God is in complete control.

[Hammster]

It is not a contradiction God outwitted Satan in this instance (1 Corinthians 2:8). Its not like they work on the same team. The police outwit criminals all the time, but that does not mean they made them confess to a crime.

So God used Satan to accomplish His goals. That’s a difference without a distinction.

I wonder if He can use people, too?

 

[John Mullally]

So God used Satan to accomplish His goals. That’s a difference without a distinction.

God getting Satan to work to crucify Christ is a long way from the Calvinist fatalistic doctrine where God predetermines Satan's (and every persons) every thought and action. Assuming that God is not controlling Satan: Getting Satan to crucify Christ probably did not take much convincing - I think it involved keeping Satan in the dark concerning the atonement (1 Corinthians 2:8) and providing him an opportunity. Attempts were made on Christ's life before that (Luke 4:29-30 and John 10:31). Refer also to Post 44.

I wonder if He can use people, too?

Sarcasm. God can even use the evil people do to His own advantage as seen in Genesis 50:20 and as I covered that in Post 44.

 

[Hammster]

God getting Satan to work to crucify Christ is a long way from the Calvinist fatalistic doctrine where God predetermines Satan's (and every persons) every thought and action.

Scripture says it was His predetermined plan. Your argument isn’t with Calvinists.

 

[Hammster]

God can even use the evil people do to His own advantage as seen in Genesis 50:20 and as I covered that in Post 44.

Sounds like God predetermined things.

 

[John Mullally]

God getting Satan to work to crucify Christ is a long way from the Calvinist fatalistic doctrine where God predetermines Satan's (and every persons) every thought and action.

Scripture says it was His predetermined plan. Your argument isn’t with Calvinists.

What does "it" refer to? try to be explicit. My argument is with those who say that God predetermines everything that happens here on earth, but cannot show how scripture supports that position. If that position is true, then God is the author of sin.

Acts 2:23 says that Christ's crucifixion was according to God's predetermined plan. This is not a point of contention.

Calvin goes further and say that God predetermines everything that ever happens. This is a point of contention with almost all non-Calvinists.

God can even use the evil people do to His own advantage as seen in Genesis 50:20 and as I covered that in Post 44.

Sounds like God predetermined things.

Scripture does not say Genesis 50:20 is about His predetermined plan.

Calvinists are committing the “Some to All Fallacy,” in terms that if God determined one thing, then He must have determined all things. Moreover, Acts 2:23 discusses God predetermined plan of Calvary in conjunction with His omniscient foreknowledge, which can convey the meaning that God foreknew the evil intentions of those involved and used it to His own advantage, so as to use man’s means of death as God’s means of life, in order to provide redemption for all.

 

[Hammster]

What does "it" refer to? try to be explicit.

It should have been obvious from the context that I was referring to the crucifixion, since that is what we were talking about.

My argument is with those who say that God predetermines everything that happens here on earth, but cannot show how scripture supports that position.

I have, though. You called the scripture “vanilla”.

If that position is true, then God is the author of sin.

No, and I’ve shown that, too. You just haven’t engaged with the argument.

Acts 2:23 says that Christ's crucifixion was according to God's predetermined plan. This is not a point of contention.

Sure it is. You don’t think God has any control over man.

Calvin goes further and say that God predetermines everything that ever happens. This is a point of contention with almost all non-Calvinists.

I know. I can see why you might disagree with Calvin. I don’t know why you disagree with scripture.

Scripture does not say Genesis 50:20 is about His predetermined plan.

It is either His predetermined plan, or He winged it. Since it does say that it was His intention, I’ll go with the former.

Calvinists are committing the “Some to All Fallacy,” in terms that if God determined one thing, then He must have determined all things. Moreover, Acts 2:23 discusses God predetermined plan of Calvary in conjunction with His omniscient foreknowledge, which can convey the meaning that God foreknew the evil intentions of those involved and used it to His own advantage, so as to use man’s means of death as God’s means of life, in order to provide redemption for all.

It would only be a fallacy if we had zero scripture to support the complete sovereignty of God in all things. Here’s just a few, though I know you find them vanilla.

And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “Allauthority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
— Matthew 28:18

He as all authority, which means all authority.

“I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
“And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.
— Daniel 7:13-14

He dominion over all.

For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
— Romans 14:9

He Lord over all people.

which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church,
— Ephesians 1:20-22

All things are subjected to Him.

For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
— Philippians 2:9-10

This means both the regenerate and unregenerate. I know that violates the free will of at least the unregenerate.

For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;
— Colossians 2:9-10

He rules all, and has all authority.

“But as for Me, I have installed My King
Upon Zion, My holy mountain.”
— Psalm 2:6

I’m pretty sure that Kings are sovereign over their domain. Maybe you have a different take.

‘Ask of Me, and I will surely give the nations as Your inheritance,
And the very ends of the earth as Your possession.
‘You shall break them with a rod of iron,
You shall shatter them like earthenware.’”
— Psalm 2:8-9

Yep. I was right. But maybe He only breaks those who want broken, since He can’t violate anyone’s free will.

Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
— Psalm 45:6

More kingly language here. I’m seeing a theme.


You make him to rule over the works of Your hands;
You have put all things under his feet,
— Psalm 8:6

I wonder if all things means everything.

For the kingdom is the Lord’s
And He rules over the nations.
— Psalm 22:28

Yeah, I think it does.

The Lord has established His throne in the heavens,
And His sovereignty rules over all.
— Psalm 103:19

Well, some anyway, if you are to be believed.

I could probably spend an hour finding more vanilla verses just from Psalms alone.

 

[John Mullally]

God getting Satan to work to crucify Christ is a long way from the Calvinist fatalistic doctrine where God predetermines Satan's (and every persons) every thought and action.

Scripture says it was His predetermined plan. Your argument isn’t with Calvinists.

What does "it" refer to? try to be explicit.

It should have been obvious from the context that I was referring to the crucifixion, since that is what we were talking about.

I was talking about 2 things related to God's pre-determined plan (first box). We agreed that the crucifixion was pre-determined (fourth box).

Calvinists are committing the “Some to All Fallacy,” in terms that if God determined one thing, then He must have determined all things.

It would only be a fallacy if we had zero scripture to support the complete sovereignty of God in all things. Here’s just a few, though I know you find them vanilla.

There is no contention between Calvinists and non-Calvinists over God's Sovereignty and there are plenty of scriptures that support that. You changed the subject. My argument to which you are responding concerns whether God determined all things. You present a lot of scripture, but none of it addresses whether or not God determined all that will ever happen on earth.

I have only found that scripture explicitly says that the following events were pre-planned and pre-determined by God:

1. The crucifixion and the atonement were pre-planned (Acts 2:38 and Revelations 13:8)
2. Believers are to be adopted as sons (Ephesians 1:1-12). Believers are the only ones "in Christ" (Ephesians 1:13). No one is "in Christ" from the foundation of the world because if they were Roman 16:7 makes no sense.

All the verses you quote below show God is Sovereign, but zero of them address Calvin's contention that God pre-planning and pre-destined everything that ever happens on earth.

And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “Allauthority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
— Matthew 28:18

He as all authority, which means all authority.

“I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
“And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.
— Daniel 7:13-14

He dominion over all.

For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
— Romans 14:9

He Lord over all people.

which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church,
— Ephesians 1:20-22

All things are subjected to Him.

For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
— Philippians 2:9-10

This means both the regenerate and unregenerate. I know that violates the free will of at least the unregenerate.

For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;
— Colossians 2:9-10

He rules all, and has all authority.

“But as for Me, I have installed My King
Upon Zion, My holy mountain.”
— Psalm 2:6

I’m pretty sure that Kings are sovereign over their domain. Maybe you have a different take.

‘Ask of Me, and I will surely give the nations as Your inheritance,
And the very ends of the earth as Your possession.
‘You shall break them with a rod of iron,
You shall shatter them like earthenware.’”
— Psalm 2:8-9

Yep. I was right. But maybe He only breaks those who want broken, since He can’t violate anyone’s free will.

Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
— Psalm 45:6

More kingly language here. I’m seeing a theme.


You make him to rule over the works of Your hands;
You have put all things under his feet,
— Psalm 8:6

I wonder if all things means everything.

For the kingdom is the Lord’s
And He rules over the nations.
— Psalm 22:28

Yeah, I think it does.

The Lord has established His throne in the heavens,
And His sovereignty rules over all.
— Psalm 103:19

Well, some anyway, if you are to be believed.

I could probably spend an hour finding more vanilla verses just from Psalms alone.

 

[Hammster]

I was talking about 2 things related to God's pre-determined plan (first box). We agreed that the crucifixion was pre-determined (fourth box).


There is no contention between Calvinists and non-Calvinists over God's Sovereignty and there are plenty of scriptures that support that. You changed the subject. My argument to which you are responding concerns whether God determined all things. You present a lot of scripture, but none of it addresses whether or not God determined all that will ever happen on earth.

I have only found that scripture explicitly says that the following events were pre-planned and pre-determined by God:

1. The crucifixion and the atonement were pre-planned (Acts 2:38 and Revelations 13:8)
2. Believers are to be adopted as sons (Ephesians 1:1-12). Believers are the only ones "in Christ" (Ephesians 1:13). No one is "in Christ" from the foundation of the world because if they were Roman 16:7 makes no sense.

All the verses you quote below show God is Sovereign, but zero of them address Calvin's contention that God pre-planning and pre-destined everything that ever happens on earth.

At this point, all I can do is laugh. On one hand, you agree that God is sovereign over all things, and on the other hand, you take that sovereignty away.

After Job was confronted by God, who showed him in great detail how sovereign He was over everything, said, “I know that You can do all things, And that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted.” Yet Calvin says the same thing, and you wave it away with your hand.

The writer of Hebrews says, “For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we do not yet see all things subjected to him.” Calvin says it, and it’s dismissed.

Jesus says, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.” But when Calvin says it, it’s negated.

I’ll stick with the overwhelming evidence from scripture that, from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 shows the complete sovereignty of God in all things.

 

[John Mullally]

At this point, all I can do is laugh. On one hand, you agree that God is sovereign over all things, and on the other hand, you take that sovereignty away.

God can be Sovereign without pre-determining every event that will ever take place.

After Job was confronted by God, who showed him in great detail how sovereign He was over everything, said, “I know that You can do all things, And that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted.” Yet Calvin says the same thing, and you wave it away with your hand.

God's purposes does not require that He make puppets of His creation. There are several places in the OT where God shows displeasure. How can that be if God orchestrated everything that will ever happen.

The writer of Hebrews says, “For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we do not yet see all things subjected to him.” Calvin says it, and it’s dismissed.

Jesus says, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.” But when Calvin says it, it’s negated.

I’ll stick with the overwhelming evidence from scripture that, from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 shows the complete sovereignty of God in all things.

You have not presented any evidence that God pre-determines every event that will ever take place on earth.

 

[Hammster]

God can be Sovereign without pre-determining every event that will ever take place.

Not really. That would mean that there are things outside of His control. I hope you are actually arguing for that.

God's purposes does not require that He make puppets of His creation. There are several places in the OT where God shows displeasure. How can that be if God orchestrated everything that will ever happen.

Nobody has argued for puppets. That’s just a tired straw man from those opposed to God’s complete sovereignty.

God can show displeasure because man makes choices that displease God. For instance, do you think God was pleased with the men who killed His innocent Son? Did they do so freely? Did He orchestrate it? (These are rhetorical.)

You have not presented any evidence that God pre-determines every event that will ever take place on earth.

I have, but wherever Calvin agrees with scripture, you call it vanilla.

 

[John Mullally]

Nobody has argued for puppets. That’s just a tired straw man from those opposed to God’s complete sovereignty.

Technically, a Sovereign God could make puppets out of people. Many invalid arguments I hear from Calvinists revolve around what God could do. And what is the difference between a puppet and a creature who's every action was scripted in advance (what Calvin asserts)? Its rich, that you complain about being straw-manned when you continually misrepresent my (and other non-Calvinists Evangelicals) position in saying we oppose God's complete Sovereignty.

You have not presented any evidence that God pre-determines every event that will ever take place on earth.

I have, but wherever Calvin agrees with scripture, you call it vanilla.

God would have to be Sovereign in order to pre-determine everything, but that does not mean He did. He can give man the ability to self-determine his own motives and choices. If man's choices are pre-determined, why is man judged and held accountable for His choices? All you have presented are scriptures that show that God is Sovereign - which is not the point of contention. None of your presented scriptures support Calvin's assertion that God pre-determined everything that happens on earth.

Although all Scripture is inspired, it is often misused. Presenting scriptures which obviously do not support an argument is at best misleading.

 

[Hammster]

Technically, a Sovereign God could make puppets out of people. Many invalid arguments I hear from Calvinists revolve around what God could do. And what is the difference between a puppet and a creature who's every action was scripted in advance (what Calvin asserts)? Its rich, that you complain about being straw-manned when you continually misrepresent my (and other non-Calvinists Evangelicals) position in saying we oppose God's complete Sovereignty.


God would have to be Sovereign in order to pre-determine everything, but that does not mean He did. He can give man the ability to self-determine his own motives and choices. If man's choices are pre-determined, why is man judged and held accountable for His choices? All you have presented are scriptures that show that God is Sovereign - which is not the point of contention. None of your presented scriptures support Calvin's assertion that God pre-determined everything that happens on earth.

Although all Scripture is inspired, it is often misused. Presenting scriptures which obviously do not support an argument is at best misleading.

Let’s tackle it this way. Does God know every action man might freely choose? If so, can He let man do that action if it suits His purpose? Also, can He intervene to prevent man from performing that action?

 

[John Mullally]

Many invalid arguments I hear from Calvinists revolve around what God could do.

Let’s tackle it this way. Does God know every action man might freely choose? If so, can He let man do that action if it suits His purpose? Also, can He intervene to prevent man from performing that action?

Its another Calvinist argument based upon speculating what God could do.

I see where this is going. This line of reasoning ultimately leads to everything that happens is for God's purpose or in other words God's Will. On the surface, it's a reasonable argument that many non-Christians, like Islamists and first century Gnostics, believe as well.

In Calvinism, if God really wants something, then proof of what He wants is found in what He gets. If God really wants a certain thing, then He gets a certain thing. However, as a non-Calvinist, I believe that Jesus sincerely desires everyone to come to know Him (1 Timothy 2:4) , but just because I don’t believe that He forces His love on to everyone, doesn’t mean that I question His sincerity. I believe that God wants everyone to be saved freely. Nevertheless, Calvinists assume their own premise, as a fact, in order to reach a Calvinistic conclusion.

1 Timothy 2:3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. (NIV)​

To avoid Circular Logic: Calvinists should first attempt to prove that God always gets what He wants, rather than just assuming it. Non-Calvinists argue from Ezekiel 18:23 and Matthew 6:10 that God Himself testifies that His will is not presently being done on earth, as it is in Heaven, though one day it will.

Ezekiel 18:23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live? (NIV)​

Jesus would not command his followers to pray something that is not the Will of God. So when Jesus commanded His followers to pray "Your will be done on earth as it is heaven" per Matthew 6:10, they were also saying that God's Will on earth equates with what is being done in heaven. Notice that "be done" is in the present tense. There is no sin, sickness, poverty, or rebellion in heaven - therefore, God's Will is not presently being done on earth.

God's Secret Will (Calvinist term): Sometimes when Calvinists are faced with a conundrum, they will invoke two wills in God, in which there is a “Revealed Will” and a “Secret Will.” The former is intended for man, and does not necessarily reflect the deepest truth of God, while the latter is God’s sovereign will, which He always brings about, even when it contradicts the Revealed Will. Deuteronomy 29:29 states: “The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law.” Although there are some things that we must trust God with, that does not necessarily mean that they are in contradiction to God’s stated Word.

When God says that He “wants all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” (1 Timothy 2:4) and is “patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance” (2 Peter 3:9) and does not “have any pleasure in the death of the wicked” but rather would have it he “should turn from their ways and live” (Ezekiel 18:23), is that the Revealed Will or the Secret Will? When Jesus said to Jerusalem, “How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling” (Matthew 23:37), did He secretly mean that He never really wanted to do so, as part of a Secret Will in predestining them to Hell?

From the Calvinistic perspective, all of this is an apparent contradiction but not an actual contradiction, since our finite minds are incapacitated by the pollution of sin in the world. However, apparent contradictions are resolved with logic, while actual contradictions are resolved with Double-Talk, and that Double-Talk appears to be a Calvinist’s only real defense.

 

[Hammster]

Its another Calvinist argument based upon speculating what God could do.

I see where this is going. This line of reasoning ultimately leads to everything that happens is for God's purpose or in other words God's Will. On the surface, it's a reasonable argument that many non-Christians, like Islamists and first century Gnostics, believe as well.

In Calvinism, if God really wants something, then proof of what He wants is found in what He gets. If God really wants a certain thing, then He gets a certain thing. However, as a non-Calvinist, I believe that Jesus sincerely desires everyone to come to know Him (1 Timothy 2:4) , but just because I don’t believe that He forces His love on to everyone, doesn’t mean that I question His sincerity. I believe that God wants everyone to be saved freely. Nevertheless, Calvinists assume their own premise, as a fact, in order to reach a Calvinistic conclusion.

1 Timothy 2:3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. (NIV)​

To avoid Circular Logic: Calvinists should first attempt to prove that God always gets what He wants, rather than just assuming it. Non-Calvinists argue from Ezekiel 18:23 and Matthew 6:10 that God Himself testifies that His will is not presently being done on earth, as it is in Heaven, though one day it will.

Ezekiel 18:23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live? (NIV)​

Jesus would not command his followers to pray something that is not the Will of God. So when Jesus commanded His followers to pray "Your will be done on earth as it is heaven" per Matthew 6:10, they were also saying that God's Will on earth equates with what is being done in heaven. Notice that "be done" is in the present tense. There is no sin, sickness, poverty, or rebellion in heaven - therefore, God's Will is not presently being done on earth.

God's Secret Will (Calvinist term): Sometimes when Calvinists are faced with a conundrum, they will invoke two wills in God, in which there is a “Revealed Will” and a “Secret Will.” The former is intended for man, and does not necessarily reflect the deepest truth of God, while the latter is God’s sovereign will, which He always brings about, even when it contradicts the Revealed Will. Deuteronomy 29:29 states: “The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law.” Although there are some things that we must trust God with, that does not necessarily mean that they are in contradiction to God’s stated Word.

When God says that He “wants all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” (1 Timothy 2:4) and is “patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance” (2 Peter 3:9) and does not “have any pleasure in the death of the wicked” but rather would have it he “should turn from their ways and live” (Ezekiel 18:23), is that the Revealed Will or the Secret Will? When Jesus said to Jerusalem, “How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling” (Matthew 23:37), did He secretly mean that He never really wanted to do so, as part of a Secret Will in predestining them to Hell?

From the Calvinistic perspective, all of this is an apparent contradiction but not an actual contradiction, since our finite minds are incapacitated by the pollution of sin in the world. However, apparent contradictions are resolved with logic, while actual contradictions are resolved with Double-Talk, and that Double-Talk appears to be a Calvinist’s only real defense.

So anyway…

Does God know every action man might freely choose? If so, can He let man do that action if it suits His purpose? Also, can He intervene to prevent man from performing that action?

 

[John Mullally]

So anyway…

Does God know every action man might freely choose? If so, can He let man do that action if it suits His purpose? Also, can He intervene to prevent man from performing that action?

Jesus could turn stones into bread - but if He did so in Matthew 4:3, He would have wrecked His ministry before it got started.

Arguing purely based upon what God could do is meaningless. So anyway... Get to your point and hopefully you can support it with scripture.

 

[Hammster]

Jesus could turn stones into bread - but if He did so in Matthew 4:3, He would have wrecked His ministry before it got started.

Arguing purely based upon what God could do is meaningless. So anyway... Get to your point and hopefully you can support it with scripture.

Since you won’t answer the questions, I guess we are done.

 

[John Mullally]

Arguing purely based upon what God could do is meaningless. So anyway... Get to your point and hopefully you can support it with scripture.

Since you won’t answer the questions, I guess we are done.

Since you won't get to your point, I guess we are done.

 

[Hammster]

Since you won't get to your point, I guess we are done.

No problem. I started a thread. Maybe someone there will be able to answer.

 

[Mark Quayle]

There are many problems with this, probably far to many to discuss in an online forum.
Suffice to say I do not see where God claims to be in control of everything or that He even wants to be. It is true that He is sovereign, meaning He can do anything He wants. But that does not mean He always does. I believe when He created the universe, he imparted part of His sovereignty into His creation. Every element in creation has a right to exist and to interact with every other element.
A rock is on the side of a hill. It rains and snows and eventually the rock is dislodged from the side of the hill. It rolls down the hill and bonks someone on the head. This is called the course of nature. Could God stop it? Yes of course. But since these sorts of things happen every day to everyone, we have to admit that He does not. His dealing with His creation is one of intervention, not of orchestration. That means anything can happen. You might think of it as the default setting. He allows anything to happen by default. He can and sometimes does intervene. But it is obvious He does not.
Salvation is an intervention against universal, default damnation. Healing is an intervention against the default setting of people getting sick. He is not always ordaining or orchestrating every instance of sickness. Sometimes, I believe most of the time, it is just nature taking its course.
The other side of the coin is also problematic. If God is in control of everything, then He is responsible for all evil, moral and physical. People try to him haw around this with talk about "allowing" and "permission." But that is just obfuscation. As you said, He is either in control of everything or He is not.
But the scripture is replete with examples where God is the protector, the savior, the healer, the deliverer, the high tower, the shield, etc.
What or who is he protecting us from? Himself? That would be the case if He was in fact, in control of the arrows that were direct at His own shield. Is He the healer of the sicknesses He put on everyone? Is He protecting us from the evil He Himself is sending our way. At some point we have to declare shenanigans.
In the end, if God is in control of everything, then all of creation is merely the outward manifestation of the mind of God. Nothing is real, genuine, or true. He wrote the story, is playing all the parts (including the devil), directing the cheers of the crowd, and performing His own encore. So I have concluded that this is why we are required to have faith. Otherwise, if you believe or not is moot. Whatever is going to happen would happen anyways. Faith is what pleases God. If He is in control of everything, then faith is impossible because all we have is resignation to the predetermined script from which there is no alteration.

Your post is replete with assumptions there, intuitive but not exactly logical.

I'm going to bypass most of your claims, to get to the point. Once again, your thinking, like that of Arminians, runs along the lines: If God is in complete control, then everything is automatic.

Notice your own sentence toward the end: "Whatever is going to happen would happen anyways." That is true enough —and the statement supplies a 'bridge' toward seeing the facts even from your humanocentric point of view. It is a step beyond that where you make your false conclusions, drawn on your assumption that if God does something, it will happen automatically, with or without us.

What God does is not done automatically. It is done surely, but not automatically. While the truth is seen from God's point of view, your notion that God acting in all power and control —a notion made from the human predilection for admiration of "big shiny explosive wow"— does nothing to define God nor to describe him. His power and control are demonstrated best by his ability to bring about everything he decreed by means of what we would consider weak —foolish even— and at the risk of impending disaster.

Thus, a human's choice does bring about the details that God predetermined concerning that human; but that human's choice does not predetermine God's choice.

 

[Lost Witness]

Not even a Calvinist but it's clear in scripture that GOD is Absolutely Sovereign,
He wouldn't be Almighty declaring the end from the beginning were it elsewise.