God hates Homosexuals???

[Kenpo]

Disagreeing that Falwell and Robertson consistently promote evil and hatred is like disagreeing that fish start to smell after a week out in the hot sun. It goes beyond mere disagreement on a debateable point.

I don't really know that much about these two it was Kennedy and Dobson I was more interested in. Thank you for the answers.

 

[seebs]

I don't really know that much about these two it was Kennedy and Dobson I was more interested in. Thank you for the answers.

I don't know Kennedy.

Dobson has a set of nominal credentials that make it very difficult for me to imagine that he is acting in good faith when he makes some of his anti-gay claims.

There are things he says that are not malicious gossip, but much of what he says is not just unfounded, but is on topics where anyone who did even casual research at a competent level would know that. For him to be called "Dr." James Dobson requires either a complete cheapening of the title or that he be in a state of willful ignorance at best.

That he has burned a lot of his political capital of late is excellent news for the future of Christianity in America; the sooner we start being the people who feed the hungry and stop being the people who put cameras in other peoples' bedrooms, the better.

 

[Torah613]

You could have said homosexuals instead of using the F word. Would you like it if I called you the B word?

Moana,

This is a quote situation--and nobody (so far) is agreeing with those loosers.

Jo Zollars

 

[Torah613]

I assume the intent is to refer to the famous sign, not to personally insult people.

I have seen a growing tend towards using the term affectionately, in any case.

Hey--only within our community, and at that only sections of it.

Just like certain N words can only legitimitly be used in the African American community.

Its stanard human practice for oppressed groups to pick up derogatory words used against them and use them amongst themselves. Its a linguistics exercise that robs the derogatory word of its power.

Jo Zollars

 

[Torah613]

As I didn't write the post that we are both discussing (UberLutheran's) I had no choice in who was included in his list. When I responded, I referred to Robertson and Falwell specifically, because I am more familiar with them. I'm going to stick to that.
That said, here is a partial transcript of the the 700 Club, where Falwell blames everybody he doesn't like for 9/11, and Robertson "concurs."

Here is a page of Robertson Quotes--his "throwing blood around" line is at the bottom of the first section, just above "no American causalties in Iraq." It includes many other lines by him, such as calling somebody who had called into the show a "Big fat nancy nancy-boy [slur for gay man]," and his assertion that "Just like what Nazi Germany did to the Jews, so liberal America is now doing to the evangelical Christians. It's no different. It's the same thing. It's happening all over again. ...".

Same website, flipping back over to Jerry Falwell, we find the usual "Aids is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals...[and] for the society that tolerates homosexuals" tripe.
There's one, Robertson says this too, about the Anti-Christ likely being Jewish, but he words it in such a way that he can probably escape anti-semitism charges.

There's a statement, not recorded, but attributed to him by his ghostwriter and, until they parted ways, long-time friend Mel White "Thank God for these gay demonstrators. If I didn't have them, I'd have to invent them. They give me all the publicity I need."

Ok--I never read those quotes before. Now I'm ticked.

As a Jewish man (let alone a gay man--who were also persecuted by the Nazi's) I have to ask how dare he. Where are the camps for evangelicals.

I think the current political climate in America shows it is much more likely to become a breeding ground for Neo-Nazism than persecution of Christian sects.

Jo Zollars

 

[Torah613]

I don't know Kennedy.

Dobson has a set of nominal credentials that make it very difficult for me to imagine that he is acting in good faith when he makes some of his anti-gay claims.

There are things he says that are not malicious gossip, but much of what he says is not just unfounded, but is on topics where anyone who did even casual research at a competent level would know that. For him to be called "Dr." James Dobson requires either a complete cheapening of the title or that he be in a state of willful ignorance at best.

That he has burned a lot of his political capital of late is excellent news for the future of Christianity in America; the sooner we start being the people who feed the hungry and stop being the people who put cameras in other peoples' bedrooms, the better.

Bravo!

Jo Zollars

 

[Moana]

I have edited the post to remove the f word. I felt that it was important to use it as that was one of the things i was compaining about.

I would like to say sorry to anyone who was offended by it, i know i was when i first saw the picture. I would also like to say sorry for using the word in my post.

Love

John

Thanks. It just bothers me. It's like the N word or any other slur.

 

[Im_A]

Sorry about the title but it was the only way i could think of wrighting it.

Im refering to a picture i saw a while ago which really made me quite upset. I dont know how to do links or post pics yet so i will try to describe it for you. There are two "christians" in the picture, both holding up signs. I cant remember what the first one says but the other one states in big letters. "God hates Homosexuals". Although they use a derogitary term.

Before i continue, i would like to say that i believe that homosexuality is a sin but even so, these scriptures come to mind.

Matthew 7: 1-5 (judging others)

Mark 12: 28-34 (love towards others)

This is not a thread about condemning or justifying homosexuality, its about christian hate. Its about those types of "christians" that say things like God hates this or God hates that. Im not really sure ive ever met this God that hates everything. The God i worship loves everyone even if they are gay or a single parent or any other thing that these supposed christians want us to believe he hates.

I suppose what im saying is, I just dont get it.

Im trying very hard to understand these types of christians, but i cant. I just cant justify a person who calls themselves a christian, spouting out all that hatred towards a fellow human being.

Can someone help me to understand them and love them the way i should. I dont hate them, i just feel sad for them.

Thanks for reading this and for any help you feel you can give.

Love

John

since you said it is about Christian hate, i figure, it is based in every camp of Christianity. simply put, God hates whoever we individually hate or "dislike". it goes with all groups. God favors who we favor, even if we can't agree eye to eye, and God is in those we like, and God isn't in those we don't like. just a fact of our humanity.

i don't know if this helps any, but they are free to believe whatever they want, just as anyone who disagrees with them is free to believe in whatever they want. i find it best if they preach something that goes against your conscience, just pray for them and forget about it. no one can do anything about it, and praying for them is about the only thing that means anything because speaking out against them just continues the bashing, the seperation. i think it'd be cool to sit down with some of those types of people and have a cup of coffee or a beer with them and have some laughs and just forget about all their hate. there are a lot of things i hate myself, and i imagine all of us hate a lot of things. not that much different between us and them just mere technicalities

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Love the sinner and hate the sin.

It is said that God breathed life in to all of us. It is said that we are all God's children. It is said God is a God of life. It is said life is a gift from God.

So, since God gave us (gift) part of himself (breath/life) and God is our Father shouldn't we cherish this gift?

Since God loves every one shouldn't we?

God already says he loves us all so we know God does not hate anyone. God gave us rules to follow as a father gives his son/daughter rules to follow, for their own good even if they do not know any better.

If any one is to follow Jesus then he/she must learn to live like Jesus and with the grace of God we will. But this way of life will never include hatred of another since Jesus loved everyone even those that persecuted him.

Jesus said it earns us nothing to love those that love us because even the sinners do that. Instead love those that hate you since this will be rewarded in heaven.

And who are we to judge?

Only God has that right and that was given to Jesus. Jesus gave this to the Saints in heaven as well. But here on earth not one person has the power to judge another so not one person on this earth can know who is going to heaven and who is not.

We should love everyone including homosexuals. Do not love their ways against life but pray for them to know Jesus so they can know and understand his ways and find their way to heaven as we try to find our way as well.


God Bless and Peace,

Jack

 

[TieDye]

I think we all know the verses about love/forgiveness/reaching out, etc, so there's no need for me to quote them - you guys know what I'm talking about.

I'm disgusted by Phelps's little "movement" . . . but it's different for me now than when I first found out about it. When I first found out, I was filled with a lot of anger and hate towards him, but now whenever I hear something about him or read/see something he says, I just feel saddened and get this sinking feeling . . . I truly, truly feel sorry for him and his church. They've all strayed so far from preaching a gospel of Christ's love and delved into ONE ISSUE and using it in a way that drives people away from the church instead of inviting them in.

We're all sinners, we know that. We can't look down on other people for sins we percieve in their lives. That's one thing I don't like about hellfire and brimstone tracts - the purpose they seem to serve is to drive people away, rarely mentioning Christ's love and using brutal terminology rather than telling people about the grace and love and Good News . . . and it comes across as an attitude of superiority, rather than saying, "Hey, we're sinners too! But guess what - God loves you, we love you, and you are welcome to come and learn about Christ with us."

 

[Libre]

I'm new. In fact, this is my first post. I am in a forum where they have attacked me repeatedly because I posted a message about loving and accepting gay Christians. It's been brutal. I understand this is not the place here to promote or defame, and I am doing neither. Just relating my experience lately.

I joined this forum because of this Liberal topic area. Is there an area where the pros and cons of accepting gay Christians is discussed? I am not gay, but this thing has been on by heart for some time now. Mainly due to people like Phelps. Such venom. It just didn't seem Christlike to me, and so I began to study, and talk to people like Mel White. Yes, I actually email him. He's very nice.

Pat

 

[scraparcs]

We can discuss gay Christians to some extent here in a congregational forum -- although in this part of the forum you will find more acceptance arguments than any! (Frankly, my two cents, you might be best discussing it right here, I know there's a few threads on this around the forum.)

I loved Mel White's book "Stranger at the Gate". Have you read that one yet?

Welcome to CF, Libre! Feel free to chat around here!

 

[Libre]

Yes, I have. That's what led to my emails with him. Another one is Calling the Rainbow Nation Home by Elaine Sundby. In fact, before she became a pastor, her pastor was a man in Dayton OH, and I am probably only 20 min from his church. Been trying to work up the courage to visit. I just don't like to visit churches, and then, it's a gay church and I'm not. It is pentecostal, and I am. That's a plus!

Pat

 

[tulc]

Been trying to work up the courage to visit. I just don't like to visit churches, and then, it's a gay church and I'm not. It is pentecostal, and I am. (emp. added)

...or you could think of it as just another Church and that might help? Because I'll bet once you get there it wont be any different then any other Church you've attended.
tulc(Welcome to CF!)

 

[JulySheMustFly]

People who think like that need a lesson in grammar. I just did a little quick check on the phrase "God hates" and guess what? God hates things not people. Sure some of the translations word the verses very strangely but any decent grasp of the English language will show you that God hates things.

It makes me so mad that people do stupid things and then loudly proclaim them in the name of my God that are clearly not in His character. Oooh, and then to even perpetuate this nonsense onto a younger generation is ridiculous. It does those children no good to believe that God is capable of hating a person because when God can hate a person then we can and when we hate that is the antithesis of what God has made it clear that he desires from us. And the greatest of these is love. Hmmm. . . .

 

[Pogue]

I'm new. In fact, this is my first post. I am in a forum where they have attacked me repeatedly because I posted a message about loving and accepting gay Christians. It's been brutal. I understand this is not the place here to promote or defame, and I am doing neither. Just relating my experience lately.

I joined this forum because of this Liberal topic area. Is there an area where the pros and cons of accepting gay Christians is discussed? I am not gay, but this thing has been on by heart for some time now. Mainly due to people like Phelps. Such venom. It just didn't seem Christlike to me, and so I began to study, and talk to people like Mel White. Yes, I actually email him. He's very nice.

Pat

Welcome to the forums- don't be put off too much by the extremism, we're not all like that here. Although it can get a bit disheartening when you realise that accepting gay people for who they are puts you in the minority.

 

[Libre]

It's Ok. Right now I'm frustrated over the 15 posts rule.

 

[Libre]

Now, why did that go through and the others didn't. Haven't reached 15 yet.

 

[scraparcs]

Here's a hint for the 15 post rule: recreation room.

 

[Torah613]

since you said it is about Christian hate, i figure, it is based in every camp of Christianity. simply put, God hates whoever we individually hate or "dislike". it goes with all groups. God favors who we favor, even if we can't agree eye to eye, and God is in those we like, and God isn't in those we don't like. just a fact of our humanity.

i don't know if this helps any, but they are free to believe whatever they want, just as anyone who disagrees with them is free to believe in whatever they want. i find it best if they preach something that goes against your conscience, just pray for them and forget about it. no one can do anything about it, and praying for them is about the only thing that means anything because speaking out against them just continues the bashing, the seperation. i think it'd be cool to sit down with some of those types of people and have a cup of coffee or a beer with them and have some laughs and just forget about all their hate. there are a lot of things i hate myself, and i imagine all of us hate a lot of things. not that much different between us and them just mere technicalities

Tatted:

with all do respect are you familiar with the group in question? They don't just preach their message--they harass people about it. They protest in front of churches they don't like, heckle mourners at the funerals of people they don't like (usually US Soldiers or anyone who tries in some way to help find a cure for AIDS), taunt people at 9-11 memorials (which they believe was a good thing because a lot of AIDS research funding was generated through a fundraising firm located in the twin towers), and generally make life miserable for those of us who happen to be sane Kansans.

This is a group of people we need to stand up vocally against because of all the damage they do to the christian faith. We cannot afford to be silent about them. They drive too many people away from God.

Jo Zollars