoying proselytizing.

A mere man, taking credit for an eternal truth, "goodness".
Isn't it logical, to rather give credit to The Maker of goodness itself, instead of one mere man trying
to take credit for it, when he/she is simply using what already is?

1 Corinthians 4:7
For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

"Science will win, because it always has, because it works." -Stephen Hawking

If "science" is a definition from man, of a pursuit for the truth, what makes you to differ from one man to another,
besides the fact that you do not want to give credit to The Maker of truth, God. We are not so different, you and me,
we both desire The Truth. I give credit to The Maker of it, God, and you are seeking The One to give credit to.

Matthew 7:7
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Originally Posted by someguy14
If God is all Good, than you have nothing to worry about.

Which god/s are you referring to, because the god/s described in the OT is reprehensible.

The Maker of All Goodness, God. Blameless. Perfect. Worthy of all our praise and thanks.

 

[cupid dave]

So do you believe the atonement was two fold.
That Jesus died to reconcile us with the Father,
but also to reconcile us with each other?

Jesus died in the name of Truth as did Martin Luther King.

We remember Jesus as the first born son of God to mark this sacrifice in the name of Truth, but men have died since for nthe same kind of reason.

Jesus demonstrated that Truth will always rise again among us, because Truth is our savior in this harsh Reality that is both friend and foe to us, as a species.