God has a sense of humor, but it does not look good for us

[jas3]

““When brothers live together and one of them dies and has no son, the wife of the deceased shall not be married outside the family to a strange man. Her husband’s brother shall go in to her and take her to himself as wife and perform the duty of a husband’s brother to her. It shall be that the firstborn whom she bears shall assume the name of his dead brother, so that his name will not be blotted out from Israel.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭25‬:‭5‬-‭6‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So this is why Onan was killed by God because he didn’t follow this commandment.

I addressed this argument already:

First, it's speculative in that we don't actually have a record of a law requiring this of Onan like we see in Deuteronomy 25:5; the argument extrapolates backward from Deuteronomy and assumes that there was a similar law binding Onan in Genesis. All we have is Judah's instruction to him in verse 8.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Do you deny that the inquisitions took place between 1184AD-1870AD and that during that time there were 99 popes who could’ve put a stop to it who didn’t? Because it was initially instituted by the pope in 1184 and was officially abolished by the pope in 1870 so I think you’re just making claims that aren’t actually supported by the facts.

I said we can speak about it. Start a thread and present facts. It is not appropriate here

 

[BNR32FAN]

Christian couples were taught mortification of desire and responsibility. They were not told that they were too weak to control sexual desires.

Umm I just quoted Paul specifically stating that some people were too weak to overcome sexual desires.

“But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭7‬:‭9‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

I addressed this argument already:

Yes you did and I apologize but the Hebrew word that is translated to “marriage” in Genesis 38:8 Yabam isn’t about just any marriage, it’s specific to the marriage of a deceased brother’s widow for the purpose of providing her with an heir. That’s the only context it’s ever used in, in the scriptures.

 

[BNR32FAN]

When I was a Protestant, the story of Onan caused me confusion. He flat out refused to raise up children for his brother and desecrated the marital act, but what if he had children but only occasionally desecrated the act?

I was frustrated by the lack of answer to that question

contraceptives have been know since ancient times. The thing is, for the first 1900 years of the Church, contraceptives were known as the behavior or prostitutes and lechers.
Christian couples were taught mortification of desire and responsibility. They were not told that they were too weak to control sexual desires.
Pregnancy gives you nine moths intercourse without the need for contraception and breast feeding can stop menstruation for up to a year afterward. There are plenty of times when a couple can have intercourse during infertile periods, and that would be in line with Biblical teaching

For some reason in the 1930s some people thought they were smarter than God and thought prostitutes and johns have too much fun, let’s do what they do. They made it mainstream and we can see the result. The marital act is no where respected, not even in so called churches that claim to worship God, yet retain attachment to lust. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it does not work that way. We are required to mortify the deeds of the flesh and God has provided us ways to do it naturally. Don’t believe me? Don’t care. You will answer at the judgement seat of Christ.

People tried to get around God’s commands in ancient times, but Jesus sternly rebuked them. Man used his reason and said I will just look at a woman and pleasure myself. I didn’t do anything with her, so I am not guilty of adultery. Jesus said if you even look, you have committed adultery in your heart
Jesus said a man shall leave his mother and father and cleave unto his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. Two cannot become one flesh when there is a barrier between them or one is mutilating his flesh or poisoning it with chemicals. That makes a mockery of the commands of God and marriage itself
Contraception in marriage is committing fornication in your heart. It does not lead to responsible marital behavior

Instead of a responsible man proposing to a woman, will you be my wife? It’s now hey babe, I am a beast and cannot control myself, can I get my jollies on you? Is it any wonder men are no longer respected and divorce is rampant in society? What woman would want to be married to that?

It was only when I submitted to Church teaching and repented of contraception that I received the grace of God in real time. I have a much better relationship with my wife and children as I am responsible, not demanding

Sex is not a need, it is a desire. Desire must be brought under control of the will. That is what mortification of the flesh means. God will help you to do it, if you ask Him. If you don’t ask, you will not receive. If you think that you do not need to ask for chastity, you will become as the Church in Laodicea. You will say I am rich and have need of nothing staying lukewarm. You know what the Bible says God does about that
Buy gold tried in the fire, don’t stay lukewarm, contraception is sin

Lol you keep diverting from the actual discussion with examples of prostitutes and sexual intercourse OUTSIDE of marriage. Can we please keep the discussion on topic because at no time was this discussion ever about sex outside of marriage. So you claim that we’re not supposed to indulge in pleasures of the flesh, why were spices, seasonings, annd salt added to foods during the biblical times? How is that not indulgence in the pleasures of the flesh?

 

[BNR32FAN]

I said we can speak about it. Start a thread and present facts. It is not appropriate here

Lol you’re the OP of the thread and the only person who can oppose discussing it here. It sounds to me like you just don’t want to admit the truth.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Umm I just quoted Paul specifically stating that some people were too weak to overcome sexual desires.

“But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭7‬:‭9‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

It says let them marry, not let them and teach them to fornicate. Marriage has nothing to do with contraception, and I told you that the Word of God speaks of marriage as the two becoming one flesh. Not in fantasy but in reality. Contraception deliberately destroys that possibility, therefore it is contrary to the word of God and sinful.

Beginning in the 20th and into the 21st century, we have lost sight of what marriage is to be. It is the two become one flesh, not a mutual masturbation contract. When a man uses contraception, he ceases to be a husband as he retains his flesh to himself. He becomes rather a dynamicallly inserted libido delighting object, when she tires of him, she will throw him away as he is not her husband. That is why so many false marriages and in divorce. The two are never joined in the first place. Even if they have children, the contracepting couple retains the separatist mindset. They may deny it with their lips, but they know it in their hearts.

The word of God commands a man to love his wife as Christ loved the Church, and for wives to be subject to their husband. Contraception is a deliberate act of non-subjection by a woman and a denial of love by a man in favor of his brute desires.
What man can love someone that is not subject to him? He may try it for a while, but then he recognizes the farse. He will either retreat to his man cave and pretend to be righteous or he will seek comfort in another
What woman can be subject to some one that does not love her? He treats her as a mere pleasure outlet. She may endure it for a while but will then feel used and degraded, and when the man begins to use the word of God to demand she be subject to him, she may begin to resent God also.

I am not making something up. I have lived it and have seen it all around me also. It was not until that I submitted to the full authority of Church teaching and repented of contraception that the grace of God entered my soul and I was able to properly love my wife. She notices the difference

Lust is easily conquered once you submit to the teaching of chastity. I hear men complain that the urge for sex is too powerful. I say oh yeah? Next time you find yourself lusting after a woman, ask your self, do I want to have a child with this woman? If the answer is no, then there is no godly reason for thinking about sex with her. Keep resisting the devil and it gets easier to say no

 

[jas3]

Yes you did and I apologize but the Hebrew word that is translated to “marriage” in Genesis 38:8 Yabam isn’t about just any marriage, it’s specific to the marriage of a deceased brother’s widow for the purpose of providing her with an heir. That’s the only context it’s ever used in, in the scriptures.

So you agree that they were married?

 

[BNR32FAN]

It says let them marry, not let them and teach them to fornicate. Marriage has nothing to do with contraception, and I told you that the Word of God speaks of marriage as the two becoming one flesh. Not in fantasy but in reality. Contraception deliberately destroys that possibility, therefore it is contrary to the word of God and sinful.

Beginning in the 20th and into the 21st century, we have lost sight of what marriage is to be. It is the two become one flesh, not a mutual masturbation contract. When a man uses contraception, he ceases to be a husband as he retains his flesh to himself. He becomes rather a dynamicallly inserted libido delighting object, when she tires of him, she will throw him away as he is not her husband. That is why so many false marriages and in divorce. The two are never joined in the first place. Even if they have children, the contracepting couple retains the separatist mindset. They may deny it with their lips, but they know it in their hearts.

The word of God commands a man to love his wife as Christ loved the Church, and for wives to be subject to their husband. Contraception is a deliberate act of non-subjection by a woman and a denial of love by a man in favor of his brute desires.
What man can love someone that is not subject to him? He may try it for a while, but then he recognizes the farse. He will either retreat to his man cave and pretend to be righteous or he will seek comfort in another
What woman can be subject to some one that does not love her? He treats her as a mere pleasure outlet. She may endure it for a while but will then feel used and degraded, and when the man begins to use the word of God to demand she be subject to him, she may begin to resent God also.

I am not making something up. I have lived it and have seen it all around me also. It was not until that I submitted to the full authority of Church teaching and repented of contraception that the grace of God entered my soul and I was able to properly love my wife. She notices the difference

Lust is easily conquered once you submit to the teaching of chastity. I hear men complain that the urge for sex is too powerful. I say oh yeah? Next time you find yourself lusting after a woman, ask your self, do I want to have a child with this woman? If the answer is no, then there is no godly reason for thinking about sex with her. Keep resisting the devil and it gets easier to say no

You really do need to learn the definition of the word fornicate because husband and wife can’t actually commit fornication with each other. And I don’t require my wife to be subject to me, we are equal partners and her opinion is just as important as my own.

Well the grace of God entered me before I was married so I don’t know if maybe you weren’t a Christian before you were married but I was. So I contraceptives really wasn’t a factor in my salvation and I highly doubt it had anything to do with your’s as well because it has nothing to do with it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So you agree that they were married?

No I think that the commandment for a man to marry his brother’s widow if she doesn’t have a heir predated when it was recorded in Deuteronomy since the term for it already existed in Genesis, just like Cain’s murder of Able was already a sin before the commandment against murder was recorded in the scriptures.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

You really do need to learn the definition of the word fornicate because husband and wife can’t actually commit fornication with each other. And I don’t require my wife to be subject to me, we are equal partners and her opinion is just as important as my own.

Well the grace of God entered me before I was married so I don’t know if maybe you weren’t a Christian before you were married but I was. So I contraceptives really wasn’t a factor in my salvation and I highly doubt it had anything to do with your’s as well because it has nothing to do with it.

No sir, I think it is you that needs to do the learning
Contraception is not taught in the Bible. It was conceived in the minds of men
You also need to learn how subjection is defined

It is not something that can be demanded. My command is to love my wife and give myself for her. She can only voluntarily subject herself to me. If she does not, then she is my rival not my helpmate. That is not a marriage. It is the modern lie, but it is not a biblical marriage.

I need my wife to stay home and take care of the children. It is crucial that children bond with their mother for at least the first five years of their lives. If both parents work then the children are abandoned to daycare and put at risk for behavioral and psychological problems

I don’t tell my wife to be subject to me, God does. If she refuses, the she is in rebellion to God not me. I will not force her compliance, but her rebellion renders sexual intercourse all but impossible. There is no mutual giving and sex is reduced to a sterile pleasure ritual like brute beasts. That is not what God teaches us about marriage. Your equal partnership marriage is not taught in scripture. Do you think that you have the right to ignore God and live in opposition to His word?

 

[BNR32FAN]

No sir, I think it is you that needs to do the learning
Contraception is not taught in the Bible. It was conceived in the minds of men

This is a completely absurd mentality. Pizza isn’t taught in the Bible, it was conceived in the minds of men. Turtleneck sweaters aren’t in the Bible, they were conceived in the minds of men. Paper clips aren’t taught in the Bible they were conceived in the minds of men. Lightbulbs not in the Bible, from the minds of men. And since we’re on the subject I find it quite ironic that a Roman Catholic believer would make such a claim that our beliefs must be found in the Bible because you know for a fact that is not how the Roman Church formulates its doctrines. Inquisitions, not in the Bible but from the minds of men. Purgatory, not in the Bible from the minds of men. Mary’s perpetual virginity, not in the Bible, from the minds of men. I mean we can go thru an infinite number of things that are not taught in the Bible that you use on a daily basis that you wouldn’t consider to be evil in nature like the device you’re accessing this website on for example that I’ve already pointed out and we can also go thru numerous Roman Church teachings that are also not taught in the Bible, that we conceived in the minds of men, some of which I’ve mentioned above. So you need to really stop and think about the implications of your statement that I quoted above and contemplate whether there’s actually any truth to what you said there or not.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

This is a completely absurd mentality. Pizza isn’t taught in the Bible, it was conceived in the minds of men. Turtleneck sweaters aren’t in the Bible, they were conceived in the minds of men. Paper clips aren’t taught in the Bible they were conceived in the minds of men. Lightbulbs not in the Bible, from the minds of men. And since we’re on the subject I find it quite ironic that a Roman Catholic believer would make such a claim that our beliefs must be found in the Bible because you know for a fact that is not how the Roman Church formulates its doctrines. Inquisitions, not in the Bible but from the minds of men. Purgatory, not in the Bible from the minds of men. Mary’s perpetual virginity, not in the Bible, from the minds of men. I mean we can go thru an infinite number of things that are not taught in the Bible that you use on a daily basis that you wouldn’t consider to be evil in nature like the device you’re accessing this website on for example that I’ve already pointed out and we can also go thru numerous Roman Church teachings that are also not taught in the Bible, that we conceived in the minds of men, some of which I’ve mentioned above. So you need to really stop and think about the implications of your statement that I quoted above and contemplate whether there’s actually any truth to what you said there or not.

It’s not absurd when marriage and chastity are taught in the Bible. You choose not to follow God’s teaching for whatever reason.

Are you telling me that you are going to appear before the judgement seat of Christ and tell Him, the Alpha and Omega, the one who was, is now and is coming, the Almighty, that His instructions are not good enough for you?
You had to invent a work around so that you can hold onto your flesh and try to claim to follow Christ at the same time? Even though He directly tells you that to follow Him, you must deny yourself and whoever saves His life will lose it, but he who loses his life for my sake , the same will save it. Also, love not your lives unto death and you will be given a crown of life.

It seems to me that you have not thought your position through and are relying on your own understanding, even though scripture clearly tells you not to lean on your own understanding.

The promise of the Holy Spirit was given to the Apostles, not every believer at Pentecost, and the Church had to go through many periods of Apostolic discipline. The teaching of the Apostles was handed down and the charism of the Holy Spirit was passed by the laying on of hands intact until today, as Christ has promised I will never leave you nor forsake you. The Catholic Church is the body of Christ by the promise of the same Holy Spirit.

If you are going to make accusations against her, I would think that you would at least be following Jesus’ teaching first rather than discarding it

Sir, I have thought my position through. I lean not to my own understanding but whole heartedly obey Christ and His Church. His yoke is easy and His burden light. I say with the strongest warning possible that you repent and do the same. You need to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, not ignore it until it is too late

The Catholic Church recognizes all baptized believers as Christian, so the moderators should note that I am not accusing you of not being Christian. I merely point out that you are not following Christ’s teaching on marriage and seem to be implying that you do not have to do so

That does not seem like a good idea. I don’t think you know what you are doing, May God have mercy on you

 

[BNR32FAN]

Are you telling me that you are going to appear before the judgement seat of Christ and tell Him, the Alpha and Omega, the one who was, is now and is coming, the Almighty, that His instructions are not good enough for you?

As I’ve already established Jesus never gave any instructions pertaining to contraceptives. If He had then we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The promise of the Holy Spirit was given to the Apostles, not every believer at Pentecost, and the Church had to go through many periods of Apostolic discipline. The teaching of the Apostles was handed down and the charism of the Holy Spirit was passed by the laying on of hands intact until today, as Christ has promised I will never leave you nor forsake you. The Catholic Church is the body of Christ by the promise of the same Holy Spirit.

The promise of the Holy Spirit wasn’t given to everyone?

“Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2‬:‭38‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Was Peter preaching to the apostles in Acts 2? I mean I can’t even post all the passages of scripture that proves this idea wrong.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Sir, I have thought my position through. I lean not to my own understanding but whole heartedly obey Christ and His Church. His yoke is easy and His burden light. I say with the strongest warning possible that you repent and do the same. You need to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, not ignore it until it is too late

And yet the apostolic churches schismed into three different churches. The Roman church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and the Oriental Church, so there is that. And before you get into apostolic succession I’d have to point out that Rome wasn’t the only church established by Peter. The church in Antioch was also established by Peter before the church in Rome which are no longer in communion with one another. I know this because I study church history, rather than just believing whatever someone tells me to believe.

The Catholic Church recognizes all baptized believers as Christian, so the moderators should note that I am not accusing you of not being Christian. I merely point out that you are not following Christ’s teaching on marriage and seem to be implying that you do not have to do so

 

[boughtwithaprice]

As I’ve already established Jesus never gave any instructions pertaining to contraceptives. If He had then we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

He gave instructions regarding marriage and chastity Those you ignore to use your work around contraceptives

 

[boughtwithaprice]

The promise of the Holy Spirit wasn’t given to everyone?

“Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2‬:‭38‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Was Peter preaching to the apostles in Acts 2? I mean I can’t even post all the passages of scripture that proves this idea wrong.

The promise of the Holy Spirit was given to everyone to join the Body of Christ. But not everyone is given the same gift in equal measures
There are some apostle, some prophets, some teachers all for the building up of the Body of Christ. Authority is given to the apostles, not everyone. It seems now that everyone is assuming apostolic authority to themselves, and we get the mess we have today, all kinds of winds of doctrine and “seeker friendly” innovation where the gospel becomes unrecognizable. When Christ returns, will He find faith on the Earth?

 

[boughtwithaprice]

And yet the apostolic churches schismed into three different churches. The Roman church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and the Oriental Church, so there is that. And before you get into apostolic succession I’d have to point out that Rome wasn’t the only church established by Peter. The church in Antioch was also established by Peter before the church in Rome which are no longer in communion with one another. I know this because I study church history, rather than just believing whatever someone tells me to believe.

Some of the Eastern Churches split from the Holy See for political reasons. Political Constantinople was the capital of the empire and Rome was a backwater town that had been overthrown by barbarians. So what ?
There are not two or three Popes. The Church has endured times wear many have laid claim to the title, but the Church is united under the Chair of Peter, the Church God said against which the gates of hell will not prevail. She exists today and She will endure by the promise of Jesus Himself.

A church split is not evidence of no
church ever existing. If it were, then why are you here? Are not Presbyterians not known as the split “P’s”? I say this not to insult you, it merely reveals the flaw in your logic
It also shows the words of Jesus to be true. The same measure you use to judge another will be used to judge you. To delegitimize the Catholic Church because some have split off from her would also delegitimize you. It’s just a bad argument

 

[BNR32FAN]

He gave instructions regarding marriage and chastity Those you ignore to use your work around contraceptives

Jesus never gave any such instructions, you’re just extrapolating what He said and ignoring the context of the message. The message was about divorce not sex. “The two shall become one flesh” isn’t an instruction or a commandment, it’s an illustration of the union between husband and wife. It has nothing to do with contraceptives.