God Evolved

[HitchSlap]

Why would anyone have to recreate the murder in order to solve it?

Exactly!

 

[miknik5]

hitchslap. The reason there is change/evolution within a species is because we aren’t perfect and our wotkd in which we live isn’t perfect. Both are afffected and effect a change upon the other

 

[miknik5]

Of course. The “Selfish Gene” is a good primer on the subject.

No. An imperfect state. Both within ourselves and our environment


I’m not sure if you are referring to the thought “survival of the fittest” as this selfish gene, but if we were perfect and living in a perfect pure environment change should not occur

Change occurs because we aren’t perfect and because our environment isn’t perfect

And because we aren’t eternal but temporal beings and are affected by change and those changes also affect our world

 

[miknik5]

Exactly!

I edited my post. Because I realize that what you are trying to compare isn’t really the same thing

Evolution/change isn’t something that another living being caused upon another living being. It isn’t an immediate affect to the being like murder would be


It’s two different things

The person was murdered
It’s a crime
We know another individual is the cause for the harm and such a crime needs to be solved

Evolution/change within a species is more the result over time because the effects of our imperfection living in an imperfect world affect that change

 

[HitchSlap]

I edited my post. Because I realize that what you are trying to compare isn’t really the same thing

Evolution/change isn’t something that another living being caused upon another living being. It isn’t an immediate affect to the being like murder would be


It’s two different things

The person was murdered
It’s a crime
We know another individual is the cause for the harm and such a crime needs to be solved

Evolution/change within a species is more the result over time because the effects of our imperfection living in an imperfect world affect that change

Forensic science is used in both cases. A preponderance of evidnece will determine the most likely explanation. To suggest one must “recreate evolution in a lab,” (whatever that means) is ludicrous. ToE is one of the most robust theories we have. So don’t let professional creationists prey on your ignorance and gullibilities just because you are in cahoots with the same god. It’s a big, exciting and mysterious world out there, waiting for otherwise smart people like you to help solve the puzzle. Don’t sell yourself short and buy into the intellectually lazy position of “goddidit.” If your god exists, and our brains have evolved to ponder the mystery, then aren’t you obligated to honor it with your best and honest effort?
2 cents

 

[HitchSlap]

No. An imperfect state. Both within ourselves and our environment


I’m not sure if you are referring to the thought “survival of the fittest” as this selfish gene, but if we were perfect and living in a perfect pure environment change should not occur

Change occurs because we aren’t perfect and because our environment isn’t perfect

And because we aren’t eternal but temporal beings and are affected by change and those changes also affect our world

Perfection is an arbitrary term and has no utility in describing biological processes. ToE is not an ideology, and only serves as the best explanation for the bio distribution and biodiversity of life on this planet.

 

[Ophiolite]

No.

1. I don’t want to rethink that remark

Then I must rethink my estimate of my competence to understand any of your posts. You appeared to be arguing strongly that a discussion of spontaneous generation would be appropriate. Your post here indicates you think the exact opposite.

2. and 3. Exactly. It is not at all obvious that it has anything to do with the topic of this thread which is why I am wondering why we would change topic and start debating spontaneous generation/regeneration to begin with

Three points
1. Please stop using the phrase spontaneous regeneration. It is not a phrase that has ever had, to my knowledge, any place in either side of debates on God, or evolution, or ancillary matters.
2. The OP initiated discussion of spontaneous generation. I suggest, quite vigorously, that the creator of a thread has a good chance of knowing what is on topic for their own thread.
3. Didn't I say this before? I'm not debating spontaneous generation, I am correcting its misuse.

Meanwhile, back at the seminary. You appear to argue that evolution can only occur to entities or things that lack perfection. That seems to be illogical. I can envisage a perfection that is manifest in its fluidity, the ongoing, minute adaptations to a vibrant environment itself a model of perfection, each element in this setting producing a gestalt, interacting perfection. That being the case I feel your argument fails.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Egyptian mummified cats appear to be mainly variants of the same species as modern domestic cats (Felis Sylvestris Catus). It's only been around 4,000 years, so one wouldn't expect to see significant evolutionary changes (unless there was deliberate selective breeding) . Also, interbreeding with wild cats has 'muddied the waters' a little. See Cats of the Pharaohs.

Right - you shouldn't expect to see such things, because that's not how evolution works.

There's no interbreeding between dogs and cats, horses and elephants because they're very different species - they're all placental mammals, but that's about all they have in common; their most recent common ancestor would probably have been around the start of the Paleocene, at least 66 million years ago.

Trees didn't evolve into animals, nor amoeba into mosquitoes, or cockroaches into mice. The common ancestors for all those groups would be way back in time and probably look more like the ameba than anything else. Evolutionary trees can tell you what evolved from which - but it's too big to fit all on one easily readable diagram. But here's a scalable visualisation of the whole caboodle: OneZoom.

Moderns humans (homo sapiens) first appeared around 300-400,000 years ago. Snakes probably evolved from lizards, some time in the Cretaceous (79 to 145 million years ago), losing their limbs in the process (some snakes still have vestigial limb buds and/or remnants of the pelvic girdle).

Bible stories are not reliable guides to the evolution of species.

I just find it easier to believe that God the designer created it all in six days, and that all the species of plants, insect, and animals were created in their adult states, and that man was actually molded from dirt and had the breath of life breathed into him. But then again, I'm not a scientist, but a normal bloke who believes God is a real Person who talks to me.

 

[Ophiolite]

I just find it easier to believe that God the designer created it all in six days, and that all the species of plants, insect, and animals were created in their adult states, and that man was actually molded from dirt and had the breath of life breathed into him. But then again, I'm not a scientist, but a normal bloke who believes God is a real Person who talks to me.

When I consider the probable character of a personal God (i.e. one who talks to people and takes an interest in them) I find it unlikely that such a God would wish us to take the easy way out. If he has given us curiosity would he not wish us to follow where it leads? If he has given us intelligence would he not wish us to use it? On balance I find taking the easy way out is, in essence, at best a waste of our potential and at worst an immoral act.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I just find it easier to believe that God the designer created it all in six days...

You believe it because it's easier ?

OK; I don't think I've heard that one before.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

When I consider the probable character of a personal God (i.e. one who talks to people and takes an interest in them) I find it unlikely that such a God would wish us to take the easy way out. If he has given us curiosity would he not wish us to follow where it leads? If he has given us intelligence would he not wish us to use it? On balance I find taking the easy way out is, in essence, at best a waste of our potential and at worst an immoral act.

I can understand that you have a very hazy view of God and that you cannot conceive of a personal God who speaks to people. This is because you are living in a neo-pagan society, surrounded by the occult, homosexuality, false cults, muslim mosques, Hindu temples, rampant crime, murders, rapes, prostitution; and all this with churches on every corner in our cities not having much effect on all this. It is no wonder you do not have a clear appreciation of God, because you can't see Him in your community, nor in the churches either.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You believe it because it's easier ?

OK; I don't think I've heard that one before.

It is simple and straightforward, and I like simple and straightforward. Might not work for you, but it sure works for me! Hey, I know when we will find out the true answer to all this. Five minutes after we are dead!

 

[HitchSlap]

It is simple and straightforward, and I like simple and straightforward. Might not work for you, but it sure works for me! Hey, I know when we will find out the true answer to all this. Five minutes after we are dead!

Well nothing in life, including knowledge, ever comes easy.

I do have a question, when this god speaks to you, can other people hear it too, or is it just a voice inside your head?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Well nothing in life, including knowledge, ever comes easy.

I do have a question, when this god speaks to you, can other people hear it too, or is it just a voice inside your head?

This is not about me, so I don't have to answer that question. Some things a personal to me and not even my closest friends would ask that question, so I wouldn't be inclined to answer the question to someone I don't personally know. Anyhow, this thread is not for debating whether people hear God speaking to them nor not.

 

[Ophiolite]

I can understand that you have a very hazy view of God and that you cannot conceive of a personal God who speaks to people. This is because you are living in a neo-pagan society, surrounded by the occult, homosexuality, false cults, muslim mosques, Hindu temples, rampant crime, murders, rapes, prostitution; and all this with churches on every corner in our cities not having much effect on all this. It is no wonder you do not have a clear appreciation of God, because you can't see Him in your community, nor in the churches either.

It is a bit presumptuous of you to imagine you would know what impacted upon my conception of God. (For the record, you have it wrong.)

I have no difficulty at all imagining a personal God who speaks to people. I'm sufficiently at ease with the concept that I have the occassional conversation with her myself.

Any haziness you detected in my post was an effort to be polite and respectful. I have no meaningful doubt that a personal God would find your choice of taking the easy way out to be abhorrent.

I note that you studiously avoided answering either of my questions. Perhaps you thought they were rhetorical. Perhaps you were just taking the easy way out.

On this occassion I shall overlook the offensive lumping of muslim mosques and Hindu temples with murder and rape. In the UK I think you could potentially be prosecuted for hate-crime for such an outburst.

It would be nice if we could discuss this in a sober fashion. I look forward to your response, preferably without presumptions, or distasteful inferences about other religions.

Respectfully yours,
Ophiolite

 

[HitchSlap]

This is not about me, so I don't have to answer that question. Some things a personal to me and not even my closest friends would ask that question, so I wouldn't be inclined to answer the question to someone I don't personally know. Anyhow, this thread is not for debating whether people hear God speaking to them nor not.

Then why mention god speaks to you?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Then why mention god speaks to you?

To emphasize my belief that there is a personal God who is real and who designed this world and everything in it. I can't explain how God speaks to me, but when He does, I know it. Any committed, faithful Christian will tell you the same thing. It is not an audible voice (although some have heard Him that way), nor a voice in the head. When the day comes that God speaks to you personally, you will know all about it - that it is Him who is speaking to you and no one else.

 

[HitchSlap]

To emphasize my belief that there is a personal God who is real and who designed this world and everything in it. I can't explain how God speaks to me, but when He does, I know it. Any committed, faithful Christian will tell you the same thing. It is not an audible voice (although some have heard Him that way), nor a voice in the head. When the day comes that God speaks to you personally, you will know all about it - that it is Him who is speaking to you and no one else.

Sounds good.

 

[CherubRam]

Contrary evidence to Evolution is ignored.

Good Info: Is Carbon-Dating Accurate? | Radiometric dating | Rate of Decay | Clock Reset | Closed System

 

[CherubRam]

Dino bone not identified as such were carbon dated between 6000 to 16000 years old.

Great is the faith of the Atheist!