"God" is not a reasonable response to any question requiring evidence

someguy14 · Nov 15, 2011

Put Up or Shut Up said:
So we're back to, before you can believe in God you must first believe in God.

Only the indoctrinated the weak or the needy need apply, that leaves a whole lot of people out in the cold.

Even scientists must test a theory in order to get a result.
Test it. Don't be afraid. If God is all Good, than you have nothing to worry about.

Indoctrinated?
These are actual encounters with actual people going through struggles that are not uncommon to you and me.
You will be surprised how weak and needy you actually are.

If you are truely seeking the truth and testing each and every way, you will be surprised how much each one that actually believes has tested the Word of God, thoroughly. It always comes to the result, that God is truth. Like I have posted, it is personal and some may not express in detail some of the trials they have faced and are facing, confronting this battle head on. You have been through tough times, perhaps, so you can relate. Instead of hardening your heart and caving to letting wicked "be", you resist it and overcome it with good. Fighting that battle against starving africans.

One thing that is tested and found to be true. You can never go wrong, doing good.
God is all the good friend.

someguy14 · Nov 15, 2011

Phred said:
"God" is not a reasonable response to any question requiring evidence

God is Love, and Love is evidence.

1 John 4:8
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

lindart · Nov 15, 2011

Phred said:
No aboriginal man ever came out of the jungle and told US about God.

Once again, do your research. As I have said in my previous post, all cultures in all lands for all times have acknowledged the existence of God.

If you want to be flippant and pull things out of the air, it makes your argument well, hot air.

For the sake of those who take this debate about the existence of God seriously, I will gladly share what I understand of the aboriginals.

The aboriginals are said to have been in existence for 60,000 years. Their culture is for the most part, untainted by outside influences. Furthermore, their traditions and ceremonies are totally based. upon their oral history and beliefs. While it is known that they worship many gods they ascribe to a fundamental understanding of Creation God/gods. They revere elements of nature as of from God but do not worship these elements as God. They hold to the belief of the spirit within the person that leaves upon death. Their belief in afterlife is varied as to where the spirit 'goes' with some embracing reincarnation. Their ceremonies are communal and celebrate the person's spirit as well as mourning their passing.

It goes without saying, that the expressions of beliefs in God our Creator of all is as varied as the cultures that embrace this. But God in His infinite wisdom and goodness has placed in every man's heart the desire to seek and know Him. And the bible clearly says that ...

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. John1:1-2

It is easy to think of the written Word, which is our bible. But before the Word was written, the Word was in the beginning with all creation touching the hearts of all men so that no man is without excuse. All praise be to God our Father!

jay1 · Nov 15, 2011

Every society, including aboriginals, has.tried to explain why they are here. Attributing it to a higher power has also happened in every society but that proves nothing.

Would a society that has had no contact with the outside world not look at things such as television as something that their god must have created?

Ignorance in the absence of any other idea is excusable, but to come from a modern society and still come up with the same ignorant answer when there are other options that make more sense is wanton ignorance. There is no excuse for that.

God is an easy answer to a difficult question. The world has moved on. Try to keep up.

FrenchyBearpaw · Nov 15, 2011

someguy14 said:
If God is all Good, than you have nothing to worry about.

Which god/s are you referring to, because the god/s described in the OT is reprehensible.

As for doing good, turns out I can as an atheist, and without the annoying proselytizing.

Jazer · Nov 15, 2011

jay1 said:
Would a society that has had no contact with the outside world not look at things such as television as something that their god must have created?

I saw that movie: "The Gods must be crazy" right?

No they would not look at television as something that "their god must have created". There are very few isolated villages left in the third world. But I just saw a women on Oprah that dreamed about going to school. When she got her chance she keep going and going until she got a Phd. Now she is going to go back to her little village and set up a school system for the people from her remote little area. That is a big problem getting an education to these people. I remember a movie from China. They had a village that was so remote that they could not find a teacher. So the elder in the town took a girl that was only two years older then the other students and he made her the teacher. That was pretty much the best that they could do.

You can not really look at people as being primitive so much as you can look at them as being uneducated. Then it has a lot to do with opportunity. My wife grew up in a third world nation and they had to make a lot of sacrifices in order for them to get an education. She still sacrifices herself to help pay for the education of the young people. To give them an opportunity and a chance at life. They say American is the land of opportunity. In some places an opportunity is rare, few and far inbetween.

lindart · Nov 15, 2011

jay1 said:
Every society, including aboriginals, has.tried to explain why they are here. Attributing it to a higher power has also happened in every society but that proves nothing.

Would a society that has had no contact with the outside world not look at things such as television as something that their god must have created?

Ignorance in the absence of any other idea is excusable, but to come from a modern society and still come up with the same ignorant answer when there are other options that make more sense is wanton ignorance. There is no excuse for that.

God is an easy answer to a difficult question. The world has moved on. Try to keep up.

Let's talk about wanton ignorance. Do you have a degree in radiation physics? Have you studied the sciences in depth within the halls of academia with atheistic and non atheistic professors? Have you taken the time to truly contemtplate the immense complexities within one single atom as akin to that found within the whole universe? Have you truly given any thought why the world and the universe has order rather than randomosity?
Some people are very good scientists, take Daryl Hawkins for one. He does what scientists are trained to do - study and observe God's handiwork without acknowledging the Author. If he did acknowledge God, then that would disqualify him as a scientist. So don't look to scientists to explain God to you. God is already there in your heart. Don't deny Him.

Jazer · Nov 15, 2011

FrenchyBearpaw said:
As for doing good, turns out I can as an atheist, and without the annoying proselytizing.

Where does an atheist go to learn how to be good? Where is this "annoying proselytizing"? I do not see anyone trying to convert you to whatever church they attend?

Matthew 21 15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves."

Jazer · Nov 15, 2011

lindart said:
Let's talk about wanton ignorance. Do you have a degree in radiation physics?

I do not think that having a degree in "ratiation physics" makes you ignorant in and of itself. What I have noticed is that there are people who put so much time and effort into getting that degree that there are a lot of other areas that they are very ignorant in. For example there are people that come here and do not even have a pre school level of understanding of the Bible. Yet they may have an advanced degree in one small area of science. That tends to make them out of balance with themselves. To much of one kind of thinking and not enough of the other is not good.

jay1 · Nov 15, 2011

My point was that god is an easy answer. So easy that most civilisations came up with It.

Does the person who posted about the aboriginals really believe that a civilisation that had not yet figured out the use of metals could answer the question of the origin of the universe?

Jazer · Nov 15, 2011

Put Up or Shut Up said:
So every religion man has ever come up with is true after all.

About as true as saying that my mom found me in the pumpkin patch and that must be why I like pumpkin pie so much. Or that the stork must have dropped me there by accident. My mom had a degree in bacterology. Do you really think people take that stuff serious? Or is it perhaps just stories they repeat in good fun so we can all have a laugh. Perhaps you take stuff more serious then you should. Not everything is a life or death situation.

jay1 · Nov 15, 2011

I don't have a degree in radiation physics. If I wanted to learn about though I wouldn't look in a 2000 year old book.
An understanding of the bible is not a prerequisite.to a fulfilling life. In fact if you followed the bible to the letter you would.be in jail. After putting to death all the people the bible tells you.to.

The bible is a terrible example of.morality .

Jazer · Nov 15, 2011

jay1 said:
Does the person who posted about the aboriginals really believe that a civilisation that had not yet figured out the use of metals could answer the question of the origin of the universe?

Wait, I know a women that is pure native american Indian that is a nurse and a supervisor in a nursing home. Yet when I was growing up we could still find stone arrow heads from the Indians that lived in this area. So are you trying to say there is a difference between someone from a primitive culture and a person that does not come from a primitive culture?

Jazer · Nov 15, 2011

jay1 said:
An understanding of the bible is not a prerequisite to a fulfilling life.

I am not so sure about that. A understanding of the Bible does seem to be a prerequisite to eternal life.

In fact if you followed the bible to the letter you would be in jail. After putting to death all the people the bible tells you to.

Do you mean the law of Moses? Very few people understand the law of Moses. You maybe right though. Under the law perhaps none of us would be here. We may all have done something worthy of death. But as Jesus said: Let those who are without sin cast the first stone. No one is qualified to put anyone else to death. Unless you think that is what war is all about.

The bible is a terrible example of morality.

Can you give me an example of where you think the Bible is a "terrible example of morality"? We would not know morality if it were not for the Bible. Or do you feel there is a better example of morality somewhere else?

Tinker Grey · Nov 15, 2011

Jazer said:
I am not so sure about that. A understanding of the Bible does seem to be a prerequisite to eternal life.

Are you saved by grace or by works? (If a combo, feel free to elaborate.)

If understanding the Bible is a prerequisite to eternal life, do dying children have no hope? Down Syndrome people?

If there is grace, then knowing right doctrine is unimportant. If correct belief is a required, then works are required.

I'd think it'd be a poor god that would send a devoted believer to hell for failing to distinguish between homoousios and homoiousios.

roach · Nov 15, 2011

lindart said:
Let's talk about wanton ignorance. Do you have a degree in radiation physics? Have you studied the sciences in depth within the halls of academia with atheistic and non atheistic professors? Have you taken the time to truly contemtplate the immense complexities within one single atom as akin to that found within the whole universe? Have you truly given any thought why the world and the universe has order rather than randomosity?
Some people are very good scientists, take Daryl Hawkins for one. He does what scientists are trained to do - study and observe God's handiwork without acknowledging the Author. If he did acknowledge God, then that would disqualify him as a scientist. So don't look to scientists to explain God to you. God is already there in your heart. Don't deny Him.

Who's daryl hawkins? There are plenty of good scientists who are religious but one thing doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the other. And if this daryl guy really is a good scientist, I guarantee he doesn't take religious claims on faith when they conflict with scientific knowledge. Any good religious scientist make religion conform to evidence. It's a good policy, all religious people should give it a go. just a thought....

Phred · Nov 15, 2011

lindart said:
Once again, do your research. As I have said in my previous post, all cultures in all lands for all times have acknowledged the existence of God.

But you offer no proof, no evidence. Just your claims. Which are, as you like to point out, hot air.

If you want to be flippant and pull things out of the air, it makes your argument well, hot air.

I'm not flippant or pulling things out of the air. I'm speaking the truth. You just don't recognize it because I don't capitalize it.

For the sake of those who take this debate about the existence of God seriously, I will gladly share what I understand of the aboriginals.

The word "aboriginal" and the people, to whom you are refering "aborigines" are two different things. Perhaps it is YOU who should do some research.

The aboriginals are said to have been in existence for 60,000 years. Their culture is for the most part, untainted by outside influences. Furthermore, their traditions and ceremonies are totally based. upon their oral history and beliefs. While it is known that they worship many gods they ascribe to a fundamental understanding of Creation God/gods. They revere elements of nature as of from God but do not worship these elements as God. They hold to the belief of the spirit within the person that leaves upon death. Their belief in afterlife is varied as to where the spirit 'goes' with some embracing reincarnation. Their ceremonies are communal and celebrate the person's spirit as well as mourning their passing.

Which is funny since nobody is talking about aborigines and you don't know the difference.

It goes without saying, that the expressions of beliefs in God our Creator of all is as varied as the cultures that embrace this.

Except you're wrong. Just because a culture expresses a belief in a god doesn't mean it's the same as your god.

But God in His infinite wisdom and goodness has placed in every man's heart the desire to seek and know Him.

Nope.

roach · Nov 15, 2011

Jazer said:
Can you give me an example of where you think the Bible is a "terrible example of morality"? We would not know morality if it were not for the Bible. Or do you feel there is a better example of morality somewhere else?

It's impossible to fit that many pages into a little box like this.

and why are you trying to hijack the word 'morality'? We wouldn't know 'christian morality' if it were not for the bible, but really... morality?? Look it up; it's a word and there's a whole list of em in a book called a 'dictionary'. Gotta know those before you can start changing their meanings; or even read a bible!

Phred · Nov 15, 2011

lindart said:
Let's talk about wanton ignorance. Do you have a degree in radiation physics? Have you studied the sciences in depth within the halls of academia with atheistic and non atheistic professors? Have you taken the time to truly contemtplate the immense complexities within one single atom as akin to that found within the whole universe? Have you truly given any thought why the world and the universe has order rather than randomosity?
Some people are very good scientists, take Daryl Hawkins for one. He does what scientists are trained to do - study and observe God's handiwork without acknowledging the Author. If he did acknowledge God, then that would disqualify him as a scientist. So don't look to scientists to explain God to you. God is already there in your heart. Don't deny Him.

Yes, let's talk about the ignorance of what you state. Let's talk about your ignorance. You raised the topic so let's chat.

Let's start with "Daryl Hawkins". I'm unfamiliar with such a person. Do you mean Richard Dawkins? Would you say it's incredibly ignorant to not even know the name of the person you're talking about? I would.

But let's move on. You acknowledge an author. You say it's God. You made up a word there by the way... "randomosity"... there is no such word. But have you considered HOW did you god go about putting things in this "order" that you say is there? And when you say that the world and the universe is in order, what do you mean? I see no order in the world. It is random. I see no order in the universe. It too is random. But let's just say, for the sake of argument... there is "order". HOW did your invisible deity make it ordered? Not the platitudes of "he spoke it so" but how did it actually happen. Forget order, how does your god move a single rock? HOW??? By what mechanism?

It is you who is ignorant. It is you who has not thought about anything. You claim that there is a god out there who orders the universe and the world. But you have not thought about HOW. You have not thought about HOW your god might have done it. You have not realized that no god has done a single thing. There is no "order" and there is no way a god has done anything.

But since we're chatting go ahead. Tell me how your god can move a single pebble.

Phred · Nov 15, 2011

Jazer said:
I am not so sure about that. A understanding of the Bible does seem to be a prerequisite to eternal life.

You believe there is eternal life. There is no evidence that there is eternal life, just this one we have now. So the Bible is just a book.

Do you mean the law of Moses? Very few people understand the law of Moses. You maybe right though. Under the law perhaps none of us would be here. We may all have done something worthy of death. But as Jesus said: Let those who are without sin cast the first stone. No one is qualified to put anyone else to death. Unless you think that is what war is all about.

Funny. You conservative types put people to death all the time. You make health care a commodity for example.

Can you give me an example of where you think the Bible is a "terrible example of morality"? We would not know morality if it were not for the Bible. Or do you feel there is a better example of morality somewhere else?

We would certainly know morality without the Bible. We've known it for tens of thousands of years before the Bible was written. The best example of morality is not contained in a book. But to answer the first part of your question....

2 Chronicles 15:13 That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.
Is it moral to kill anyone who doesn't believe what you believe?

1 Thessalonians 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
2:15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

Is it moral to hate Jews? This here contributed to the Holocaust.

Exodus 13:15 And it came to pass, when Pharaoh would hardly let us go, that the LORD slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast:

Is it moral to harden someone's heart then kill all the firstborn in an entire country when they do what you made them do? And all the firstborn animals? Isn't that just showing off that you're a bloodthirsty murderer?

Leviticus 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.
Is it moral to kill anyone that says, "god [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]!" when they hit their thumb with a hammer?

I could go on for pages and pages but the point is that the Bible is outdated custom from a time long ago when a tribe held to its own. We live in an age now when I can be on the other side of the world in less than a day. Insular attitudes and killing people for the slightest transgressions are a thing of the past. The "morality" of the Bible belongs there... in the past.

"God" is not a reasonable response to any question requiring evidence

someguy14

Guest

someguy14

Guest

Newbie

Newbie

Take time for granite.

Jazer

Guest

Newbie

Jazer

Guest

Jazer

Guest

Newbie

Jazer

Guest

Newbie

Jazer

Guest

Jazer

Guest

Wanderer

Newbie

Junior Mint

Newbie

Junior Mint

Junior Mint

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency