God is Good

[gaara4158]

Maybe you need to read again what is posted? The source of all Good is God through His Mesengers. Our heart can choose to turn to that good or not.

Or using metephor. The sun is God, the Rays are the Holy Spirit, the Messenger is the perfect unblemished mirror. If we turn the mirror of our heart towards them and polish away the veils of this world, we can also reflect what is from God. We can not do that without the Messenger.

That is quite clear and precise. Regards Tony

I’m not confused about that part. I’m confused about how you justify calling anything good on your worldview. You either have a meaningless tautology or you implicitly adhere to some unstated moral philosophy.

 

[cvanwey]

Right. It is not enough to merely say that "God is good." God is omnibenevolent, meaning that He IS goodness and nothing but good can be created by Him or emanated from Him. Evil, is not a thing in itself. Rather, it is a privation, an absence of something that ought to be there. Like a hole in a sweater. In this case, evil is an absence of good.

Then let's go to post #85 to test this 'privation'.

A human states God tells or told them to do this or that. Meaning, (from Biblical times or at present), assuming God did not stop interacting with humans directly after the completion of the Bible. The human themselves, in their 'gut', may not agree, but follows through or carries out the act, based on the perceived message(s) given by God.

Does the human have the ability to evaluate 'moral' actions, (or), is something 'moral' only when directed by their creator?

Getting to the crux of the issue, I guess what I'm essentially asking is...

When someone tells or told you God told them to do it, and you do not think the act was 'good' yourself, is this how you evaluate if the message was truly from God or not? Which goes right back to the question above, with underlines...

 

[cvanwey]

I think you first need to know what "evil" is before you can go further with this topic.

I'm asking you. Please address post #102.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Does the human have the ability to evaluate 'moral' actions, (or), is something 'moral' only when directed by their creator?....
.......When someone tells or told you God told them to do it, and you do not think the act was 'good' yourself, is this how you evaluate if the message was truly from God or not? Which goes right back to the question above, with underlines...

The answer is within this passage;

Genesis 1:27 "So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them"

That image is the potential of the virtues within us all. Thus each of us does have the ability to bring forth all the virtues with a God given free will to do so. There are many that do not beleive in God, that may use more of that potential than others that say they do beleive in God.

Thus we go back to what is the standards we are to find, what is God's image? That is Gods Messengers, their Message is that potential and their person and lives are the example. They are the first to live the Message that God has given them.

All morals that man can find within themselves, is from God's Messengers, even if one chooses not to acknowledge that fact.

Regards Tony

 

[cvanwey]

Genesis 1:27 "So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them"

If the above passage is the provided answer to the presented dilemma, we can then proceed. The above passage seems to suggest that if God build 'man' in His image, then humans inherently know what is 'good' or 'bad'. How we decide to act upon this knowledge is another issue entirely.

Now that we seem to have your synopsis squared away, we can continue...

I would assume that you believe God is interactive with humans to this day? yes or no

- Assuming the answer is 'yes', are you able to evaluate when a claimed message is from God? yes or no

- Assuming the answer is 'yes', many people claim God told them to do this or that. Many of which you do not find 'moral' or justifiable on any level, even after careful evaluation. Is your gut disagreement with the command what tells you the message was not actually from God? Or other?

*********

Getting back to post #85, I was hoping you would touch on my points presented?

The Bible is filled with claimed God/human interaction. I would assume this continues, and that God is not now absent from human interaction... Assuming this is the case, as I would assume you stick to the notion that God wants a personal relationship with His creation? I would like to hear your take.

How can you tell if a message is actually from God?
People of opposing religions claim interaction from their opposing Gods. Are they all mistaken, and only Christians are not?

Thank you!

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

If the above passage is the provided answer to the presented dilemma, we can then proceed. The above passage seems to suggest that if God build 'man' in His image, then humans inherently know what is 'good' or 'bad'. How we decide to act upon this knowledge is another issue entirely.

Now that we seem to have your synopsis squared away, we can continue...

I would assume that you believe God is interactive with humans to this day? yes or no

- Assuming the answer is 'yes', are you able to evaluate when a claimed message is from God? yes or no

- Assuming the answer is 'yes', many people claim God told them to do this or that. Many of which you do not find 'moral' or justifiable on any level, even after careful evaluation. Is your gut disagreement with the command what tells you the message was not actually from God? Or other?

It is both the Bible and the Heart. The bible gives clear guidance as to who is a True and who is a false Prophet. I am sure those passages do not need to be re-posted. I am happy to list them if required.

Needless to say, Christianity has ignored all these requirements in favor of the standard reply that all prophets are false, if they do not fit the preconceived conditions that Christianity has placed and now requires for the return of Christ.

I am happy to proceed into those requirements and more detailed prophecy.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Getting back to post #85, I was hoping you would touch on my points presented?

The Bible is filled with claimed God/human interaction. I would assume this continues, and that God is not now absent from human interaction... Assuming this is the case, as I would assume you stick to the notion that God wants a personal relationship with His creation? I would like to hear your take.

How can you tell if a message is actually from God?
People of opposing religions claim interaction from their opposing Gods. Are they all mistaken, and only Christians are not?

Thank you!

I see I answered that in this post

As I have said. If they are Christain, what does the Bible say about such acts?

If they are Muslim, what does the Quran say about such acts?

If they have no Faith, what does the law of the land say about such acts?

In that way you have the answers to your questions.

My point of view on your two questions, is the child killer is obvious and this needs no answer from me.

The other is political and I do not comment on these aspects. A general comment would be when faced with such issues, one must look towards what God has offered and then act within those guidelines and within the Laws of the Land.

Regards Tony

I will offer that I see no opposing Gods, I see there is only One God who came in Many Names. I see it is our comprehension that finds division. Also there is a twofold station to every Message from God, the changeable aspects of Faith and the Eternal Truths.

It is like White Light. "God, or White light becomes visible when it reflects off the surface of an object. So when white light strikes a neutral coloured object and all wavelengths are reflected then it appears white to an observer (The Station of the Messengers/Prophets), but if it strikes a prisim we can see all wavelengths of light, or all the names of God. It is us that likes seeing the white light through a Prism.

This also explains good and evil, as white light contains all the wavelengths of visible light, but Black, on the other hand, is the absence of the visible light.

I will post what Baha'u'llah says is a life in that Light;

"..Be generous in prosperity, and thankful in adversity. Be worthy of the trust of thy neighbor, and look upon him with a bright and friendly face. Be a treasure to the poor, an admonisher to the rich, an answerer of the cry of the needy, a preserver of the sanctity of thy pledge. Be fair in thy judgment, and guarded in thy speech. Be unjust to no man, and show all meekness to all men. Be as a lamp unto them that walk in darkness, a joy to the sorrowful, a sea for the thirsty, a haven for the distressed, an upholder and defender of the victim of oppression. Let integrity and uprightness distinguish all thine acts. Be a home for the stranger, a balm to the suffering, a tower of strength for the fugitive. Be eyes to the blind, and a guiding light unto the feet of the erring. Be an ornament to the countenance of truth, a crown to the brow of fidelity, a pillar of the temple of righteousness, a breath of life to the body of mankind, an ensign of the hosts of justice, a luminary above the horizon of virtue, a dew to the soil of the human heart, an ark on the ocean of knowledge, a sun in the heaven of bounty, a gem on the diadem of wisdom, a shining light in the firmament of thy generation, a fruit upon the tree of humility."

Regards Tony

 

[cvanwey]

It is both the Bible and the Heart. The bible gives clear guidance as to who is a True and who is a false Prophet. I am sure those passages do not need to be re-posted. I am happy to list them if required.

Needless to say, Christianity has ignored all these requirements in favor of the standard reply that all prophets are false, if they do not fit the preconceived conditions that Christianity has placed and now requires for the return of Christ.

I am happy to proceed into those requirements and more detailed prophecy.

Regards Tony

This response seems to throw us into some very 'sticky' territory. I trust you realize there is a very large sect of people(s), (namely the Jews and the Muslims), whom accept the OT, but reject the notion that prophecy is speaking about your specific flavor/brand of Messiah/savior/other

Thus, it seems 'sticky', in the sense that right off the top, we have (3) distinctive groups, against (1). Meaning, the Jews, the Muslims, and the non-believers of all of it in general....

Though I will not ask you for specific verses, because I already know we have both read them; I trust you can at least safely reconcile that all such OT prophecy is rather vague, at best; or at least left up for 'interpretation'? We can just leave it at that....

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

This response seems to throw us into some very 'sticky' territory. I trust you realize there is a very large sects of people, (namely the Jews and the Muslims), whom accept the OT, but reject the notion that prophecy is speaking about your specific flavor/brand of Messiah/savior/other

Thus, it seems 'sticky', in the sense that right off the top, we have (3) distinctive groups, against (1). Meaning, the Jews, the Muslims, and the non-believers of all of it in general....

Though I will not ask you for specific verses, because I already know we have both read them; I trust you can at least safely reconcile that all such OT prophecy is rather vague, at best; or at least left up for 'interpretation'? We can just leave it at that....

That is how God has always sent His Messengers and Prophets. Always people have free will to look at an alternate explanation, or not to look at it. Thus each message is born out of the Message that came before.

Personally I see sound prophecy for Messages after Jesus the Christ and I am very happy to leave it at that. It is not I that gifts faith to any hearts.

Regards Tony

 

[cvanwey]

That is how God has always sent His Messengers and Prophets. Always people have free will to look at an alternate explanation, or not to look at it. Thus each message is born out of the Message that came before.

Personally I see sound prophecy for Messages after Jesus the Christ and I am very happy to leave it at that. It is not I that gifts faith to any hearts.

Regards Tony

Kool. We will simply need to agree to disagree. As I have stated to others, one can take the very same Bible verses, and apply differing interpretations. Hermeneutics is 'tricky' that way

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Kool. We will simply need to agree to disagree. As I have stated to others, one can take the very same Bible verses, and apply differing interpretations. Hermeneutics is 'tricky' that way

It sure is tricky and it takes serious contemplation if we do not want to inavertantly use that difficulty, to reject what may be true. After that is always a possibility.

Regards Tony